Hysterocrates hercules Research
- Thread starter Paul Osullivan
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I regret that I can't post detailed pictures because I don't have a microscope.
It's hard to understand, but please understand.
I have imported well over 100 Hysterocrates this year.
Most of them were H. gigas and H. crassipes, with a small amount of H. laticeps mixed in.
I think that my H. hercules, which is the same as your H. hercules, will probably not come in the future.
When I heard the details of when it came, it is highly likely that it was finally completed when the Polypteridae, an ancient fish popular in Japan, was imported.
Basically, tarantulas come through the same import route as reptiles, so this difference may be the reason why there is no main distribution.
And one more thing.
The large H. hercules male cub I showed you earlier matured the other day.
Surprisingly, it is only about half the size of the parent male, and looks very similar to the male specimen you have.
Does this mean that you also have a large individual? I think.
I look forward to your future posts.
To overseas friends who have the same hobby.
It's hard to understand, but please understand.
I have imported well over 100 Hysterocrates this year.
Most of them were H. gigas and H. crassipes, with a small amount of H. laticeps mixed in.
I think that my H. hercules, which is the same as your H. hercules, will probably not come in the future.
When I heard the details of when it came, it is highly likely that it was finally completed when the Polypteridae, an ancient fish popular in Japan, was imported.
Basically, tarantulas come through the same import route as reptiles, so this difference may be the reason why there is no main distribution.
And one more thing.
The large H. hercules male cub I showed you earlier matured the other day.
Surprisingly, it is only about half the size of the parent male, and looks very similar to the male specimen you have.
Does this mean that you also have a large individual? I think.
I look forward to your future posts.
To overseas friends who have the same hobby.
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Paul Osullivan
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Hey Ooya, Bless you! You have done really well to photograph all the body parts of the shed exuvia. It's quite tricky for me to see any accutate way to compare yours to the spider I have. You have almost got the comparison of legs 1 and 4 right, but you need to cut leg 4 or leg 1 from the sternum shell and place them next to each other (like I have done below) and MOST IMPORTANTLY make sure the LEGS are FLAT. So you can see the difference in length. I know it's very fiddly and your spider shell may have set into this contorted shape and would be now impossible to do now, but it's the only way to compare the difference in leg lengths. This is a very good comparison to make to see if you have Hercules, so could you try to flatten the legs? As you can see in Hercules leg 4 is very short and its very likely every other Hysterocrates species have a much longer leg 4 compared to the 1st as Pocock highlighted this distinct/ unique feature among Hysterocrates..
Also I can see you have took photos of the inside of the leg. There is likely to be some unique characters here, but in the case of many spiders more distinct features can be seen on the inside of the coxa and trochanter. Here is shown the area needed to be examined and I have 'X'd out the femur and patella area as this is less detailed and not the area we want to examine. It would be good to have this area microscoped, prehaps a scool or collage can help you? It would be good to see pictures of this area then I could compare to spiders I have already examined..
Oh no, the males of hercules matured at not a particularly big size, when compared to other Hysterocrates species. I will post in the future new mature males, but I suspect there will be some bigger males, but nature isn't always predictable! Thanks Ooya, I hope to see some more pictures if thats possible and it would be best to show the trochanter and coxa in microscopic detail to narrow down the species you have. I appreciate your time and enthusiasm you share,
Also I can see you have took photos of the inside of the leg. There is likely to be some unique characters here, but in the case of many spiders more distinct features can be seen on the inside of the coxa and trochanter. Here is shown the area needed to be examined and I have 'X'd out the femur and patella area as this is less detailed and not the area we want to examine. It would be good to have this area microscoped, prehaps a scool or collage can help you? It would be good to see pictures of this area then I could compare to spiders I have already examined..
Oh no, the males of hercules matured at not a particularly big size, when compared to other Hysterocrates species. I will post in the future new mature males, but I suspect there will be some bigger males, but nature isn't always predictable! Thanks Ooya, I hope to see some more pictures if thats possible and it would be best to show the trochanter and coxa in microscopic detail to narrow down the species you have. I appreciate your time and enthusiasm you share,
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thank you for your reply.
As you said, I separated the 1st leg and arranged it with the 4th leg.
It looks just like yours.
I think I'll take a look at the rotator of the 1st step leg later with a microscope.
I will post the photos here again.
I took a lot of pictures because I thought that there was information other than the content in the paper that could be used as a basis for discrimination.
I'm sure if you or I are a big fan of this spider, you'll find something even better than the previous papers!
As you said, I separated the 1st leg and arranged it with the 4th leg.
It looks just like yours.
I think I'll take a look at the rotator of the 1st step leg later with a microscope.
I will post the photos here again.
I took a lot of pictures because I thought that there was information other than the content in the paper that could be used as a basis for discrimination.
I'm sure if you or I are a big fan of this spider, you'll find something even better than the previous papers!
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Paul Osullivan
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That's really interesting to see Ooya. The legs do apear alike to to mine for sure I think Laticeps would have a longer leg 4 as it always looks a bit longer than in Hercules. That's the correct area you have photographed. It's hard to tell the details, but the area highlighted here would be good to identify the spider. Prehaps if you can send this to be examined?
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Paul Osullivan
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Hey Ooya, Just wondering if you was able to microscope the highlighted area? Prehaps you could send it to Volker von Wirth @ Theraposid research team in Germany? Do you have any pictures of your spider?thank you for your reply.
As you said, I separated the 1st leg and arranged it with the 4th leg.
It looks just like yours.
I think I'll take a look at the rotator of the 1st step leg later with a microscope.
I will post the photos here again.
I took a lot of pictures because I thought that there was information other than the content in the paper that could be used as a basis for discrimination.
I'm sure if you or I are a big fan of this spider, you'll find something even better than the previous papers!
Paul Osullivan
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That's good to hear Ooya, I look forward to seeing what the pattern will be..Hi Paul
Please wait a little more.
I think I'll buy a microscope and check it out!
Paul Osullivan
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Hi Ooya, I think for the coxa of leg one, a closer, clearer image is needed to be able to compare to some of Andrew's drawings. I guess you can see in these pictures the detail needed to see the distinguishing hairs..
Ok yea the eye pictures are clearer. I have learnt from a number of experts that the eye arrangements aren't of good use in identification unfortunately. Andrew adds that a lot of the spiders he examined had a lot of variation in the eye arrangements within species. However the area in front of the eyes that is Known as the 'clypeus' has much more of a use in identification of a spider. Here's some of my research that shows the small but important differences of this 'clypeus' area, the distance and shape differ in every species as you can see.. (it's best practice to take a picture from directly above to compare the distance of the eyes to the edge of the carapace). It would be good to see pictures from directly above (as highlighted with the green arrows here) to see if it's more alike to Hercules or Laticeps in its form..
Ok yea the eye pictures are clearer. I have learnt from a number of experts that the eye arrangements aren't of good use in identification unfortunately. Andrew adds that a lot of the spiders he examined had a lot of variation in the eye arrangements within species. However the area in front of the eyes that is Known as the 'clypeus' has much more of a use in identification of a spider. Here's some of my research that shows the small but important differences of this 'clypeus' area, the distance and shape differ in every species as you can see.. (it's best practice to take a picture from directly above to compare the distance of the eyes to the edge of the carapace). It would be good to see pictures from directly above (as highlighted with the green arrows here) to see if it's more alike to Hercules or Laticeps in its form..
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Paul Osullivan
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Hi friend！
I've tried to collect some since then.
Comparing it with your H. hercules, I was able to determine that it is probably the same species.
I'm not as good at putting things together as you are, but I hope I can send some information to Japan as well.
I'm begging you, but at that time, would it be okay if I introduce your photo and the URL of this wonderful page?
Of course, we will include your name as well.
Here are some I've put together.
This is a comparison with your H. hercules.
I'm surprised it's still the same.
I'm pretty sure this is the same species.
I've tried to collect some since then.
Comparing it with your H. hercules, I was able to determine that it is probably the same species.
I'm not as good at putting things together as you are, but I hope I can send some information to Japan as well.
I'm begging you, but at that time, would it be okay if I introduce your photo and the URL of this wonderful page?
Of course, we will include your name as well.
Here are some I've put together.
This is a comparison with your H. hercules.
I'm surprised it's still the same.
I'm pretty sure this is the same species.
Paul Osullivan
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Hi Ooya.
I hope you are well. I appreciate you sending me those more detailed pictures. I do appreciate the lengths you go too, into gathering all the comparisons to the drawings. I know it must be difficult with limited resources, but I can see you have tried your best! I would be very happy for you to share anything you want with 'Japan' is that a shop/ institution in Japan or a website?
I have been having a good look through all your pictures and comparing them to mine. There always seems to be something new or previously missed that comes to light and always seems to be quite significant. I agree some of your pictures show many similarities to mine, but there are also many differences in both the male and females as you can see in these comparisons.. I'm starting to think yours are likely to be H. laticeps. There looks to be many indicators that it is this species what do you think? Also a picture of the Leg 4 patella (side view) of yours would also be good to see as you can see Hercules and Laticeps are slightly different and a picture of your spiders leg 1 femur are both good comparisons to make..
I hope you are well. I appreciate you sending me those more detailed pictures. I do appreciate the lengths you go too, into gathering all the comparisons to the drawings. I know it must be difficult with limited resources, but I can see you have tried your best! I would be very happy for you to share anything you want with 'Japan' is that a shop/ institution in Japan or a website?
I have been having a good look through all your pictures and comparing them to mine. There always seems to be something new or previously missed that comes to light and always seems to be quite significant. I agree some of your pictures show many similarities to mine, but there are also many differences in both the male and females as you can see in these comparisons.. I'm starting to think yours are likely to be H. laticeps. There looks to be many indicators that it is this species what do you think? Also a picture of the Leg 4 patella (side view) of yours would also be good to see as you can see Hercules and Laticeps are slightly different and a picture of your spiders leg 1 femur are both good comparisons to make..
Paul Osullivan
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thank you for your reply!
Certainly there were some questions like this, but in fact these may be the category of individual differences.
I can't think of any other kind of H. hercules that matches yours and my H. hercules.
A similar thing was seen here in many leg contrasts.
It appeared to be roughly consistent with that of H. hercules.
I plan to use the photos on my blog.
It's not academic, it's just a part of my hobby, but thanks to you, I think I'll be able to write interesting content.
One more thing about males, the last molted male this year is small and very similar to your specimen.
However, this is a child of a large individual of my own specimen.
Perhaps this species may change its shape depending on its size.
This is seen in stag beetles, but it is the first time when it comes to spiders.
Certainly there were some questions like this, but in fact these may be the category of individual differences.
I can't think of any other kind of H. hercules that matches yours and my H. hercules.
A similar thing was seen here in many leg contrasts.
It appeared to be roughly consistent with that of H. hercules.
I plan to use the photos on my blog.
It's not academic, it's just a part of my hobby, but thanks to you, I think I'll be able to write interesting content.
One more thing about males, the last molted male this year is small and very similar to your specimen.
However, this is a child of a large individual of my own specimen.
Perhaps this species may change its shape depending on its size.
This is seen in stag beetles, but it is the first time when it comes to spiders.
Paul Osullivan
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Oh that's good to hear! I will look forward to reading yor blog and I'm glad my research has helped you achieve your goals.. That male looks very nice too!
I think sometimes individual differences can be present, but also to have so many things different, for me I would say would be an indicator of a separate species. I do understand what you mean also, that the bigger spider that may have for an example more or less hair on the chelicerae, but if it's a feature common to every larger and smaller spider I have, then I would say it's not so much an individual difference, but more a species difference if your larger and smaller spiders all have the thicker setae on the chelicerae and all of mine don't, same with those different features seen in the male, we see them in the different sizes (pictured below) of my mature males and the two larger ones both have those differences seen and not just on that one individual, (larger body, plumose setae around carapace, shorter thinner leg 4, lighter abdomen, different shape to front of carapace).Prehaps take some close up pictures of your fresh male (that looks a similar size to my 5/6 inch male) and we can compare them to see if they look alike or different..
I did see something about huntsman spiders, in that an examination of the spermathecae and male bulb were enough to determine a species, but the researcher wasn't sure if this applied to tarantulas, but I would think it would. I guess it would be good to send your shed exuvias to have them examined or I could compare them to the spiders I have.
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See this thread for cross-talk about this genus:
Hysterocrates sp. "Niger Delta"....cf. hercules ???
Take a look at this beauty! Hysterocrates sp. "Niger Delta Note some observations that are different from the last 10 yrs. of West African imports of Hysterocrates species which as mainly been of H. gigas, H. crassipes, and H. laticeps. 1) Coloration is much lighter. 2) Legs 4 are only...
arachnoboards.com
Paul Osullivan
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Hey Ooya, I hope you are well and I look forward to reading your blog/ research. I was hoping you could make this comparison that does seem to be very unique amongst Hysterocrates. Are you able to compare legs one and four, alike to what I have done here, to see how the patella and tibia compare on each leg of your spider?
Hi friend
Long time no see.
The article is ready so please take a look.
And above all, thank you for your cooperation.
However, the content is aimed at people who have little knowledge of this hobby in Japan, so I don't know if you will find it interesting
https://bugslife.jimdofree.com/2022/12/27/%E3%83%98%E3%83%A9%E3%82%AF%E3%83%AC%E3%82%B9%E3%83 %90%E3%83%96%E3%83%BC%E3%83%B3%E3%81%A8%E3%81%AF/
As you said, I will try to compare the 1st step and the 4th step in the future.
Recently my H. hercules molted.
It is quite large, reaching 7.5 cm in length, but I think it is still growing.
In addition, I think that there are more physical differences and individual differences in males of this kind than I imagined.
I think I'll leave it here again when my opinion is a little more organized!
Long time no see.
The article is ready so please take a look.
And above all, thank you for your cooperation.
However, the content is aimed at people who have little knowledge of this hobby in Japan, so I don't know if you will find it interesting
https://bugslife.jimdofree.com/2022/12/27/%E3%83%98%E3%83%A9%E3%82%AF%E3%83%AC%E3%82%B9%E3%83 %90%E3%83%96%E3%83%BC%E3%83%B3%E3%81%A8%E3%81%AF/
As you said, I will try to compare the 1st step and the 4th step in the future.
Recently my H. hercules molted.
It is quite large, reaching 7.5 cm in length, but I think it is still growing.
In addition, I think that there are more physical differences and individual differences in males of this kind than I imagined.
I think I'll leave it here again when my opinion is a little more organized!