Hysterocrates hercules Research

[Paul Osullivan]

Nice, ok yea that does look very similar! The other one did confuse me! That looked a lot like h. crassipes..

I can see many similarities in the sternum of this one! although H. hercules has a flat sternum mound, prehaps there is some debris on the molt? maybe take a close up picture of this area and some more pictures of the spider if possible.. we will get to the bottom of this!

 

[ooya]

Hi friend︎
Sorry for being late!
I took a zoomed photo as you told me!
Do you have any other photos you need?

 

[Paul Osullivan]

Hi friend︎ View attachment 393151
Sorry for being late!
I took a zoomed photo as you told me!
Do you have any other photos you need?

View attachment 393152

Hi friend︎ View attachment 393151
Sorry for being late!
I took a zoomed photo as you told me!
Do you have any other photos you need?

View attachment 393152

Hi Ooya, No worries. Thanks for the picture! The sternum mound now looks to not have a partiing in the middle. I have put the original photo you took of your spider and layered it on top of the two species I have analysed (Laticeps and Hercules) Too me it does look like your spider looks to be Hysterocrates Laticeps. Leg 4 of your spiders did look a little longer than the short legged hercules. Also (if you study the photo) on the sternum area you can see many similarities to the laticeps species. If you like to send me an exuvia, I could examine this for you, just to be sure, but it looks likely you have H. laticeps.

 

[ooya]

I'm sorry!
I misunderstood that I needed the part in the translation.
The previous photo has an angle.
This is a picture taken again on a flat surface.
My individual is still a young female, so it may be more difficult to understand than an adult female.

Photo taken again↓

I am looking forward to future growth as I am a female who is still growing slowly

retaken photo↓

 

[Paul Osullivan]

I'm sorry!
I misunderstood that I needed the part in the translation.
The previous photo has an angle.
This is a picture taken again on a flat surface.
My individual is still a young female, so it may be more difficult to understand than an adult female.
View attachment 393302
Photo taken again↓
View attachment 393303
I am looking forward to future growth as I am a female who is still growing slowly

retaken photo↓
View attachment 393310

View attachment 393312

View attachment 393313

Thanks ooya! I would really like a exuvia to examine for you. Would you be able to send one to me? (U.K). It's difficult as every picture shows something new, but I have studied the Laticeps and Hercules species closely and I think you have H. Laticeps. They do look very alike with some small give aways. The color in the picture you sent is definitely the lighter brown color of H. laticeps. H. hercules is darker and more redder in color. The femur of leg four also looks a little longer and slimmer, where as H. Hercules has a shorter thicker femur, similarities also can be can be seen in leg 1. Also the foveal groove in H. laticeps is more a '(' shape that I can just see on your spider, but Hercules has more a 'C' shape. I could well be wrong as they are from pictures, but I have a good idea of how these spiders look and the small differences to look for and do believe you have H. laticeps.

 

[ooya]

hello！
I think the individual I have that seems to be H. hercules is the same as the one you have.
Because the appearance is exactly what it is.
I've seen a lot of H. laticeps to get this hercules, but this individual looked completely different.
And with H. laticeps, it never grew so big (Photo 2).
She is still growing.
The body color of this spider is different before and after molting, so there is a difference ...
If it looks like H. laticeps, I think it's because I'm not good at photography.
I will leave another photo.


H. hercules female when young↓

H. laticeps female when young↓


I'm not good at photography, so it may be difficult to understand.

 

[Paul Osullivan]

I'm not good at photography, so it may be difficult to understand.

Oh ok, thanks! Yes I can see the spider a lot more clearly in those pictures and I agree you do look to have the Hercules species! The foveal groove on the Carapace is a big give away feature, along with other small but significant details and differences. I would love to know where they were collected or was it just on the Cameroon shipment? Would you be able to send me a exuvia skin to examine? I have recently bred this species and I could send you some of the offspring for you to breed to your spiders also, but I would like to examine your exuvia skin, so its an exact match and to avoid crossbreeding! I'm pleased everything is clear now! Congratulations and Thanks!

 

[ooya]

Oh!
I'm glad you said that!
I'm sorry I kept misunderstanding my confusing content.

It may be my translation mistake.
My H. hercules was imported to Japan by Togolese flight, but in reality it was only accumulated in Togo, the correct habitat was collected from Nigeria and Cameroon, and my H. hercules was collected from northeastern Nigeria. I heard that!

I breed these and the juvenile already sees the large head of H. hercules!

I haven't got a macro lens for shooting with my iPhone yet, so if I buy a macro lens, I'll send it again!
thank you friend！

↓H. hercules Baby

 

[Paul Osullivan]

Oh!
I'm glad you said that!
I'm sorry I kept misunderstanding my confusing content.

It may be my translation mistake.
My H. hercules was imported to Japan by Togolese flight, but in reality it was only accumulated in Togo, the correct habitat was collected from Nigeria and Cameroon, and my H. hercules was collected from northeastern Nigeria. I heard that!

I breed these and the juvenile already sees the large head of H. hercules!

I haven't got a macro lens for shooting with my iPhone yet, so if I buy a macro lens, I'll send it again!
thank you friend！

↓H. hercules Baby
View attachment 393539

Oh ok, how very interesting! I obtained my spiders in a plant root although I'm not exactly sure where my spiders came from, they do match exactly it would appear to the taxonomic revison by A.Smith. It looks like your spiders could very well be the same as mine, it would be interesting to see if there are any differences as It's highly likely ours came from different areas. I was fortunate to get both males and females as spiderlings, so I was able to breed them with great success! Was you able to obtain also the males of this species also? And how many spiderlings hatched if so?

 

[ooya]

Hi friend！

When I succeeded in breeding H. hercules, I think the number of eggs laid was about 150.
At the same time, we succeeded in breeding H. gigas, but we were able to confirm that the larvae of H. hercules nest deeper in the ground!
Also, in past articles, many people refer to this genus as a slow-growing spider, but if you can take good care of it, it will mature in about two years.
It's very interesting to keep a juvenile in a family! !!

↓H. hercules male very big size！

↓ pairing

↓Babys

 

[Paul Osullivan]

Hi friend！

When I succeeded in breeding H. hercules, I think the number of eggs laid was about 150.
At the same time, we succeeded in breeding H. gigas, but we were able to confirm that the larvae of H. hercules nest deeper in the ground!
Also, in past articles, many people refer to this genus as a slow-growing spider, but if you can take good care of it, it will mature in about two years.
It's very interesting to keep a juvenile in a family! !!

↓H. hercules male very big size！
View attachment 394561
↓ pairing
View attachment 394563 View attachment 394564
↓Babys
View attachment 394565

Wow that's excellent! You have done really well and I'm very glad you was able to successfully pair them! Yes the male does look extremely large too! I have one more photo request.. can you put a similarly sized (in leg span) female H. laticeps next to your female H. hercules. They should be ok if they are both in a settled mood. I'd like to see if there are any differences or similarities.. That would be great if you can do that.. Thanks friend..

 

[Paul Osullivan]

Hi friend！

When I succeeded in breeding H. hercules, I think the number of eggs laid was about 150.
At the same time, we succeeded in breeding H. gigas, but we were able to confirm that the larvae of H. hercules nest deeper in the ground!
Also, in past articles, many people refer to this genus as a slow-growing spider, but if you can take good care of it, it will mature in about two years.
It's very interesting to keep a juvenile in a family! !!

↓H. hercules male very big size！
View attachment 394561
↓ pairing
View attachment 394563 View attachment 394564
↓Babys
View attachment 394565

Hi Ooya. I hope your well. I have been doing some research on the H. Hercules. I have made some interesting discoveries about how to distinguish them from Hysterocrates laticeps, which are very very alike at all life stages. I have seen again your pictures and they in some ways match hercules and others laticeps, but maybe I have the pictures mixed up that you put. Here these features on the sternum does look noticeably different to my hercules, unless yours are smaller / bigger spiders to mine, but these slight differences are seen.. what do you think? I have also studied your pictures and added some thoughts why I think these are laticeps, but you may have the hercules on other pictures, but I couldn't see the features as well.

 

[ooya]

Hello friends

I also researched a lot about H. hercules and H. laticeps.
Finally, I was able to get a female of H. laticeps.
If you actually compare it, you can see that the individual in the photo I sent before matches what you call H. hercules.
The feature you are talking about is actually correct, but it can be difficult to understand in a photo.

Please actually see it ↓
The two are similar in characteristics when viewed alone.
However, the fact that the 1st leg of your raised content is longer than the 4th leg, the cephalothorax is wider and rounder, and the development of the tibia of the 4th leg is actually different.
And from the growth of molting, as I expected, H. hercules is a large species with a body length of over 7 cm, but H. laticeps is a medium-sized species with a body length of about 6 cm at the largest.
←H. hercules body size 6cm
→H. laticeps body size 6cm

↓H. hercules

↓H. laticeps

The features on the back of the chest may be difficult to see in previous photographs.
Because I was still young as an individual.
I will report here again if I can get a record by molting later

 

[ooya]

My H. hercules pictures body size 7cm

My H. laticeps pictures↓



↓H. hercules

H. laticeps↓

 

[ooya]

We have also found one way to identify the species of the genus Hysterocrates.
It is the shape of a slope when the cephalothorax is viewed from the side.
This is an easy way to distinguish between adults.
In fact, we were able to separate H. gigas and H. crassipes this way.
As a result of looking at a large number, there are subtle individual differences, but there are no major changes, and each type has a slope shape.
So I think this is a good way to tell.
Also, where the eyes are attached was a little different for each type.

 

[Paul Osullivan]

View attachment 411116
Hi Ooya, It has been interesting chatting to you. I appreciate your input and persistence in showing me your spiders and how they are different species. Maybe I was pushing you to show more pictures, proof and evidence to back these claims, as I was pushed myself by some leading taxonomists to show my evidence and to make me more determined to learn more about them and be able to show evidence it is this species through through taxonomic comparisons.

This was the only way to identify these spiders, given we have no collection data. Although "Whitey's" giant 'H. Sp. Nigeria' spiders were found near to the collection site of H. hercules and I'm sure you and myself have the same species and it was just a matter of going through Pocock's then Andrew's descriptions to see that all features match to this species.

It's extremely difficult to see the differences between this species as at first glance you would think they were both the same species in your pictures. However, your hercules (on the left) does show thicker stronger looking front legs, which I have learnt is a good visual feature to identify from, but it's only really noticeable when seen next to another species as seen here. Prehaps it was christened 'hercules' because of these stronger front legs and not it's bigger size, but either way the name suits this species.

The standard coloration of hercules is this nice mahogany / "olive brown" coloration that's also seen on your hercules on the left, where as laticeps tend to be lighter in coloration. The mahogany color becomes noticable long after a molt.

The carapace also looks slightly larger, however I know this difference in size isn't justified in photos with H. hercules being much bigger than laticeps.

A key identifying feature of H. hercules is it's detailed description of leg 4. In this and other pictures of your spider, they do also look to match, (please see my attached research regarding these features).

The sternums also look to match to the corresponding species as expected.

It's difficult to see the slight differences along the shape of the carapace along the side view, but it's something that could be expolored. If I had to choose a way to identify this spider from others, I would look at the thickness of the tibia in comparison to the femur.. H. hercules having a 'tibia much thinner than the femur'. Although this maybe present in other mature Hysterocrates species. Ultimately, lot's of small markers should be used to identify it from other species, although you seem to have done this already. I will hopefully get you a copy of my full research on this species when I'm finished, although I will definitely be printing it (please can you message me your details). It's been a pleasure trying to identify your spiders.. I believe we got there in the end!

 

[CJJon]

Love threads like these.

 

[Paul Osullivan]

Hi Ooya, I have noticed something about your spiders.. although the female does appear to have Hercules features. I'm really struggling to understand this as I have always thought your male didn't look alike to my male. I have included lots of photo comparisons, but I'm 100% sure your 'hercules' male is a laticeps? I'm unsure now if your female is a hercules as she has produced offspring from a different species. Or a hybrid has been created. If you would like to send me any exuvias / specimens to examine then I would gladly do this for you, just to be sure what's happened here..

 

[ooya]

It was a really good opportunity to talk about me and your H. hercules, I learned a lot thanks to the discrimination method you investigated, and my spider is the same H. hercules as you. It was good to know that.
This genus remains undeveloped, and few people in my country are investigating it.
I am very happy to talk to you here.

 

[ooya]

I have taken out a frozen specimen to explain to you my male H. hercules.
At the time of that photo, it was before I met you and it wasn't a polite photo, so I took it again.

Please take a look first.
It can be seen that there is a difference that clearly exceeds the category of individual differences between the spider that seems to be the male of H. hercules that I used for breeding and H. laticeps.
This is a comparison of individuals of the same physique, but it can be seen that there are general differences in leg length, cephalothorax area, body color, etc.
H. hercules needles are certainly similar to H. laticeps.
The papers you referred to: Smith, AM (1990c). Baboon spiders: Tarantulas of Africa and the Middle East. Fitzgerald Publishing, London, pp. 1-142. Hmm.
However, by comparing them in this way, we can see that there are not a few differences.
I can prove that this male is a male individual of you and my H. hercules!

↑H. laticeps ↓H. hercules

←H. hercules →H. laticeps

↑H. laticeps ↓H. hercules

↑H. laticeps ↓H. hercules Ⅳ legs

↓H. laticeps


H. hercules


↓Male transfer needle
It's similar, but I found that the way the root starts and the shape of the sphere are a little different.
←H. hercules →H. laticeps



The sentence was a little strange.
Correct it. ↓

The paper you referred to (a picture of a tarantulas of H. laticeps) is Smith, A. M. (1990c). Baboon spiders: Tarantulas of Africa and the Middle East. Fitzgerald Publishing, London, pp. 1-142.
I think.
I know that this paper contains very little information or pictures of H. hercules.
Then you can see that it certainly confuses male individuals with H. laticeps.
However, it is so different when compared to the actual situation!
I hope this is a good resource for you.