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Five Poecilotheria species - Endangered status and limitations

viper69

ArachnoGod
Old Timer
Joined
Dec 8, 2006
Messages
10,944
I remember reading about how ZOOS stopped breeding San Francisco garter snakes (a endangered species) because they weren't allowed to release their excess stock to the public by the USFW. Read about it here.

http://www.gartersnake.co.uk/mycollection.htm#Thamnophis sirtalis tetrataenia - San Francisco garter snake

Now they are so rare here that the SF zoo had to import them from Europe to start a breeding program:

https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/SAN-FRANCISCO-City-welcomes-home-its-snake-2666478.php

This is the future for Poecilotheria
No surprise that happened from EU. I remember these quite well, they were endangered a while ago, also hard to find back then as well. Gorgeous colors for any snake, esp a garter.
 

Ultum4Spiderz

Arachnoking
Joined
Oct 13, 2011
Messages
2,339
Elephant will be extinct before scientists ever clone a woolly mammoth. Why do captive bread Pets have to suffer because of wild poachers? I bet Sri Lanka dosnt even Care about there wildlife or forests. There concrete jungle western style cities are killing as much forests and spiders as poachers, illegal wranglers . As much as I’d like a pet dodo bird , carnivorous diet will cause most species to die the same way as poor king dodo, king of the pidgeons.

Career politicians write a lot crazy lAws to generate money , does fish & wildlife right this one?
 
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MetalMan2004

Arachnodemon
Joined
Oct 14, 2016
Messages
681
I bet Sri Lanka dosnt even Care about there wildlife or forests. There concrete jungle western style cities are killing as much forests and spiders as poachers, illegal wranglers .
From the government’s official publication regarding this:

“While the current rate of forest loss is much lower than in the previous century, the rate of loss of natural forest is increasing and is anticipated to increase in the future with the country’s emphasis on development and the projected population increase of 800,000 people.”

The Sri Lankan government has infrastucture development plans that this publication says will hurt these species even more. In short, you are correct. Sri Lanka doesn’t seem to care too much.
 

jezzy607

Arachnolord
Old Timer
Joined
Dec 29, 2002
Messages
637
Sri Lanka has several large nature preserves and actually has "eco-tourism". Some of the nature parks are some of the oldest in the world. Believe it or not, Sri Lanka does care about its wildlife! I know three Sri Lankans and all three care about the countries nature...I realize that is a small sample size lol.
 

SonsofArachne

Arachnoangel
Joined
Dec 10, 2017
Messages
957
Sri Lanka has several large nature preserves and actually has "eco-tourism". Some of the nature parks are some of the oldest in the world. Believe it or not, Sri Lanka does care about its wildlife! I know three Sri Lankans and all three care about the countries nature...I realize that is a small sample size lol.
Unfortunately, the only Sri Lankan's who's opinions really matter to the government are ones who stand to make money from development - just like most other countries in the world.
 

Aleetist

Arachnosquire
Joined
Jun 4, 2018
Messages
73
Even though it is not preferable, another option I've heard some breeders do and I'm sure you know too is to let some of the slings cannibalize the others. At the end, there will still be some left but not so many. It would be nicer to find them all homes but I agree with you that that just isn't very realistic.
I had this thought too, or a similar one of culling the eggs. Once you determine it's a viable egg sack just put half the eggs (or more) in the trash and hope the other portion grows up well enough. May be the only way to keep the stock around with interstate selling bans and while painful to do, the best thing that can be done for the species.

This seems kind of backwards. Doesn't it seem like if they isolate the species like this, there will be less breeding, not more? Am I missing something?
Nope, you are correct. That's what the vast majority of this thread is about, just how few of the specimens were WC compared to CB and how eliminating CB sales interstate is going to do the exact opposite of decreasing poaching, and how poaching isn't even really the issue, it's the encroachment on and destruction of their natural habitat that the local government is taking no measures on to protect. It's all just so backwards it's maddening :hurting::hurting::hurting:
 
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Torech Ungol

Arachnosquire
Joined
Jul 8, 2017
Messages
122
Maybe we've just found a new delicacy, akin to caviar.

I'm only halfway joking, because at least that way the eggs won't be wasted. There would just need to be a ton of testing to ensure they're actually safe to eat.
 

lostbrane

Arachnobaron
Arachnosupporter +
Joined
Jul 8, 2018
Messages
518
I just got off the phone with a rep at the DC office of USFWS. She said in regards to the 6 Indian species listed in the original petition that due to a shifting budget/budget constraints/the organization being overloaded, the 6 Indian species will most likely not be addressed for another few years. The only way that it would be sooner would be if the original petitioner (WildEarth Guardians) successfully sued USFWS for not meeting their deadline.
In terms of international conservation efforts, that is apparently handled by International Affairs, and I will try calling them in the near future to see if they have anything planned in terms of helping out the Sri Lankan species.
 
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MintyWood826

Arachnobaron
Joined
Jun 16, 2018
Messages
398
Maybe we've just found a new delicacy, akin to caviar.

I'm only halfway joking, because at least that way the eggs won't be wasted. There would just need to be a ton of testing to ensure they're actually safe to eat.
Lol maybe spiders are actually poisonous as eggs? That would be interesting.

Could eating Sri Lankan Pokie eggs in public be used as a protest? :troll:
 

WildSpider

Arachnobaron
Joined
Jul 14, 2018
Messages
466
I had this thought too, or a similar one of culling the eggs. Once you determine it's a viable egg sack just put half the eggs (or more) in the trash and hope the other portion grows up well enough. May be the only way to keep the stock around with interstate selling bans and while painful to do, the best thing that can be done for the species.
I agree with you on this. Had another idea, I haven't bred Ts but I know that other animals can be bred to produce more offspring or less offspring. I wonder if the same could be done for Ts so they just produce a smaller number of eggs.
 

MetalMan2004

Arachnodemon
Joined
Oct 14, 2016
Messages
681
I think its safe to say that one or more of these species will be going extinct in the wild soon (sounds like smithi will be first). I wonder what happens after that. Does the ESA protection stay in place? Or are hobbyists then allowed to work freely to kickstart captive breeding attempts again without worrying about ESA Laws? It’ll be a sad day when this happens...
 

lostbrane

Arachnobaron
Arachnosupporter +
Joined
Jul 8, 2018
Messages
518
There is nothing stopping hobbyists from breeding the species listed under the ESA, well except a lack of desire and lack of space, and probably a few other things but still. Breeding loans are allowed, so long as the MM doesn’t get sold along with the loan if it is to cross state lines.
 
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MintyWood826

Arachnobaron
Joined
Jun 16, 2018
Messages
398
It would all be fine if these species didn't lay as many eggs as they do. Then there wouldn't be discouraged breeding due to lack of space, money, time, no gain, etc. (I don't know much about breeding these so just guessing here)
 

Aleetist

Arachnosquire
Joined
Jun 4, 2018
Messages
73
There is nothing stopping hobbyists from breeding the species listed under the ESA. Breeding loans are allowed, so long as the MM doesn’t get sold along with the loan if it is to cross state lines.
You are absolutely correct, but without a way to offload the stock which is primarily done through interstate sales, breeding gets a lot trickier, which is why the conversation has switched to letting slings cannibalize each other or culling eggs. There just isn't a large enough of a market within an individual state, especially depending on where you are/population of the state to breed and raise a full egg sack. This will probably discourage a lot of people from breeding them in general, because even with cannibalism/culling, people may still end up with too much stock and not enough room. And as much as we love these creatures at a certain point monetary concerns do come into play for breeders/sellers. I had to dig all over the place for a local breeder in my area and I can't even find online sells for my state. This makes it much trickier for the species to survive in the hobby on top of going extinct in the wild. I can see where good intentions were had, but the people writing these laws clearly don't have an understanding of how many offspring tarantulas have. Similar limitations placed on a variety of animals would be fine and the animals would survive and probably still thrive in the hobby due to their smaller quantities of offspring produced at a single time, but that just isn't the case for a creature that produces 200 offspring in one go.
 
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