Five Poecilotheria species - Endangered status and limitations

cold blood

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It’s sad they want to extinguish this genus

So if you have a sac you can’t sell the slings in your state without a breeders license and documentation? I’m not 100% understanding this I have two of the species I purchased and I bred one before August 30th on breeders loan in my state so am I stuck raising all the slings I have?
you can sell them only within your state...its a violation to sell across state lines.
 

MARC NORMAN

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Aug 29, 2018
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15
They probably want "the professionals" to be breeding the spiders and don't want them to be in the hands of someone who might not know how to take care of them.
 

MetalMan2004

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They probably want "the professionals" to be breeding the spiders and don't want them to be in the hands of someone who might not know how to take care of them.
I’d say that’s spot on (and maybe even a valid point from them). The only issue is that almost no one that that they deem professional enough is breeding them.
 

khil

Arachnobaron
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Oct 5, 2010
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309
They probably want "the professionals" to be breeding the spiders and don't want them to be in the hands of someone who might not know how to take care of them.
The irony is that the hobby was entirely developed and is run by "un" professional people-aka normal, regular guys and gals like the people on this website.

Environmental laws like this not only are totalitarian and a ridiculous invasion of rights, but they almost always end up doing more damage than good to the species.
 

Brad Smith

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Dec 24, 2018
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This really is a shame....I'm having and extremely hard time finding P.subfusca highland or lowland....

If anyone knows someone near me id be willing to drive a little I'm about an hour and a half from Memphis,Tn and 30 minutes from Little Rock,Arkansas

Any males I recieve will be sent off free of charge to be used in breeding projects once they mature.
 

ErinM31

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This really is a shame....I'm having and extremely hard time finding P.subfusca highland or lowland....

If anyone knows someone near me id be willing to drive a little I'm about an hour and a half from Memphis,Tn and 30 minutes from Little Rock,Arkansas

Any males I recieve will be sent off free of charge to be used in breeding projects once they mature.
I think there’s a thread listing tarantula or specifically Poecilotheria dealers in each state. You might also consider a want-to-buy ad.
 

MetalMan2004

Arachnodemon
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Oct 14, 2016
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674
Since this has been enacted for a few months I’ll share my personal experience here.

My male P smithi matured about 3 months ago. Since then I’ve searched high and low for someone with a MF that would be willing to take my male on a loan. I’ve spoken with every dealer I know and can find and some of their friends that they were nice enough to put me in touch with. I’ve put up ads on both forums and Facebook with no response. To date I’ve only found one person, a dealer, with a probably mature female.

Their first response to my email inquiry was that they couldn’t accept the loan across state lines as it was illegal. I sent them FAQs from the gov’t website and the original legislation to show this was incorrect. They said they’d do more research and get back to me.

I checked back with them last week and their response was that they “really don't think there would be a market for this species if we were to breed them.” They ultimately decided they won’t be breeding P smithis because of that.

It’s a pretty big bummer. I’m now assuming that my male will not be a father and if this is representative of the future of these Poecs, things aren’t looking good.
 

SonsofArachne

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I checked back with them last week and their response was that they “really don't think there would be a market for this species if we were to breed them.” They ultimately decided they won’t be breeding P smithis because of that.
This is just what I and a lot of other people on here feared. No dealers going to breed the Sri Lankan species if they can't make a profit. Maybe some private breeders will, but they probably end up having to destroy most of the sac.
 

ErinM31

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Since this has been enacted for a few months I’ll share my personal experience here.

My male P smithi matured about 3 months ago. Since then I’ve searched high and low for someone with a MF that would be willing to take my male on a loan. I’ve spoken with every dealer I know and can find and some of their friends that they were nice enough to put me in touch with. I’ve put up ads on both forums and Facebook with no response. To date I’ve only found one person, a dealer, with a probably mature female.

Their first response to my email inquiry was that they couldn’t accept the loan across state lines as it was illegal. I sent them FAQs from the gov’t website and the original legislation to show this was incorrect. They said they’d do more research and get back to me.

I checked back with them last week and their response was that they “really don't think there would be a market for this species if we were to breed them.” They ultimately decided they won’t be breeding P smithis because of that.

It’s a pretty big bummer. I’m now assuming that my male will not be a father and if this is representative of the future of these Poecs, things aren’t looking good.
That really sucks, I’m sorry to hear that! :( I understand those in the business have to worry about the bottom line but I’m hoping there will be enough hobby enthusiasts.
 
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lostbrane

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I understand those in the business have to worry about the bottom line but I was hoping there would be enough hobby enthusiasts.
I would imagine there are, just this attempt did not work out.

No dealers going to breed the Sri Lankan species if they can't make a profit. Maybe some private breeders will, but they probably end up having to destroy most of the sac.
Well, then that's a shame on their part. I'm trying to put some stuff together/see what I can do personally to help out with this situation and then go from there.
 

MetalMan2004

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Oct 14, 2016
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I would imagine there are, just this attempt did not work out.



Well, then that's a shame on their part. I'm trying to put some stuff together/see what I can do personally to help out with this situation and then go from there.
My experience can’t be used to to reflect the entire hobby, but I would say that I’ve got a fairly large sample size given I contacted the 12 online tarantula dealers I know of, contacted the few major breeders here and on the other forum that’s I know of, contacted a few of their friends that they passed me on to, and posted hookup ads on the forums and multiple FB groups. It sure seems to me that anyone in the hobby who had much visibility at all on the net does not have a mature female P smithi. No mature female P smithi means no mating attempts. I’d say whatever slings that are in the hobby now are the final chance for this species in the hobby. I hope someone manages to get a sac eventually...

The smithi is clearly the most rare of the banned species, so the others may or may not be easier to keep going. I guess we’ll see.

I’m glad you’re helping out however you can.
 

Brad Smith

Arachnopeon
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Dec 24, 2018
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9
This is ridiculous...they think they're helping by passing these laws...but they are really destroying the population of the species even further...
As stated...a professional breeder isn't going to waste time resources and money on a sling that they know will not turn a profit....really pisses me off......anyone have a link to the state by state poecilotheria dealer thread
 

Liquifin

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May 30, 2017
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My experience can’t be used to to reflect the entire hobby, but I would say that I’ve got a fairly large sample size given I contacted the 12 online tarantula dealers I know of, contacted the few major breeders here and on the other forum that’s I know of, contacted a few of their friends that they passed me on to, and posted hookup ads on the forums and multiple FB groups. It sure seems to me that anyone in the hobby who had much visibility at all on the net does not have a mature female P smithi. No mature female P smithi means no mating attempts. I’d say whatever slings that are in the hobby now are the final chance for this species in the hobby. I hope someone manages to get a sac eventually...

The smithi is clearly the most rare of the banned species, so the others may or may not be easier to keep going. I guess we’ll see.

I’m glad you’re helping out however you can.
The issue now really isn't profit anymore for these guys, it's keeping the species from going "extinct" in the US hobby. The Sri Lankan species are barely being bred now, which is so crazy, because the price demands for these guys are rising like 100%. Making a $40 up to $80 for a P. ornata (ridiculous). Breeders need to consider the species and not the profit at this point. The only Sri Lankan species I see now is just P. subfusca, everything else is pretty much rare or extinct in the US.
 

SonsofArachne

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I have sub-adult male and female P. subfusca lowland, but I won't be breeding because 1) I have no experience breeding and don't think a pokie is a good one to start with; and 2) I don't have the time anyway. When the male matures I would be willing to give him to a experienced breeder to keep for some of his (the males) slings (I think that's legal). I might willing to loan the female out to a breeder, I would have to be really comfortable with that situation before I went ahead, however.
 
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ErinM31

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Feb 25, 2016
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This is ridiculous...they think they're helping by passing these laws...but they are really destroying the population of the species even further...
As stated...a professional breeder isn't going to waste time resources and money on a sling that they know will not turn a profit....really pisses me off......anyone have a link to the state by state poecilotheria dealer thread
The thread I’d had in mind was “Forming groups per state para pokies” but nothing of the sort happened within the thread! o_O I was too optimistic... I think I may have actually come across such a listing elsewhere... I will look...

Take a look at the State Tarantula Vender List on tomsbigspiders.com

Since this has been enacted for a few months I’ll share my personal experience here.

My male P smithi matured about 3 months ago. Since then I’ve searched high and low for someone with a MF that would be willing to take my male on a loan. I’ve spoken with every dealer I know and can find and some of their friends that they were nice enough to put me in touch with. I’ve put up ads on both forums and Facebook with no response. To date I’ve only found one person, a dealer, with a probably mature female.

Their first response to my email inquiry was that they couldn’t accept the loan across state lines as it was illegal. I sent them FAQs from the gov’t website and the original legislation to show this was incorrect. They said they’d do more research and get back to me.

I checked back with them last week and their response was that they “really don't think there would be a market for this species if we were to breed them.” They ultimately decided they won’t be breeding P smithis because of that.

It’s a pretty big bummer. I’m now assuming that my male will not be a father and if this is representative of the future of these Poecs, things aren’t looking good.
Did you try contacting Nature’s Exquisite Creatures? They’re in Texas; I found them on the Tom’s Big Spiders list of tarantula vendors by state. One commenter mentioned they had a P. miranda on loan to them. And I see they have P. smithi slings for sale. Seems worth checking out if you haven’t already! :)
 
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ErinM31

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1,146
Hehe that was me. And yeah he already talked to them.
Good to know! Sorry to hear that they weren’t interested in a breeding loan. :( Do you know if they’re planning on continuing to breed these T’s? Just curious — I already sent them a message as I was excited to potentially find an instate pokie dealer and quite nearby too!
 

MetalMan2004

Arachnodemon
Joined
Oct 14, 2016
Messages
674
The issue now really isn't profit anymore for these guys, it's keeping the species from going "extinct" in the US hobby. The Sri Lankan species are barely being bred now, which is so crazy, because the price demands for these guys are rising like 100%. Making a $40 up to $80 for a P. ornata (ridiculous). Breeders need to consider the species and not the profit at this point. The only Sri Lankan species I see now is just P. subfusca, everything else is pretty much rare or extinct in the US.
I cant even find a subfusca....its really sad.
Hobbiests should definitely be focused on the survival of these species in the hobby, but to ask any business (in any industry) to give up their profit for the cause is pretty pointless. Would you give up your paycheck that you buy your groceries with for the cause?

Part of the perceived rarity is still fallout from all of the pre-ban hoarding. I think there are a decent amount of slings out there of most of the Sri Lankan species but no one is selling right now (and for good reason). I even know of a place that is selling P smithi slings. Eventually they’ll all grow up and hopefully they’ll be bred.

The big issue will be that the hobby will have all the proverbial eggs in one basket with these slings. If breeding doesn’t go well with this one large pool of slings once they’re grown then they’re gone forever...
 
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