Five Poecilotheria species - Endangered status and limitations

ErinM31

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Yes I have. They bought them from someone out of state before the ban. No adult females...
It was silly to think that after all the research you’d done that I could have found so quickly a breeder in-state that you missed. :sorry: I still hope that you can find an opportunity to breed him!
 

MetalMan2004

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Oct 14, 2016
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It was silly to think that after all the research you’d done that I could have found so quickly a breeder in-state that you missed. :sorry: I still hope that you can find an opportunity to breed him!
I’d take hundreds of “have you tried this person” posts if only just one of them would on out . I appreciate it :)
 

baconwrappedpikachu

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Dec 18, 2018
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Hobbiests should definitely be focused on the survival of these species in the hobby, but to ask any business (in any industry) to give up their profit for the cause is pretty pointless. Would you give up your paycheck that you buy your groceries with for the cause?
I'm self employed (not in the T industry, sadly) but I certainly understand the business mindset. However, I personally believe that if we, as hobbyists, are expected to put some of our focus on these species' survival, that the business owners and breeders profiting off this industry should want to do so as well.

I don't think it's too high of an expectation to hope that a business would be willing to sacrifice some immediate profit to at least attempt to contribute to conservation efforts. I wouldn't give up my entire paycheck for the cause, but I would happily donate a portion of that paycheck - as well as my time and other resources - to contribute to the conservation of an endangered species... especially if my entire business was in an industry so closely aligned with conservation.

Don't get me wrong -- I'm not saying anything about any of the breeders/businesses in this thread, and I'm sure that most of them already donate their time, money, and other resources to conservation efforts beyond simply breeding and selling Ts. I'm just saying I don't think it's out of the question to hope that they are.

I'm pretty new to the hobby, but I look forward to the day when I am experienced enough to contribute to the procreation and survival of some of these endangered species within the hobby. I agree with you that the rarity (within the hobby) is likely overblown right now, and I am certainly optimistic that these species will still be around in a year or so when I feel experienced enough to get some poecs.
 

BasedGod

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Is it possible to reintroduce the tarantulas in the hobby back into the wild if somehow some species went extinct?
 

SonsofArachne

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Is it possible to reintroduce the tarantulas in the hobby back into the wild if somehow some species went extinct?
It is possible. However there are a lot several problems with this. The main one being USFW considers the gene pool of our spiders to be impure (and they're probably right). Although if a species does go extinct in the wild they have worked with impure bloodlines in the past. The second problem would be finding suitable habitat to release them in. Habitat loss is the main problem these species face. The third problem would finding the money and manpower (and interest, these are spiders we're talking about, not pandas) to gather them up, ship them back, and reintroduce them.
 

Kron

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This indeed doesn't seem to be well thought out and is likely the default response for endangered species. Reintroducing species generally works poorly for most endangered species as they usually have to be conditioned appropriately to survive in the wild and likewise the wild has to be conditioned appropriately for their reintroduction. So for most mammals it makes some sense to ignore pet populations.

However, Tarantulas and other inverts don't seem like they need sophisticated conditioning environments and reintroductions of endangered spider species are generally productive. Arthropods don't need to be trained to hunt and are often successful invasive species thanks to their phenotypic plasticity.

So assuming, as we should, that pet tarantula populations are a viable source population for the wild sink populations we should keep captive bred populations healthy and genetically diverse and to do this migration between local populations and so states would be beneficial (following metapopulation theory). What should be done is an encouragement of keepers to breed their tarantulas and to only sell and buy captive bred tarantulas.
 
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Vanessa

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All species are now listed on CITES and not just the handful of species from Sri Lanka. The proposal has been accepted as of August 26, 2019

https://cites.org/eng/com/cop/18/inf/index.php

79. Comments on proposal CoP18 Prop. 49 by Sri Lanka and the United States of America to include all species of arboreal and ornamental tarantulas in the genus Poecilotheria in Appendix II (submitted by India) CoP18 Inf. 79 Prop. 49 English 18/08/2019
 

Liquifin

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All species are now listed on CITES and not just the handful of species from Sri Lanka. The proposal has been accepted as of August 26, 2019

https://cites.org/eng/com/cop/18/inf/index.php

79. Comments on proposal CoP18 Prop. 49 by Sri Lanka and the United States of America to include all species of arboreal and ornamental tarantulas in the genus Poecilotheria in Appendix II (submitted by India) CoP18 Inf. 79 Prop. 49 English 18/08/2019
I don't want to read forever, but I'm assuming now all pokies are affected in the US?
 

lostbrane

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https://www.cites.org/eng/disc/how.php

Would appear export is the only thing really affected, unless the US has some sort of additional caveat for CITES imports.

As an addendum, I wonder if this will put off the other species listed in the original
petition from being put under the ESA.
 
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Theneil

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https://www.cites.org/eng/disc/how.php

Would appear export is the only thing really affected, unless the US has some sort of additional caveat for CITES imports.

As an addendum, I wonder if this will put off the other species listed in the original
petition from being put under the ESA.
I believe an importer also has to acquire a special permit and pay additional fees to import CITES species into the US.
 

JPG

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This is worse than what Canadian Firearm law is turning into...
More nonsense!
 

ApexApinkPanda

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Mar 1, 2021
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So there's a breeder in California. Can I purchase them here and then take them with me when I move to Utah or Idaho in a year or so? Or is moving them across state lines totally out now. I'm confused about that part?
 

Theneil

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So there's a breeder in California. Can I purchase them here and then take them with me when I move to Utah or Idaho in a year or so? Or is moving them across state lines totally out now. I'm confused about that part?
if you are both (buyer and seller) residents of the same state you can purchaser them in that state. if you move, you ARE allowed to transfer your personal collection accross state lines.
 

Stardust1986

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P. fasciata, P. ornata, P. smithi, P. subfusca, and P. vittata have been added as endangered species

I saw this on Facebook and initially thought that it was fake, but no, it's completely real. Here in the US, it appears as if it is now illegal to sell those species across state lines. The full proposal can be found here for those more versed in legalities than I am. But to quote the proposal:
I'm sad to here that, some species were saved by regular people keeping a certain species
 

Jmadson13

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As of now and from what I understand we're limited to buying captive bred in our own states and there's no limitations on animals you already own. The worrying fact, as with anything is the slippery slope it becomes when the law is on the books and they can push to outright ban ownership of said species. I'd also like to know if other countries are abiding by the ban on imports and transporting captive bred specimens or if it's just in the United States.
 

Duke1907

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P. fasciata, P. ornata, P. smithi, P. subfusca, and P. vittata have been added as endangered species

I saw this on Facebook and initially thought that it was fake, but no, it's completely real. Here in the US, it appears as if it is now illegal to sell those species across state lines. The full proposal can be found here for those more versed in legalities than I am. But to quote the proposal:
Greed. Pure and simple political greed. Gotta get that permit right now. Greedy <edit>.
 
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InvertsPR

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Id like to see them enforce this though. Seems like a half a** law that they didnt put much brain into. Pretty sure it’s forgotten about. No matter what, there are plenty of these in the hobby captive bred. If youre in fl and trying to buy from Tennessee, you WILL find a way.
 

l4nsky

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Greed. Pure and simple political greed. Gotta get that permit right now. Greedy <edit>.
Id like to see them enforce this though. Seems like a half a** law that they didnt put much brain into.
Respectfully, no. The law is doing exactly what it is designed to do. It's designed to restrict the commercial trade involving an endangered animal while still allowing institutions and hobbyists dedicated to the species' survival to work with them across state lines. If this was a simple money grab or simply designed to be a hassle, wouldn't it be more effective to just ban their interstate movements outright? Do you think zoos involved in a species survival plan for an endangered species buy and sell them to each other? No they're gifted (likewise amongst hobbyists interested in keeping these species available in the states).

Pretty sure it’s forgotten about. No matter what, there are plenty of these in the hobby captive bred. If youre in fl and trying to buy from Tennessee, you WILL find a way.
https://arachnoboards.com/threads/attn-poecilotheria-owner-breeder-or-dealer.258494/post-3316518
 

InvertsPR

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Respectfully, no. The law is doing exactly what it is designed to do. It's designed to restrict the commercial trade involving an endangered animal while still allowing institutions and hobbyists dedicated to the species' survival to work with them across state lines. If this was a simple money grab or simply designed to be a hassle, wouldn't it be more effective to just ban their interstate movements outright? Do you think zoos involved in a species survival plan for an endangered species buy and sell them to each other? No they're gifted (likewise amongst hobbyists interested in keeping these species available in the states).


https://arachnoboards.com/threads/attn-poecilotheria-owner-breeder-or-dealer.258494/post-3316518
thank you for the education. Im sorry you feel like a broken record.
 
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