Avic Versicolor/Peru Purple/ Hybrid Project

[CAK]

Well I am going to catch a lot of flack for this but i have chosen to breed my Avicularia versicolor 5" F and my Avicularia sp peru purple 5" M to see if I get a sac. Normally I would have never considered doing this but no one wanted the male and I am not just going to watch him die so my project was born. I will probably repeat this with my A. minatrix as well. I have already paired them together once and the male had two successful inserts. I am going to pair them again in a couple of days and I will post the video on this thread. I will keep all my notes as things progress on this thread as well. I know that this topic is widely debated and I understand both sides of the discussion. Both spiders have so much magnificent color that the offspring should be quite striking..

No obviously not...I am going tomorrow to talk to someone in the biology department. So we will see if there is any interest. If not I will do it myself. But I personally won't be surprised if there is some interest. My uncle majored in science and gave me the idea. Nothing can hurt from seeking extra help and if the answers no at least I tried

Thats ok! Everyone will be paranoid wondering "What" you are pairing them up with. Obviously if you have those kinds of high end species and you are perfectly ok with hybridizing to checkout pretty colors and sizes "in the name of science..." Then you are what I have dubbed peopl in the past and will dub you as well... A hack!

Conducting "research" without a hypothesis, Thinking about getting help from a college. And you have already started by pairing them up... And you this this is a well thought out plan. Looks like you Started the Car, Put it in Drive and forgot to get in! :wall:

 

[Singapore_Blue1]

Conducting "research" without a hypothesis, Thinking about getting help from a college. And you have already started by pairing them up... And you this this is a well thought out plan. Looks like you Started the Car, Put it in Drive and forgot to get in! :wall:

Well I am doing the project with or without the help of the college. So I didn't put the cart before the horse. I am simply seeking extra help from an expert if they are willing to assist me. What is so hard to comprehend?

 

[CAK]

Well I am doing the project with or without the help of the college. So I didn't put the cart before the horse. I am simply seeking extra help from an expert if they are willing to assist me. What is so hard to comprehend?

There is nothing "to" comprehend. I hope your purplish blue morphed critters live forever, defy gravity and can tap dance to music.

 

[xhexdx]

There is nothing "to" comprehend. I hope your purplish blue morphed critters live forever, defy gravity and can tap dance to music.

False hopes, my friend.

How do you like the attention, OP?

 

[AprilH]

I'll say again, one breeding is not research. What questions are you looking to answer? What are your methods? What are your controls? Just doing something to see what happens is NOT research. Your uncle majored in science? Great. Kind of general, and doesn't mean anything as far as you're concerned. You still don't seem to know the first thing involved in research.

If someone were looking at hybridization in natural populations and doing DNA comparisons of different species, etc, that would be research... not 'let's see what happens.'... and it's not like there's funding just laying around. You have to write up your research plan, apply for grants, etc for funding (which is very very competitive and hard to get), and produce results.

 

[Singapore_Blue1]

False hopes, my friend.

How do you like the attention, OP?

I was expecting it to be honest. I was not seeking it.....I am cool with taking all the hits though..I have had many disagreements on here about other subjects regarding T's as well...How you liking the thread so far? Wait till I post the breeding video tomorrow

---------- Post added at 06:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:20 PM ----------

I'll say again, one breeding is not research. What questions are you looking to answer? What are your methods? What are your controls? Just doing something to see what happens is NOT research. Your uncle majored in science? Great. Kind of general, and doesn't mean anything as far as you're concerned. You still don't seem to know the first thing involved in research.

If someone were looking at hybridization in natural populations and doing DNA comparisons of different species, etc, that would be research... not 'let's see what happens.'... and it's not like there's funding just laying around. You have to write up your research plan, apply for grants, etc for funding (which is very very competitive and hard to get), and produce results.

Yes it was general about my uncle but his IQ is through the roof. (Please no comments about IQ) If you didn't notice I didn't post any of that information yet...Be patient....Who said that I was not going to consider all of this? Your correct about the funding but if there is interest they may be willing to lend me a hand in aquiring such grants...I have lots of work to do and to be clear I am not denying that nor am I opposed to the work.

 

[Falk]

Singapore blue: you are useless to this hobby, please leave it.

 

[Singapore_Blue1]

Singapore blue: you are useless to this hobby, please leave it.

Ok opinions and some insults are cool...Don't take it that far....Screw off bud;P

 

[madamoisele]

OP, there's a lot of posters on this particular forum that will not hesitate to cut you down for anything they don't personally agree with. Just like in life. If you want to perform research on your T's, the smartest thing, in my opinion, would be to look to the hobbyists themselves for opinions on the matter.

The majority of hobbyists on this board are providing you with information and guidance which you probably won't take because of the hateful method of delivery some choose to respond in. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

However, if you decide to go ahead and hybridize anyway (which, as a human being, is your right), you must consider what will happen to the babies. Are you prepared to find worthy homes for 100-200 baby spiders? If not - what will you do? Are you prepared to exterminate your spiders?

Many factors are to be considered before making such a decision. But if you do make them, I'll take a baby.

 

[JimM]

 

[Singapore_Blue1]

OP, there's a lot of posters on this particular forum that will not hesitate to cut you down for anything they don't personally agree with. Just like in life. If you want to perform research on your T's, the smartest thing, in my opinion, would be to look to the hobbyists themselves for opinions on the matter.

The majority of hobbyists on this board are providing you with information and guidance which you probably won't take because of the hateful method of delivery some choose to respond in. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

However, if you decide to go ahead and hybridize anyway (which, as a human being, is your right), you must consider what will happen to the babies. Are you prepared to find worthy homes for 100-200 baby spiders? If not - what will you do? Are you prepared to exterminate your spiders?

Many factors are to be considered before making such a decision. But if you do make them, I'll take a baby.

Yeah you are correct. One thing your not thinking about is why would someone with 15 years experience ask for input or opinions with someone with 2 or 3 years experience? Someone with equal experience cool I will listen but I am far from clueless here. As far as the babies are concerned I am prepared to care for them all myself if need be but honestly I doubt I will have that problem.. I have already had many inquires and I don't even have a sac...

 

[kylestl]

Singapore blue: you are useless to this hobby, please leave it.

+1 (I'm sure there are many more)

Why would you be so interested in messing with species that take 1000's of years to develop? I haven't seen anything logical in any of your posts. YOur just throwing some t's together to get "sum purrty colors". Be honest you will not test humidity, tolerance to heat and cold, and so on. When you sell them you know who will not end up dumping their tarantulas away and who won't be dumb like you and hybridize.........NO! I know this because you obviously do not care about tarantulas and their individual species. You are the type of person that makes this hobby so much less enjoyable. I will always enjoy my t's but it is people like you that just make it harder for everyone. Keep up with the projects though man. Maybe you can make prettier colors then what nature has already done for us!

 

[Kathy]

Well, as someone who keeps T's just because I enjoy watching them, I have to ask......what is the big deal about the OP doing this? It's like keeping purebred dogs and purebred cats. Who cares if any species is "pure". People use to (and still do) complain about blacks and whites marrying and having children or Christians and Jews and "mixed breed" kids. So he breeds them and gets pretty tarantulas? I would enjoy them just the same. Why does everything have to be "pure"? I am asking for a very logical explanation as to why this matters. The above poster stated "thousands of years to develop"......You are saying two different types of species of tarantulas never bred in nature??

 

[Singapore_Blue1]

+1 (I'm sure there are many more)

Why would you be so interested in messing with species that take 1000's of years to develop? I haven't seen anything logical in any of your posts. YOur just throwing some t's together to get "sum purrty colors". Be honest you will not test humidity, tolerance to heat and cold, and so on. When you sell them you know who will not end up dumping their tarantulas away and who won't be dumb like you and hybridize.........NO! I know this because you obviously do not care about tarantulas and their individual species. You are the type of person that makes this hobby so much less enjoyable. I will always enjoy my t's but it is people like you that just make it harder for everyone. Keep up with the projects though man. Maybe you can make prettier colors then what nature has already done for us!

Oh,
So you know that I won't keep up with temp, humidity and so forth....You don't know me at all and stop acting like you do....stop making false accusations when you haven't a clue. I have already addressed to issue on the spiderlings. Your very short sighted...

 

[kylestl]

Well, as someone who keeps T's just because I enjoy watching them, I have to ask......what is the big deal about the OP doing this? It's like keeping purebred dogs and purebred cats. Who cares if any species is "pure". People use to (and still do) complain about blacks and whites marrying and having children or Christians and Jews and "mixed breed" kids. So he breeds them and gets pretty tarantulas? I would enjoy them just the same. Why does everything have to be "pure"? I am asking for a very logical explanation as to why this matters. The above poster stated "thousands of years to develop"......You are saying two different types of species of tarantulas never bred in nature??

Another post with minimal logic:? Some peoples lively hoods rely on t's. When I buy a tarantula I would rather get a versicolor rather then some hybridized avicualria. They do cross breed in nature but PLEASE people quit trying to say we are nature. WE are not. WE are people and it is our responsibility to keep bloodlines pure. When is it your responsibility to decide that hey these distinct species of tarantulas are getting boring....lets make new ones, you should not be the one to decide that. You are aware hybridization can cause genetic defects too? Why is it about being pretty? I know I keep tarantulas that are brown and still enjoy them. I like to tell people what I have rather then having to say I don't know what it is because some idiot threw two spiders together. I'm sure others will help you make sense of it too, though you probably will not understand.

 

[Chris_Skeleton]

Wait till I post the breeding video tomorrow

It's clear all this is to rile everyone up.

First he was doing it because he didn't want the male to go to waste.
Then he said a major dealer was interested in "studying" them.
Then he said he was doing it for his own research.
Next it was that some university was helping him.

OP, how many more reasons are you going to give? You've changed the story so many times.

So who is at Vanderbilt that will help with this? Is there a renowned expert on inverts there? Or are you just blindly going to talk someone in the biology department. Who would want to do this study? I mean there might be someone, I don't know, that's why I'm asking.

You've stated so much in this thread I will not even touch on because of how ridiculous it is.

 

[xhexdx]

How you liking the thread so far?

This about sums it up:

Singapore blue: you are useless to this hobby, please leave it.

I find it pretty immature of you to say this:

Well I am going to catch a lot of flack for this...

Then continue to call people names who tell you that you're being stupid/immature/foolish, etc.

Can everyone please stop feeding the troll now? If we don't post, he'll go away.

 

[AprilH]

I was expecting it to be honest. I was not seeking it.....I am cool with taking all the hits though..I have had many disagreements on here about other subjects regarding T's as well...How you liking the thread so far? Wait till I post the breeding video tomorrow

---------- Post added at 06:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:20 PM ----------



Yes it was general about my uncle but his IQ is through the roof. (Please no comments about IQ) If you didn't notice I didn't post any of that information yet...Be patient....Who said that I was not going to consider all of this? Your correct about the funding but if there is interest they may be willing to lend me a hand in aquiring such grants...I have lots of work to do and to be clear I am not denying that nor am I opposed to the work.

Yeah, sorry. It's not going to happen. Unless you're in an entomology or related program and have a basis for studying those populations (and can convince the money holders of the importance of your research) it's not going to happen. Again, just one breeding - or a few to random females because you don't want to waste a male - is not scientific research. You say you're thinking of all this? Nope. I have a science background (and was a PhD student and am fully aware of what is involved in conducting research) and it's a much much more complicated process than you think it is. Sorry. I think you're full of it and just trying to justify your actions.

Also, to answer Kathy, dog breeds are all the same species, as are different human ethnic groups/races. Hybridizing involves different species. It's a different situation.

 

[JimM]

Well, as someone who keeps T's just because I enjoy watching them, I have to ask......what is the big deal about the OP doing this? It's like keeping purebred dogs and purebred cats. Who cares if any species is "pure". People use to (and still do) complain about blacks and whites marrying and having children or Christians and Jews and "mixed breed" kids. So he breeds them and gets pretty tarantulas? I would enjoy them just the same. Why does everything have to be "pure"? I am asking for a very logical explanation as to why this matters. The above poster stated "thousands of years to develop"......You are saying two different types of species of tarantulas never bred in nature??

Easiest just to paste one of my many responses to this subject from the past.

Look here's the problem, and I suggest anyone considering crossbreeding take this to heart.

First, with the exception of a few aphonopelma species where pollution of the wild gene pool is a danger (and arguably has already happened), it's not about wild populations so much. The problem is that lets say you cross a regalis with a fasciata, just for your own curiosities sake. I'll even give the person the benefit of the doubt for this example, and suggest that they never had any intention of slings ever getting out into the hobby, but things happen. Life happens. You give some to a buddy who says he'll keep them, but for whatever reason he gives them away or sells them...or breeds them.

Let's say he gave them away....now somebody out there has a nice adult female or two, and has no idea that it's not just a fasciata. He breeds it with a male fasciata, and sells a sac of "fasciata" slings. Now what? There's a bunch of the pokies around that are not P. fasciata, they're not P. regalis...they're not anything. They're just a mut out there polluting the genetics of possibly both species within the hobby. At some point down the road the genetics of a large quantity of animals within the hobby is polluted.

This is why crossbreeding, for any reason, whether you're talking about fish, spiders, reptiles, whatever - is utterly irresponsible. If you go shopping for a regalis, you want a REGALIS, not some "sorta, kinda" regalis-like pokey.

You have to be either completely ignorant of the possible ramifications of your actions, or inexcusably disrespectful of the hobby and species in question to intentional crossbreed these animals.

Ignorance is one thing, that can be assuaged. People who just don't give a damn are another story.

Peace

---------- Post added at 11:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:21 PM ----------

I'll add that the actual, likely real world danger to the integrity of a given species (within the hobby) in many cases is negligible...that's still no reason to be careless. You never know how things will shake out.

 

[Kathy]

Opiate and JimM, thank you - what you both said makes sense and I better understand what the debate is about.