Looking for a new, reliable guard dog.

[equuskat]

Wow, somebody here really likes to stir up controversy.

Blatant trolling. You don't say stuff like that unless you're lookin' for an e-argument.

Most people on this site are animal lovers IN GENERAL, even if we have our favorites. Starting such controversy is irrational.

 

[Tim Benzedrine]

Here's something else that some of you will find interesting. According to current research, especially that conducted by canine biologist Dr. I. Lehr Brisbin, a personal acquaintance of mine, the old notion of cavemen going out and killing adult wolves and kidnapping helpless pups to bring home to the cave and "enslave", thus beginning the domestication of the dog, is simply untrue. It's a MYTH.
pitbulllady

Huh. I never even knew that theory existed. I thought the mutual benefit explanation was pretty much accepted as canon.

 

[mikeythefireman]

I like puppies. They're cute.

I vote for Rotties, too. In case anyone is still here for the original post. We bred them growing up and I couldn't get enough of them.

 

[Tleilaxu]

Get a lab! Ours will bark and growl at a stranger like she wants to kill him/her but when she gets too come in contact with the said stranger she will just lick them to death and possibly pee on them due to the excitment of a new person giving her a belly rub. gotta love lab pups and adults!

 

[Veneficus]

I kept and maintained a pack of pure wolves, along with Carolina Dogs, New Guinea Singing Dogs and real Akita Inu as part of a comparitive canine behavioral study in completing my Masters in Biology. I KNOW DOGS, and I KNOW WOLVES! My experiences are not based on some stupid romanticized notion of the noble wolf as some etherial, god-like being, far superior to man and man's creations, since they're not based on any hatred of Homo sapiens or of domesticated animals, as your views obviously are.

pitbulllady

I *LOVED* reading your posts. It makes the thread worthwhile. Thanks.

I'm sure you're familiar with the new research recently published in National Geographic about dog's intelligence? I think there have been a few shows about how due to dog's domestication, they show intelligence superior to apes in how they think, and can understand and communicate with us. Heck for all I know you might have been involved in the research.

 

[357wheelgunner]

I agree. If you already have an alarm system installed, then logically, I'm not sure why you would want a dog solely for the purposes of guarding.

In an interview with real professional criminals, the crooks were asked what people should do if they want to be safe at night. The answer was consistent - more than one dog. One dog can be pistol whipped, knifed, etc. but two dogs are almost impossible to deal with.

Most alarm companies, if asked, will recommend a trained guard dog in addition to the alarm system. An alarm system can be disabled, as can a dog. Hopefully the dog and alarm will give you ample time to get the shotgun out and get your family in one room to wait for the police to come and clear the house.

Keep in mind that despite the possible threatening physical appearance of a dog, it won't really do that much to protect you. In the 1800's, when all you had was an intruder, unarmed and with little to protect themselves, then yes. A dog would probably work.

I don't know what kind of dogs you are used to. I was mauled by one when I was younger, I will never forget how strong that dog was, how sharp the teeth, and how hard it fought. Dogs can be killed, but a good one will tear the intruder apart before going down.

In the 1800s everyone had guns, swords, axes, hatchets, and they weren't brainwashed cowards like the majority of overcivilized people around today. They were used to strife, hardship, and fighting, and if they didn't know how to deal with it they wouldn't have lasted long. They had dogs for the same reasons we do - to alert them to a threat.

In today's era...with firearms, toxins, medicines, etc... I'd say someone who wanted to break into a house is going to, and they're going to end up killing your dog in the process.

Most people who break into houses are drug addicts, not professional criminals in a suit and tie or ninjasuit (depending on what kind of movie you watch too much of) with cans of spray to find lasers and whatnot.

Also, to those who said that if the crook was good with dogs the dog is useless...only if it's a weak nonaggressive dog. My german shepherd wouldn't let anyone but myself, my wife, or my daughter into our house without alerting us. If someone threw a steak or something at her she'd still keep barking until I came to see what was going on.

Not many people know how to train good strong guard dogs, hence the ignorance. Don't confuse worthless lap dogs with a strong alert guard dog with a purpose.

An alarm system is not going to keep you safe. It will notifiy the authorities to help, but until they get there you are on your own. Guard dogs are the best thing for alerting you to danger. An alarm system, backed up by a guard dog, backed up by a homeowner with a shotgun who knows how to use it under stress will ensure a safe home.

 

[357wheelgunner]

Technology can't love you. Technology cannot give comfort to a lonely old person or sick child. Technology pales in comparison to millions of years of evolution that went into the dog before it was known as a dog, that cannot be erased. Nobody asked, in starting this thread, whether or not a sterile, cold machine would be better than a dog. The original poster wanted to know what kind of DOG, as in D-O-G, NOT a freaking MACHINE, would be best suited for his purpose. For a person who admittedly hates dogs, and all domesticated animals, and probably from what I can read between those transparent lines, hates humans as well, to answer with their worthless opinion of the matter is like a PETA vegan trying to tell someone which cut of steak to choose from a restaurant menu, after all. Of what use would be the recommendations made by someone who finds the whole notion of eating meat to be abhorant, for someone who obviously wants to eat a steak and wants to know which one tastes the best? NONE, obviously.

Fantastic post in so many ways :clap:

 

[crpy]

In an interview with real professional criminals, the crooks were asked what people should do if they want to be safe at night. The answer was consistent - more than one dog. One dog can be pistol whipped, knifed, etc. but two dogs are almost impossible to deal with.

Most alarm companies, if asked, will recommend a trained guard dog in addition to the alarm system. An alarm system can be disabled, as can a dog. Hopefully the dog and alarm will give you ample time to get the shotgun out and get your family in one room to wait for the police to come and clear the house.



I don't know what kind of dogs you are used to. I was mauled by one when I was younger, I will never forget how strong that dog was, how sharp the teeth, and how hard it fought. Dogs can be killed, but a good one will tear the intruder apart before going down.

In the 1800s everyone had guns, swords, axes, hatchets, and they weren't brainwashed cowards like the majority of overcivilized people around today. They were used to strife, hardship, and fighting, and if they didn't know how to deal with it they wouldn't have lasted long. They had dogs for the same reasons we do - to alert them to a threat.



Most people who break into houses are drug addicts, not professional criminals in a suit and tie or ninjasuit (depending on what kind of movie you watch too much of) with cans of spray to find lasers and whatnot.

Also, to those who said that if the crook was good with dogs the dog is useless...only if it's a weak nonaggressive dog. My german shepherd wouldn't let anyone but myself, my wife, or my daughter into our house without alerting us. If someone threw a steak or something at her she'd still keep barking until I came to see what was going on.

Not many people know how to train good strong guard dogs, hence the ignorance. Don't confuse worthless lap dogs with a strong alert guard dog with a purpose.

An alarm system is not going to keep you safe. It will notifiy the authorities to help, but until they get there you are on your own. Guard dogs are the best thing for alerting you to danger. An alarm system, backed up by a guard dog, backed up by a homeowner with a shotgun who knows how to use it under stress will ensure a safe home.

Good post:clap:

 

[hairmetalspider]

In an interview with real professional criminals, the crooks were asked what people should do if they want to be safe at night. The answer was consistent - more than one dog. One dog can be pistol whipped, knifed, etc. but two dogs are almost impossible to deal with.

I'd like to see this article. Please site certified, proven information for this and then I'll buy it.
There is also, as many crimes, different factors contributing. (i.e. If such article exists, the 'criminals' it was done on could have been a single spectrum. "Professional criminals" covers a broad range...more than could possible or logically be compared in a single data gathering.)

Most alarm companies, if asked, will recommend a trained guard dog in addition to the alarm system. An alarm system can be disabled, as can a dog. Hopefully the dog and alarm will give you ample time to get the shotgun out and get your family in one room to wait for the police to come and clear the house.

I assume you have a system then?
And actually, an 'alarm company' will not recommend that, as it would decrease sales on their end or possibly stop a sale all together. I'm sure at some point you'll get an employees opinion, but it's not protocol. The point you're trying to make does little to justify your response, as you yourself pointed out they both can be disabled. Therefore, if someone is that well equipped and ready for an attack, one is not going to last longer than the other necessarily.

I don't know what kind of dogs you are used to. I was mauled by one when I was younger, I will never forget how strong that dog was, how sharp the teeth, and how hard it fought. Dogs can be killed, but a good one will tear the intruder apart before going down.

Using an argument from you were younger isn't going to be a reinforcing one. Children are obviously going to be hurt more by any said physical element than most adults would be. And no dog is going to tear an intruder apart if it has a bullet in it's head. Man has far worse mechanisms than the natural defenses of a dog. I also highly dislike your definition of a 'good guard dog' being one who can 'tear someone apart.' This is the reason certain breeds are being euthanized and abandoned at shelters by the thousands. you do not train an animal to kill. Period.

In the 1800s everyone had guns, swords, axes, hatchets, and they weren't brainwashed cowards like the majority of overcivilized people around today. They were used to strife, hardship, and fighting, and if they didn't know how to deal with it they wouldn't have lasted long. They had dogs for the same reasons we do - to alert them to a threat.

Said weapons weren't as readily available as they are in today's society, and many weren't nearly as dangerous. Houses were also small and far easier to break into. electric alarm systems were also not available at this time.

Most people who break into houses are drug addicts, not professional criminals in a suit and tie or ninjasuit (depending on what kind of movie you watch too much of) with cans of spray to find lasers and whatnot.

That's a BS comment and sounds like you've been watching far too much CSI.
I suggest you read more into sociology before making tv spawned assumptions.
Even if said comment was true, you're suggesting that a drug dealer would not have the intellect to entail such a crime or carry weapons, both of which is untrue.

Also, to those who said that if the crook was good with dogs the dog is useless...only if it's a weak nonaggressive dog. My german shepherd wouldn't let anyone but myself, my wife, or my daughter into our house without alerting us. If someone threw a steak or something at her she'd still keep barking until I came to see what was going on.

Not many people know how to train good strong guard dogs, hence the ignorance. Don't confuse worthless lap dogs with a strong alert guard dog with a purpose.

Hate to break it to you bucko, but not everyone wants a killer guard dog. Some people enjoy the life our their animals and perceive them as companions, not a mechanism you train to your liking. This paragraph alone makes me think of a large farm house, a few shot guns, and some moon shine.[/QUOTE]

An alarm system is not going to keep you safe. It will notifiy the authorities to help, but until they get there you are on your own. Guard dogs are the best thing for alerting you to danger. An alarm system, backed up by a guard dog, backed up by a homeowner with a shotgun who knows how to use it under stress will ensure a safe home.

I spoke too soon...there IS mention of a shot gun in there too.
This is your opinion, and you have a right to it. I would never expect a living thing to have guard my life. You should be able to do that with your common sense. An alarm system alone is more than enough protect your household, particularly with the state of the art systems that are available now.

I feel as though this reply was probably brought on because I told you what a ridiculous idea it was to put a bird in a five gallon tank, as you inquired. You and I obviously have very different opinions, and I suggest we simply accept that and move on.

 

[crpy]

Said weapons weren't as readily available as they are in today's society, and many weren't nearly as dangerous. Houses were also small and far easier to break into. electric alarm systems were also not available at this time.


What????? you needed these items to survive i those days hrmtl, come on use some common sense.

My dog actually stopped a direct threat on me and my gf. It was my dog, not me ,not my gf, not my grandmother or anybody else....my DOG.

 

[hairmetalspider]

Said weapons weren't as readily available as they are in today's society, and many weren't nearly as dangerous. Houses were also small and far easier to break into. electric alarm systems were also not available at this time.


What????? you needed these items to survive i those days hrmtl, come on use some common sense.

My dog actually stopped a direct threat on me and my gf. It was my dog, not me ,not my gf, not my grandmother or anybody else....my DOG.

Many people couldn't even AFFORD guns in the 1800s. Particularly farmers and peasants.

And they sure as heck didn't have Tech 9 machine guns back then.

 

[crpy]

Many people couldn't even AFFORD guns in the 1800s. Particularly farmers and peasants.

And they sure as heck didn't have Tech 9 machine guns back then.

True, they didn't have tech 9s, Ak47, bazookas, but a heck of allot had guns as listed in the book "world of arms" by Dominique venner.

However there was not the crime problem there is today but then again there was not the population. Also the population was not as "disarmed" as it is today by the raping of the second amendment.

 

[sylverbullit]

Having both an alarm system and guard dog is something that I will always have.

My friend has an alarm and a rotti.

His house was broken into a couple months ago. The robber had disabled the alarm system, but the dog heard someone outside and started freaking out. This gave my friend time to run up to his room for his 22.
By the time he got his cabinet unlocked the robber was already in the house and the dog had him pinned on the floor. My friend just had to use his rifle to hold the robber in place till the cops got there.

 

[crpy]

True the farmers and peasants had no money, but they didn't need much, they used their head to figure things out. They didn't have things handed to them by the Gov. Here is a paragraph from the book "Life in Emmitsburg in the 1800s" written by nathaniel Rowe,

"I was apprenticed to a gunsmith named John Armstrong. We used to buy the barrels and make the stocks and other Parts. The first barrels were made by welding two bars of iron around a solid core. Later old horseshoe nails were made into gun barrels. Some of the barrels we bought in Lancaster, Pa., and some were made around here. We bored out the barrels ourselves testing the accuracy of the work by squinting through the bore at a bright light; any inequality would cast a shadow on the opposite side of the barrel. When I first apprenticed, the old flint-lock muskets were quite common but they were rapidly being replaced by the percussion-cap guns The choke barrel was unknown in those days. We had lots of game to shoot. Partridges and pheasants were plentiful and the wild pigeons came in clouds. There were deer and wild turkey on the mountains, too."

They loved their dogs too.

 

[Xaranx]

Hate to break it to you bucko, but not everyone wants a killer guard dog. Some people enjoy the life our their animals and perceive them as companions, not a mechanism you train to your liking. This paragraph alone makes me think of a large farm house, a few shot guns, and some moon shine.

And some people have no clue how to care for their animals, so their dog will become a neurotic, stressed, angry, people biter who can't even be restrained with a simple command, like a dog trained in family and home defense would do.

 

[dtknow]

hairmetalspider: Don't really understand what you are arguing. You trying to say a dog is ineffective as house protection?

"I assume you have a system then?
And actually, an 'alarm company' will not recommend that, as it would decrease sales on their end or possibly stop a sale all together. I'm sure at some point you'll get an employees opinion, but it's not protocol. The point you're trying to make does little to justify your response, as you yourself pointed out they both can be disabled. Therefore, if someone is that well equipped and ready for an attack, one is not going to last longer than the other necessarily."

Just proved the point you were arguing against. One thing is for sure...an alarm system is easier to get around than an alarm system and a dog.

 

[vbrooke]

You're absolutely WRONG about that, vbrooke! A well-bred, well-trained American Pit Bull Terrier is the absolute WORST, LOUSIEST guard dog EVER! I've had, and bred, some of the most well-bred APBT's anyone would ever see, and believe me, I KNOW APBT's! This breed was originally bred to have ZERO human aggression, since handlers in dog fights actually got into the ring with the dogs, as did the referee, and they had to be able to pick up and handle these dogs in the heat of battle without risk of being bitten. Any dog that so much as growled or snapped at a human, for any reason, got removed from the gene pool, usually by means of a .22 bullet between its eyes. The main ancestors of this breed were the "Old Family" Irish bull-and-terriers that were brought over here to the US by poor Irish immigrants, and those dogs were often the only thing of value that those people had, which they could barter for things they needed in their new country, like food, clothing or furniture, so the dogs had to be willing to go away with a total stranger and accept that stranger as their new master immediately. Even the AKC standard for the show version of the APBT, the American Staffordshire Terrier, specifically mentions that willingness to accept any person as their master right away. That's not a trait that a good guard dog would have, needless to say! A well-bred, well-trained American Pit Bull does not understand the meaning of "stranger"; to such a dog, everyone is a long-lost friend! This is probably the most frequent victim of dog thieves, too-they can literally just drive up in a yard full of Pit Bulls and load them up and take them away. I had it happen to me. I lost four generations of dogs in one afternoon, most likely to someone the dogs had never met. They're just happy to see everybody and it does not occur to them that some people are up to no good. While an APBT would probably defend its owner in the case of an immediate violent personal attack on the owner, they will not protect property and do not have the natural suspicious nature and high territoriality of a guarding breed. So-called "Pit Bulls" that ARE naturally protective are in all likelihood cross-breeds, since there is a lot of cross-breeding with larger Mastiff breeds to produce these heavy, bulky and aggressive giant "Pit Bulls", but of course, the results are still mixed-bred dogs, NOT real APBT's, and do not have proper APBT temperament! Any "Pit Bull" that acts aggressive towards people entering or nearing their owner's property, whether or not that person is behaving in a threatening manner, is either a mutt, or it's been specifically trained, usually through abusive methods, to make it that way, and is most definitely NOT a "well-bred" example of the breed.

I keep Catahoula Leopard Dogs for guard dogs. They ARE, unlike Pit Bulls, naturally suspicious of and defensive against strangers, and are every bit as "game". However, I believe that the original poster stated that he wanted a dog with naturally-erect ears, even though contrary to popular belief, erect-eared dogs do not necessarily hear better than dogs with dropped or cropped ears. I can assure you my Catahoulas have no hearing difficulty at all, even though they do have drop ears, like a Rottweiler's. IF you can find a well-bred German Shepherd, or Belgian Malinois, those would be my next choices, followed by Dutch Shepherds. The latter two are medium-sized breeds, now the preferred breeds used by police and military, and do not have as much coat as a GSD, so if size and shedding is a big issue, those would be two to look into. But a Pit Bull, no-unless you want a dog to lick a burglar's face and help him carry out your tv and furniture!

pitbulllady

I want to apologize for upsetting you. I understand people are very passionate about somethings. I did not intend to give Pit's a bad name. In all honesty, your right. You are very well educated and experienced with dogs. Thank you for setting me straight. I'll educate myself more thoroughly before I post a random thought again.

 

[Laceface]

I grew up with a pit bull/ lab mix, and he was the most amazing dog in the world. He was our babysitter on more than one occasion, and he did amazing. Any child, could do anything to him, and he was okay with it. Pull his tail, climb on him, anything, and he's happy. But adults, if he didn't know them, he was very territorial of his home and family. When my dad had to do quick errands, he would take us with the dog, and leave us with him in the truck...and no one dared get within ten feet of our truck. Shadow knew his job
I know part of why he was the way he was was because he wasn't properly socialized and such, but he was the way we wanted him to be. You try and enter our door, and shadow wasn't first introduced to you, you WOULD get bit.
I know it's more then possible to have a super friendly pit, that doesn't do such things, but Shadow wasn't one of them, lol.

 

[ThomasH]

"There is nothing that a dog can do that technology can't."

How do you come up with a statement like that? What technology will love you more than it loves other people (which by the way can't be measured since technology does not love)?

Dude, thats what chicks are for. There is absolutely no point in having an animal "love you" or technology for that matter.
Like I said this argument is over.

 

[357wheelgunner]

experience > booklearning

I'd like to see this article. Please site certified, proven information for this and then I'll buy it.
There is also, as many crimes, different factors contributing. (i.e. If such article exists, the 'criminals' it was done on could have been a single spectrum. "Professional criminals" covers a broad range...more than could possible or logically be compared in a single data gathering.)

It was a special on the Discovery Channel on "professional" criminals. No article can be cited.

I assume you have a system then?
And actually, an 'alarm company' will not recommend that, as it would decrease sales on their end or possibly stop a sale all together. I'm sure at some point you'll get an employees opinion, but it's not protocol. The point you're trying to make does little to justify your response, as you yourself pointed out they both can be disabled. Therefore, if someone is that well equipped and ready for an attack, one is not going to last longer than the other necessarily.

Just because some salesman are dishonest, doesn't mean that some are educated capable men who care about others' security. An alarm should supplement awareness, preparedness, and a good dog.

All you can do is prepare for the worst and try your best. Overlapping security is doing that, getting only an alarm and then recommend that others do only that to make yourself feel better for a poor decision is not the right thing to do.

I've had 3 home invasion attempts. After the third one we started dog shopping. Alarms can be disabled, and most people sleep heavily. As long as my dog draws breath, I know that I won't wake up to a criminal in the bedroom. I'll wake up as soon as he steps into the house, then I know exactly what to do.

Using an argument from you were younger isn't going to be a reinforcing one. Children are obviously going to be hurt more by any said physical element than most adults would be.

I was a young man when I was attacked, as big as many adult men. Dogs are powerful when motivated.

I spoke from experience, you can't say the same about anything that you typed.

And no dog is going to tear an intruder apart if it has a bullet in it's head. Man has far worse mechanisms than the natural defenses of a dog. I also highly dislike your definition of a 'good guard dog' being one who can 'tear someone apart.' This is the reason certain breeds are being euthanized and abandoned at shelters by the thousands. you do not train an animal to kill. Period.

Have you ever shot a moving dog? I have, and it is NOT easy (rabid animals are common in rural areas, theres nothing to do but shoot them sadly). I used to shoot hundreds of rounds every week, and I still have trouble shooting moving objects that are much larger than a dog. Most crackheads who rob houses stuff a stolen gun in their crotch that they've never fired, they're not marksman.

A good dog, like a good person, has the judgement and training needed to know when to use teeth and when not to. My dog is a pefect example. No one in our family has ever been bitten, but she is very protective of us.

Said weapons weren't as readily available as they are in today's society, and many weren't nearly as dangerous. Houses were also small and far easier to break into. electric alarm systems were also not available at this time..

You must be reading something else, I said that people had :

guns, swords, axes, hatchets

I can chip an axe or hatchet out of a rock and lash it to a piece of wood. How is that any less dangerous than its modern day counterpart? Every house had knives, if you don't think that a person can kill to defend their home with a knife, do a search. Not everyone had guns, but most houses had at least one rifle available and ready.

What makes you think that homes in the 1800s didn't have basic tools like knives, guns, axes, etc.?

That's a BS comment and sounds like you've been watching far too much CSI.
I suggest you read more into sociology before making tv spawned assumptions.

I suggest you stop "reading more into sociology" and talk to your local police. Ask them who commits most robberies and home invasions. They'll most likely tell you that it's either a drug addict looking for stuff to pawn, or a rapist neighbor after the woman of the house.

Hate to break it to you bucko, but not everyone wants a killer guard dog. Some people enjoy the life our their animals and perceive them as companions, not a mechanism you train to your liking. This paragraph alone makes me think of a large farm house, a few shot guns, and some moon shine.

Few people want a killer dog, but many people want a dog to serve a purpose. I hate to break it to you bucko, but not everyone wants a yippy little lapdog that does whatever it wants and contributes nothing practical to the family (though some do and that's fine, I just don't get it).

Great job generalizing all rural people into drunken moonshiners, and all dogs that are worth something into "killer guard dogs".

I spoke too soon...there IS mention of a shot gun in there too.
This is your opinion, and you have a right to it. I would never expect a living thing to have guard my life. You should be able to do that with your common sense. An alarm system alone is more than enough protect your household, particularly with the state of the art systems that are available now.

The shotgun is more common in american households than any other firearm, save the .22 rifle. You can hunt birds with it with a 26" barrel, then replace that barrel in 2 minutes with a 20" barrel with rifle sights and shoot deer with solid slugs, then replace that with an 18" barrel and load up with buckshot or #4 for home defense. The shotgun is also the best weapon for short range confrontations at night, because a load of buckshot fires 8-12 9mm balls at once, almost ensuring the end of the fight. That's why I brought it up talking about home security.

I don't expect a "living thing to have guard my life". I love my dog, she allows me to sleep deeply at night thanks to her sensetive ears and desire to protect our family. My dog is revered for her contribution to the safety of our family.

After numerous breakins where we used to live, we learned through experience that security requires more than setting an alarm at night.

I feel as though this reply was probably brought on because I told you what a ridiculous idea it was to put a bird in a five gallon tank, as you inquired. You and I obviously have very different opinions, and I suggest we simply accept that and move on.

Then let it die. I personally would not bring up threads where I viciously attacked a n00b for asking a question (no matter how stupid) about something he declared that he knew nothing about, instead of educating him. If you want to "simply accept that and move on", don't bring it up

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=125199

If you notice, I even took your name out of my reply hoping you wouldn't take it as a personal attack. The stuff that you wrote was a common theme throughout the thread, not limited to your post. Your post simply had more ignorant, inexperienced security BS all in one place than any of the other posts to quote and pick apart, so I used that.