Humor me...Most dangerous T?

[BorisTheSpider]

Here's the most dangerous T . . . .

He pities the fool that don't see that !

 

[Crone Returns]

Almost all of the hot tarantulas, h Mac, s calc, cyriopagopus, ect are all considered some of the worst and are all very fast. I can't think of a single "slow" tarantula with a bad bite.
I see how that thought would make sense to you, but in this hobby it simply isn't true.
My vote is also to S. calceatum, hyper agresive, insanely potent venom, and multiple reports of true aggression ( not just defensiveness). I wouldn't consider pokies since they tend to be more skittish than defensive. Yeah their venom sucks but I don't think they compete with S. Calc or h mac

I was trying to see who disagreed with you and hit the wrong button and I can't undo it!

 

[Andrea82]

I was trying to see who disagreed with you and hit the wrong button and I can't undo it!

Lol, happens to me all the time...my phone is trying to isolate me..

 

[Ceymann]

Do you all really think S. calceatum and H. macs have a hotter bite than something like haplopelma hainanum? I thought H. hainanum took the crown when it came to venom toxicity?

 

[Toxoderidae]

Do you all really think S. calceatum and H. macs have a hotter bite than something like haplopelma hainanum? I thought H. hainanum took the crown when it came to venom toxicity?

I wouldn't say most in toxicity, but the fact that Haplos in general bite more than once makes them seem more dangerous to me. I don't think any T beats calceatum in venom though.

 

[Chris LXXIX]

Do you all really think S. calceatum and H. macs have a hotter bite than something like haplopelma hainanum? I thought H. hainanum took the crown when it came to venom toxicity?

Good question. While I don't think they can surpass an adult 0.1 S.calceatum, I love the 'Black Legends' and speculations behind H.hainanum (by far my fav. 'Haplo').

 

[Najakeeper]

"Dangerous" to whom?

-6 month old baby
-6 year old kid
-Healthy adult

???

All animals require respect, even kittens can trigger allergic reactions that can kill a person but let's stop labeling tarantulas as "dangerous" especially if we don't want to deal with more stupid laws regarding to them.

I would be OK if we wanted to talk about the most potent venom, highest venom yield, most defensive, fastest etc. Some of these have answers, others speculations but dangerous in context to animals is risk of life for me and in my humble opinion, no tarantula is "dangerous" to a healthy adult human.

 

[BorisTheSpider]

Here the second most dangerous T . . . .


Earl Grey , and it better be hot !

 

[Matabuey]

We already know from my previous involvement in discussions on this topic that even S.calceatum has a rather low LD.50 (8.1 to 9.5 mg/kg), coupled with the fact they don't produce a great deal, not enough to cause serious risk to ones life. This is the only relatively accurate means we have at measuring how potentially dangerous an animals venom is to a Humans.

A lot of LD.50 values available for tarantula venom, are for intracerebroventricular injection (ICV) (into the ventricular system of the brain). Which Haplopelma hainanum has an LD50 of 1.41 mg/kg (ICV). Which is useless in this instance, and cannot be used for a side by side comparison with S.cal.

The S.calceatum's LD.50 is given from intravenous administration. Which isn't perfect, as most bites would be subcatenous, but it's a better approximation, note it would have an even lower LD.50 if the administration were subcatenous.

People need to stop making it out as if these animals are incredibly dangerous. They are not. The lack of science on this forum is worrying at times, a lot of nonsense is spread quite frequently. The internet is your friend, go and do some research on these animals you keep, instead of using it to watch random YouTube videos.

Anyway, here is a nice chart to see just how quickly these tarantulas drop mice, with 0.1 microlitres of their venom being injected into the brain (ICV). As you can see, G.rosea doesn't take much longer to kill than S.calceatum.

The Y axis is in minutes, those species whose bar goes to the top - it took them anywhere from 1 hour to 3 hours to kill the subject.

Africa(A), Asia(B), Central and North America(C), South America(D).

Species:
(A)
Cithariscius crawshayi(Ccr);Scodra griseipes(Sg)(Stromatopelma calceatum griseipes);
Hysterocrates hercules(Hh);Heteroscodra maculata(Hm);Pterinochilus murinus(Pmu);Eucratoscelus longiceps(El);Pterinochilus
meridionalis(Pme)(Ceratogyrus meridionalis); Hysterocrates gigas(Hg); Ceratogyrus cornuatus(Cco)(C.marshalli);Ceratogyrus
brachycephalus(Cb).

(B)
Poecilotheria regalis(Pre);Selenocosmia lyra(Sl);Haplopelma lividum(Hl);Cyriopagopus paganus(Cp);
Poecilotheria fasciata(Pf).

(C)
Avicularia urticans(Au);Tapinauchenius latipes(Tla);Aphonopelma texense(At);Avicularia magdalena
(Am); Aphonopelma steindachneri (Ast); Brachypelma boehmei (Bb); Psalmopoeus cambridgei (Pc); Brachypelma emilia(Be); Brachypelma smithi(Bs);Aphonopelma sp.(WestTexas)(Asp);Brachypelma vagans(Bv);Avicularia avicularia(Aa);Aphonopelma seemani(As); Aphonopelma anax(Aan); Aphonopelma chalcodes (Ac);Brachypelma albopilosum(Ba); Tapinauchenius gigas (Tg);Brachypelma angustum(Bang);Brachypelma auratum(Baur);Aphonopelma pallidum(Ap).

(D)
Paraphysa sp(Psp);Grammostola actaeon(Ga);Grammostola spatulata(Gs) (G.rosea);Phrixotrichus roseus(Pr); Theraphosale blondi(Tl);Paraphysa manicata (Pm)(P.scrofa);Grammostola pulchra(Gp); Cyclosternum fasciatum (Cf); Pamphobeteus striatus (Ps) (Lasiodorides striatus); Megaphobema velvetosoma (Mv); Acanthoscurria sp(Asp);Pamphobeteus antinous(Pa);Ephebopus murinus(Em);Megaphobema robustum(Mr);Lasiodora parahybana(Lp);Pamphobeteus vespertinus(Pv);Crassicrus lamanai(Cl);Vitalius platyomma(Vp);Lasiodorides polycuspulatus(Lpo);Megaphobema mesomelas(Mm).

 

[Chris LXXIX]

People need to stop making it out as if these animals are incredibly dangerous. They are not. The lack of science on this forum is worrying at times, a lot of nonsense is spread quite frequently. The internet is your friend, go and do some research on these animals you keep, instead of using it to watch random YouTube videos.

Well, thank God that, at least, finally, now you are here for enlighten us, bunch of poor ignorants YT addicted souls
<-- sad Butters face

I don't think that, considering a S.calceatum pretty venomous, for being a Theraphosidae, is the same as viewing those as "incredibly dangerous". Just a fact.

Anyway, here is a nice chart to see just how quickly these tarantulas drop mice, with 0.1 microlitres of their venom being injected into the brain (ICV). As you can see, G.rosea doesn't take much longer to kill than S.calceatum.

And this means... what, at the end of the day, man? Means only that G.rosea venom effects are pretty badass on a mice. Ok. I have heard that years ago. Like others, I'm sure.

Anyway, I have reasons to believe that, all the wise folks out there, if forced gun-at-the-head, would took a G.rosea bite instead of a S.calceatum one. LD.50 or not :-s

 

[Matabuey]

Well, thank God that, at least, finally, now you are here for enlighten us, bunch of poor ignorants YT addicted souls
<-- sad Butters face

I don't think that, considering a S.calceatum pretty venomous, for being a Theraphosidae, is the same as viewing those as "incredibly dangerous". Just a fact.




And this means... what, at the end of the day, man? Means only that G.rosea venom effects are pretty badass on a mice. Ok. I have heard that years ago. Like others, I'm sure.

Anyway, I have reasons to believe that, all the wise folks out there, if forced gun-at-the-head, would took a G.rosea bite instead of a S.calceatum one.

When people on this forum say things like "insanely toxic S.calceatum", when it's not anywhere near insanely toxic.

And sure, i was just providing that graph as an interesting thing to digest.

 

[Chris LXXIX]

When people on this forum say things like "insanely toxic S.calceatum", when it's not anywhere near insanely toxic.

And sure, i was just providing that graph as an interesting thing to digest.

Uhm, ok ok, I see your point :-s

Just that:

1) Where is Europe on that graph? We have European native Theraphosidae. Few, but we have. Not to mention Australia u_u

2) More important point, the name of the Goddess 0.1 Pelinobius muticus PBUH (Peace Be Upon Her) is the old one, which sucks.

Moral: avoid like plague those that disrespect the Goddess

 

[tnerd93]

We already know from my previous involvement in discussions on this topic that even S.calceatum has a rather low LD.50 (8.1 to 9.5 mg/kg), coupled with the fact they don't produce a great deal, not enough to cause serious risk to ones life. This is the only relatively accurate means we have at measuring how potentially dangerous an animals venom is to a Humans.

A lot of LD.50 values available for tarantula venom, are for intracerebroventricular injection (ICV) (into the ventricular system of the brain). Which Haplopelma hainanum has an LD50 of 1.41 mg/kg (ICV). Which is useless in this instance, and cannot be used for a side by side comparison with S.cal.

The S.calceatum's LD.50 is given from intravenous administration. Which isn't perfect, as most bites would be subcatenous, but it's a better approximation, note it would have an even lower LD.50 if the administration were subcatenous.

People need to stop making it out as if these animals are incredibly dangerous. They are not. The lack of science on this forum is worrying at times, a lot of nonsense is spread quite frequently. The internet is your friend, go and do some research on these animals you keep, instead of using it to watch random YouTube videos.

Anyway, here is a nice chart to see just how quickly these tarantulas drop mice, with 0.1 microlitres of their venom being injected into the brain (ICV). As you can see, G.rosea doesn't take much longer to kill than S.calceatum.

The Y axis is in minutes, those species whose bar goes to the top - it took them anywhere from 1 hour to 3 hours to kill the subject.

Africa(A), Asia(B), Central and North America(C), South America(D).

Species:
(A)
Cithariscius crawshayi(Ccr);Scodra griseipes(Sg)(Stromatopelma calceatum griseipes);
Hysterocrates hercules(Hh);Heteroscodra maculata(Hm);Pterinochilus murinus(Pmu);Eucratoscelus longiceps(El);Pterinochilus
meridionalis(Pme)(Ceratogyrus meridionalis); Hysterocrates gigas(Hg); Ceratogyrus cornuatus(Cco)(C.marshalli);Ceratogyrus
brachycephalus(Cb).

(B)
Poecilotheria regalis(Pre);Selenocosmia lyra(Sl);Haplopelma lividum(Hl);Cyriopagopus paganus(Cp);
Poecilotheria fasciata(Pf).

(C)
Avicularia urticans(Au);Tapinauchenius latipes(Tla);Aphonopelma texense(At);Avicularia magdalena
(Am); Aphonopelma steindachneri (Ast); Brachypelma boehmei (Bb); Psalmopoeus cambridgei (Pc); Brachypelma emilia(Be); Brachypelma smithi(Bs);Aphonopelma sp.(WestTexas)(Asp);Brachypelma vagans(Bv);Avicularia avicularia(Aa);Aphonopelma seemani(As); Aphonopelma anax(Aan); Aphonopelma chalcodes (Ac);Brachypelma albopilosum(Ba); Tapinauchenius gigas (Tg);Brachypelma angustum(Bang);Brachypelma auratum(Baur);Aphonopelma pallidum(Ap).

(D)
Paraphysa sp(Psp);Grammostola actaeon(Ga);Grammostola spatulata(Gs) (G.rosea);Phrixotrichus roseus(Pr); Theraphosale blondi(Tl);Paraphysa manicata (Pm)(P.scrofa);Grammostola pulchra(Gp); Cyclosternum fasciatum (Cf); Pamphobeteus striatus (Ps) (Lasiodorides striatus); Megaphobema velvetosoma (Mv); Acanthoscurria sp(Asp);Pamphobeteus antinous(Pa);Ephebopus murinus(Em);Megaphobema robustum(Mr);Lasiodora parahybana(Lp);Pamphobeteus vespertinus(Pv);Crassicrus lamanai(Cl);Vitalius platyomma(Vp);Lasiodorides polycuspulatus(Lpo);Megaphobema mesomelas(Mm).

nice to have people on this forum that use actual science to back up what they are saying

too many times on t forums do people say things they have just dreamt up with nothing to back up. so thanks for that. learnt a lot from a few of your posts that i didnt know before

if poss can you pm me the paper you got the graph from would like to see what else it has to say

 

[Jeff23]

Here the second most dangerous T . . . .
View attachment 219789

Earl Grey , and it better be hot !

I have more species of Tea than I have T right now. I have a bunch of genus Black Tea's, some genus Green Teas. and a few genus White Tea's. But not for long because I have to admit I am addicted and moving on to the more potent T's.

 

[tnerd93]

When people on this forum say things like "insanely toxic S.calceatum", when it's not anywhere near insanely toxic.

And sure, i was just providing that graph as an interesting thing to digest.

btw what snake is that in your avatar? looks stunning and mean lol. love the pattern

 

[Matabuey]

btw what snake is that in your avatar? looks stunning and mean lol. love the pattern

Bothrops asper. My female, when she was a littlun.

 

[magicmed]

Reading this thread has me very curious, I think we should have a set of experiments conducted someday to give more accurate and up-to-date numbers. But until then, here are my thoughts...

I think toxicity levels are being comparatively thought of. Such as, if you're comparing an OW T venom to something like a black mamba, well the T venom is nowhere near as toxic. In fact I would really like to know where a lot of OW tarantulas venom ranks compared to a lot of reptilian venom we have a base for, such as a diamondback for lower end, or the mamba for higher.

I've HEARD that true spider venom is generally much more potent than tarantula venom, I personally have been tagged a few times by brown recluses (yes positive ID on the spider and I still have the scars 10 years later) one time as I slept the bugger hit me 3 times as I apparently rolled on him. Pain was nothing at all, however the flesh damage was pretty intense for little bites. I did however delay the trip to the doc. The flesh around the wound literally melted away over a few weeks, leaving both infection and rotting of an area the size of a half dollar.

My only other experience with a venomous animal was when I was 10 and was hit by a timber rattlesnake. This has been 19 years ago so my memory isn't the best, but I actually recall the antivenon hurting and burning more than the bite itself. I have no scars, and to my knowledge no nerve damage (it hit me in the hand)

I'm extremely curious now to know the danger level via toxicity of OW tarantulas in terms of both instant complications, and long term problems. I've heard a bite from certain OW's can put you in the hospital for a few weeks, possibly comatose during that time, obviously they don't have the outright fatality of a lot of reptilian venom, but it seems if the stories I hear are true, tarantula venom affects the body in a different way than any snake or true spider I have experienced.

Are tarantula venom generally a neurotoxin? Endotoxin?

 

[Ceymann]

Reading this thread has me very curious, I think we should have a set of experiments conducted someday to give more accurate and up-to-date numbers. But until then, here are my thoughts...

I think toxicity levels are being comparatively thought of. Such as, if you're comparing an OW T venom to something like a black mamba, well the T venom is nowhere near as toxic. In fact I would really like to know where a lot of OW tarantulas venom ranks compared to a lot of reptilian venom we have a base for, such as a diamondback for lower end, or the mamba for higher.

I've HEARD that true spider venom is generally much more potent than tarantula venom, I personally have been tagged a few times by brown recluses (yes positive ID on the spider and I still have the scars 10 years later) one time as I slept the bugger hit me 3 times as I apparently rolled on him. Pain was nothing at all, however the flesh damage was pretty intense for little bites. I did however delay the trip to the doc. The flesh around the wound literally melted away over a few weeks, leaving both infection and rotting of an area the size of a half dollar.

My only other experience with a venomous animal was when I was 10 and was hit by a timber rattlesnake. This has been 19 years ago so my memory isn't the best, but I actually recall the antivenon hurting and burning more than the bite itself. I have no scars, and to my knowledge no nerve damage (it hit me in the hand)

I'm extremely curious now to know the danger level via toxicity of OW tarantulas in terms of both instant complications, and long term problems. I've heard a bite from certain OW's can put you in the hospital for a few weeks, possibly comatose during that time, obviously they don't have the outright fatality of a lot of reptilian venom, but it seems if the stories I hear are true, tarantula venom affects the body in a different way than any snake or true spider I have experienced.

Are tarantula venom generally a neurotoxin? Endotoxin?

Most are neurotoxic, a cocktail containing amino acids effecting the Ca, K , Na channels of our nervous system. However, drop for drop are far less concentrated than that of true spiders, also true spiders can have necrotoxins as well which results in mass tissue damage.

 

[bryverine]

When people on this forum say things like "insanely toxic S.calceatum", when it's not anywhere near insanely toxic.

And sure, i was just providing that graph as an interesting thing to digest.

I thought these LD values were not really comprable to humans as a mouse is highly susceptible to the venom.

Found something comparing some more:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4470046/


LD50 values estimated from injection of P. regalis, C. darlingi, and B. epicureanumvenoms into crickets (not mice, my bad)
Time post-injection
24 hours | 48 hours
P. regalis 20.6 ± 6.2 | 5.23 ± 3.1
C. darling 119.4 ± 29.5. | 120.2 ± 32.3
B. epicureanum 31.5 ± 9.6. | 14.4 ± 5.0

What's this? A Brachypelma the same as a Poec who is 6 times less than a darlingi? No way that correlates to humans.

Also, careful with the picture without a citation or permission from owner. I've seen a link to that report several times here. Very interesting report from what little I could understand.

 

[TownesVanZandt]

I personally have been tagged a few times by brown recluses (yes positive ID on the spider and I still have the scars 10 years later) one time as I slept the bugger hit me 3 times as I apparently rolled on him. Pain was nothing at all, however the flesh damage was pretty intense for little bites. I did however delay the trip to the doc. The flesh around the wound literally melted away over a few weeks, leaving both infection and rotting of an area the size of a half dollar.

Man, that sounds awful! Why did you delay going to the doctor?