ATTN: Poecilotheria owner, breeder or dealer.

nunoskii

Arachnopeon
Joined
Nov 20, 2012
Messages
9
Wow this is ridiculous, seems like theyre trying to do this with every exotic animal now a days. This should definitely apply to more than just breeders.
 

dementedlullaby

Arachnobaron
Joined
May 8, 2014
Messages
300
I just noticed this a few days ago. Are Pokies still legal?
This post is pretty old and as far as I'm aware they have not passed any laws in the US banning hobbyists from owning Poecilotheria species. Maybe this is different on a state by state basis? Perhaps someone with more knowledge about the current laws will chime in. I'm not American so not 100% sure.

Still legal in Canada to own them and probably most of Europe.

I hear Italy might be a different story but I don't care enough to keep up with their laws as I never plan to move to Italy.
 

Tenevanica

Arachnodemon
Joined
Feb 18, 2015
Messages
727
This post is pretty old and as far as I'm aware they have not passed any laws in the US banning hobbyists from owning Poecilotheria species. Maybe this is different on a state by state basis? Perhaps someone with more knowledge about the current laws will chime in. I'm not American so not 100% sure.

Still legal in Canada to own them and probably most of Europe.

I hear Italy might be a different story but I don't care enough to keep up with their laws as I never plan to move to Italy.
Yeah, I haven't seen anything that prohibits it here in Colorado at least. It wouldn't surprise me if they're banned somewhere based on the track record that the USDA has. Exotic beetles? BANNED! Exotic millipedes? BANNED! Any and all phasmids? BANNED! I swear, I might move to Canada just so I can keep these animals without shelling out $15,000 for a permit.
 

UrbanTarantulas

Formerly 'jackthejeweler'
Arachnosupporter +
Joined
Oct 26, 2013
Messages
27
This is because they dont approve of captive breeding? Why the hell not?
 

dementedlullaby

Arachnobaron
Joined
May 8, 2014
Messages
300
Yeah, I haven't seen anything that prohibits it here in Colorado at least. It wouldn't surprise me if they're banned somewhere based on the track record that the USDA has. Exotic beetles? BANNED! Exotic millipedes? BANNED! Any and all phasmids? BANNED! I swear, I might move to Canada just so I can keep these animals without shelling out $15,000 for a permit.
Haha we can't legally own a lot of bugs here as well. Actually the list is probably longer in Canada. We can't own stags/other beetles, mantids, millipedes, dubia (and many other roach species), stick insects. I'm probably missing a bunch of others. Pretty sure you need to be a certified zoo or entomology department. I think also Universities can legally own collections but not sure.

Anyway it's not so much better across the border either :(.
[
 

Tenevanica

Arachnodemon
Joined
Feb 18, 2015
Messages
727
Haha we can't legally own a lot of bugs here as well. Actually the list is probably longer in Canada. We can't own stags/other beetles, mantids, millipedes, dubia (and many other roach species), stick insects. I'm probably missing a bunch of others. Pretty sure you need to be a certified zoo or entomology department. I think also Universities can legally own collections but not sure.

Anyway it's not so much better across the border either :(.
[
Jeez, I thought it was just a USA thing. At least we can own all roach species (except in Florida) and mantids. I feel bad for you, I honestly do. I think that these governments need to chill out and trust that the few people that are in to this hobby won't release hordes of insects in agricultural zones. Especially in Canada, where it is too cold for these animals 9 months out of the year!
 

Steve Rankin

Arachnopeon
Joined
Aug 25, 2016
Messages
8
Not sure if this is news to anyone or not but I felt compelled to share at my earliest convenience!!

POKIES, HOWEVER BEAUTIFUL, ARE NOT PROTECTED SPECIES. AND THAT MEANS ALL OF THEM. I HAVE 5 AND HAVE SPOKEN TO 3 DIFFERENT BODIES TO MAKE SURE ALL IS OK. IT IS BECAUSE SPECIES ARE FAR MORE LIKELY TO INCREASE IN NUMBER WHILST IN CAPTIVITY.


From the American Tarantula Society President...if you are a Poecilotheria owner, breeder or dealer, please read, share and participate:

This is a request for facts concerning the economics, keeping and breeding of many Poecilotheria species to be submitted to the United State Fish and Wildlife Service (USFWS) regarding the Endangered Species Act (ESA) petition to list 11 species (P. fasciata; P. formosa; P. hanumavilasumica; P. metallica; P. miranda; P. ornata; P. pederseni; P. rufilata; P. smithi; P. striata; and P. subfusca). The petition can be reviewed at this link and is only concerned with those 11 species.

goo.gl/wQNke2 or

http://www.regulations.gov/#!documentDetail;D=FWS-HQ-ES-2013-0107-0002

The Petition process for ESA listing includes a 90 day Public Comment period which ends February 3rd, 2014. The facts requested by the USFWS regarding ESA listing of these 11 species are quite specific. Please feel free to review what information is requested at the .pdf file link below. Opinions or commentary outside the requested information is not used and may be deleterious to our efforts to maintain Poecilotheria with our captive bred hobby.

goo.gl/7oo4Q7 or

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2013-12-03/pdf/2013-28553.pdf

In short, to demonstrate our hobby does not require wild caught individuals to maintain it, we suggest hobbyists to provide the following information on a species by species basis if possible:

1) Numbers of total animals you have owned of the concerned species (using the current USFWS nomenclature).
2) Total number of breeding attempts you have made per species.
3) Total number successful eggsacs you have produced and total number of spiderlings produced.
4) Total monetary values associated with these species including sales, purchases, and maintenance/supplies.

By combining the requested information via the .pdf file with the below URL on “Tips for Submitting Effective Comments”, we can provide the best information available to the USFWS about our hobby. For those who are zoo personnel, arachnologists/entomologists, or biologists, please feel free to provide your expert commentary above and beyond that requested here.

goo.gl/NysNcx or

http://www.regulations.gov/docs/Tips_For_Submitting_Effective_Comments.pdf

Comments should be made via the link below or to the physical address listed on the link below. This final link also provides a summary of the requested information. As a hobby, we can provide information on domestic populations, active breeding within the hobby which demonstrate no strains on the wild and native populations.

goo.gl/IMv5ck or

http://www.regulations.gov/#!documentDetail;D=FWS-HQ-ES-2013-0107-0001

Please remember this is a process, one which requires INFORMATION and FACTS. This is not a form letter equating to an opinion poll, this is not a vote for or against the ESA listing of these species. Only facts are beneficial in any way. All comments may be reviewed here:

goo.gl/1vhlgR or

http://www.regulations.gov/#!docketBrowser;rpp=25;po=0;dct=PS;D=FWS-HQ-ES-2013-0107

The ESA listing process and the impact on the US hobby could easily take five years. ESA listing of one or more of the 11 species could result in the cessation of all interstate travel of the species under review, effectively removing these species from the hobby. There is no possible way to predict what could happen, so it is our best interest to demonstrate responsible care and propagation of these priceless organisms.
Please comment, even if no numbers of animals are reported, comments about maintaining ownership and sales matter. If you do nothing else, please go to the comments site and say something such as:
“Regardless of ESA listing of one or more species, please provide for the exemption of captive bred animals from the possession and interstate sales regulation."

Any questions regarding this request may be sent to poecilotheriaesa2014@gmail.com before the Febuary 3rd deadline. This is an informational email only, not a USFWS submission email.

*Note to dealers: All comments are public record. Please provide information to your comfort level as sales can be a sensitive subject.

*Professionals who would like to offer further input are invited to follow the requested information guidelines. It would be especially informative from those who have visited India or Sri Lanka and have firsthand accounts as current data is very limiting. Zoo personnel who know of active breeding of these species are also encouraged to provide that information.



http://www.regulations.gov/#!documentDetail;D=FWS-HQ-ES-2013-0107-0002
 

Philth

N.Y.H.C.
Arachnosupporter
Joined
Jan 4, 2003
Messages
2,715
I'm going to cut and paste what I said in the "other thread"...

A few things...
  • This is a old thread about the potential lose of Poecilotheria in U.S. collections due to the ESA listing of 11 Poecilotheria species from from 2 years ago. It has since fell through, so no point in commenting here about it anymore.
  • On a related topic, recently 5 Peocilotheria species from Sri Lanka were put on the chopping block again by the USFWS for the ESA. There were many threads here and on Facebook encouraging people to take action when it was needed. The time to do that is also over, so if you are now upset, outraged, or just want to help, you already missed the boat. The judgment on that one is still pending.
  • I agree this thread has nothing to do with handling, but since this thread no longer has a relevant topic, what makes the difference lol.
Later, Tom
 

jhoagland

Arachnopeon
Joined
Dec 8, 2013
Messages
26
This is very much the same thing that is happening in the fishing world. "If the crown pleases, may I fish in such and such a spot?" Keep in mind to follow the money. Catch shares are driving the "Marine Protected Environments"
How does this tie into T's? I'll tell you...the "science" Same scheme, different venue. Keep your powder dry gentlemen.
 

dord

Arachnopeon
Joined
Oct 28, 2017
Messages
44
I know this thread is old and it never passed but I'd just like to add the Simandoa conserfariam incident... It's extinct in the wild but is being kept alive by hobbyists. Perhaps one day this species can be reintroduced to Africa.
 

advan

oOOo
Staff member
Joined
Apr 11, 2010
Messages
2,041
I know this thread is old and it never passed but I'd just like to add the Simandoa conserfariam incident... It's extinct in the wild but is being kept alive by hobbyists. Perhaps one day this species can be reintroduced to Africa.
This is still coming.......
 

Lost Patient

Arachnopeon
Joined
Aug 23, 2014
Messages
4
If anything the hobby is protecting these species by producing thousands of captive breed offspring. Without captive breeding efforts nothing could be done to reintroduce species once they are extinct in the wild. Maybe this would be a good valid argument to bring up if any of you are going to submit comments.
 

dord

Arachnopeon
Joined
Oct 28, 2017
Messages
44
It officially just got real.
Yeah... I just heard that starting on the 30th Poecilotheria ornata, smithi, subfusca, and vittata are being banned from interstate trade. Came here to see if there was any discussion about it. They have to be insane to think damaging the captive population of these species will save them.
 

violetsun5

Arachnopeon
Joined
Dec 17, 2017
Messages
15
The weird thing about this to me is the species selected.

P Ornata is arguably not endangered, though its range is under threat, as is the range of every other organism in that region. It's listed, yet P Metallica--which has less than 100 wild members left--is not. Several other very critically endangered species were not listed, either. Which makes me wonder if the true motivation behind the law change was money, not animal welfare.
 

Brad Smith

Arachnopeon
Joined
Dec 24, 2018
Messages
9
This is very sad indeed....without us breeding poecilotheria their habitat will continue to be destroyed and they will disappear forever.....such a sad thought that these magnificent creatures may not be around forever all because of mankinds greed
 

ErinM31

Arachnogoddess
Joined
Feb 25, 2016
Messages
1,166
This is very sad indeed....without us breeding poecilotheria their habitat will continue to be destroyed and they will disappear forever.....such a sad thought that these magnificent creatures may not be around forever all because of mankinds greed
I certainly agree the laws are not rational and do nothing to protect the species, but I don’t believe every country has such restrictions and it is still legal to own them in the States, so hopefully all five species will continue to be bred in captivity and not be in danger of extinction.
 
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