ATTN: Poecilotheria owner, breeder or dealer.

[Brad Smith]

Do any of you think that they will really stop us from keeping our beloved pokies?....I hope not as they are my favorite genus

 

[jayefbe]

According to this https://tomsbigspiders.com/2018/08/...e-ruling-on-sri-lankan-poecilotheria-species/
it is still legal to ship Sri Lankan Poecilotheria across state lines as long as no money is exchanging hands.

We should set up a breeding program, where hobbyists trade their mature animals to ensure that they're still being bred in captivity. The interstate commerce ban means that the future of these species in the hobby is at risk. It would be really unfortunate to see them disappear, but if hobbyists are willing to trade their animals to ensure they're bred, and are even willing to give away slings to ensure they're being kept by qualified keepers, I think we can make it work.

I'd volunteer to help start such a group, but I'm just now getting back into the hobby and don't even have any Poecilotheria in my collection yet.

 

[sourpatchkid]

We should set up a breeding program, where hobbyists trade their mature animals to ensure that they're still being bred in captivity.

A breeding program is a great idea. I suggest starting off with a google doc of Pokie inventory in the US, for those who are interested in a breeding program. It should have the following minimum entry: timestamp, name and or username, species, amount, age of each female and male... etc. Perhaps there already is one

I'm still new to the hobby and would welcome anyone to add their suggestions

 

[SavageCritter]

If that document gets made, it might also be worth mentioning who hatched each T, so you could make at least a vague estimate of how closely related two individuals might be based on where they came from.

 

[Russell Gault]

According to this https://tomsbigspiders.com/2018/08/...e-ruling-on-sri-lankan-poecilotheria-species/
it is still legal to ship Sri Lankan Poecilotheria across state lines as long as no money is exchanging hands.

We should set up a breeding program, where hobbyists trade their mature animals to ensure that they're still being bred in captivity. The interstate commerce ban means that the future of these species in the hobby is at risk. It would be really unfortunate to see them disappear, but if hobbyists are willing to trade their animals to ensure they're bred, and are even willing to give away slings to ensure they're being kept by qualified keepers, I think we can make it work.

I'd volunteer to help start such a group, but I'm just now getting back into the hobby and don't even have any Poecilotheria in my collection yet.

Thanks for the info

 

[mrmatheny]

It could be like a buyers club. Everyone pays a membership fee, or something like that, then has access to the trade.

 

[Alongcameapider]

I’ve been reading a majority of this thread from the beginning, and I’m confused, this thread goes back to 2014 so there’s a lot of changed information. I’ve just started keeping Tarantulas a couple years ago. What is this all exactly about? To my understanding it’s trade? Can anyone provide any updated links as far as bill information? I definitely want to stay up to date as there’s a couple other bills I’ve been following for other animals that are trying to be banned as well where I live.

 

[Matt Man]

the same thing happened with Brachypelmas. You used to be able to get wild caught adult females for $30. So many were being taken it became a threat to the wild populations. So they clamp down on the trade, and the only ones you can get are captive bred and more expensive.Sri Lankans work 6 days a week and average about $1500 a year. Catching Pokies and selling them for $25 each is good money so you can imagine the same thing happening there, that happened in Mexico. Prices are going up, and if they mess with the trade of captive bred, it will get worse

 

[MarkTwain]

Not sure if this is news to anyone or not but I felt compelled to share at my earliest convenience!!




From the American Tarantula Society President...if you are a Poecilotheria owner, breeder or dealer, please read, share and participate:

This is a request for facts concerning the economics, keeping and breeding of many Poecilotheria species to be submitted to the United State Fish and Wildlife Service (USFWS) regarding the Endangered Species Act (ESA) petition to list 11 species (P. fasciata; P. formosa; P. hanumavilasumica; P. metallica; P. miranda; P. ornata; P. pederseni; P. rufilata; P. smithi; P. striata; and P. subfusca). The petition can be reviewed at this link and is only concerned with those 11 species.

goo.gl/wQNke2 or

http://www.regulations.gov/#!documentDetail;D=FWS-HQ-ES-2013-0107-0002

The Petition process for ESA listing includes a 90 day Public Comment period which ends February 3rd, 2014. The facts requested by the USFWS regarding ESA listing of these 11 species are quite specific. Please feel free to review what information is requested at the .pdf file link below. Opinions or commentary outside the requested information is not used and may be deleterious to our efforts to maintain Poecilotheria with our captive bred hobby.

goo.gl/7oo4Q7 or

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2013-12-03/pdf/2013-28553.pdf

In short, to demonstrate our hobby does not require wild caught individuals to maintain it, we suggest hobbyists to provide the following information on a species by species basis if possible:

1) Numbers of total animals you have owned of the concerned species (using the current USFWS nomenclature).
2) Total number of breeding attempts you have made per species.
3) Total number successful eggsacs you have produced and total number of spiderlings produced.
4) Total monetary values associated with these species including sales, purchases, and maintenance/supplies.

By combining the requested information via the .pdf file with the below URL on “Tips for Submitting Effective Comments”, we can provide the best information available to the USFWS about our hobby. For those who are zoo personnel, arachnologists/entomologists, or biologists, please feel free to provide your expert commentary above and beyond that requested here.

goo.gl/NysNcx or

http://www.regulations.gov/docs/Tips_For_Submitting_Effective_Comments.pdf

Comments should be made via the link below or to the physical address listed on the link below. This final link also provides a summary of the requested information. As a hobby, we can provide information on domestic populations, active breeding within the hobby which demonstrate no strains on the wild and native populations.

goo.gl/IMv5ck or

http://www.regulations.gov/#!documentDetail;D=FWS-HQ-ES-2013-0107-0001

Please remember this is a process, one which requires INFORMATION and FACTS. This is not a form letter equating to an opinion poll, this is not a vote for or against the ESA listing of these species. Only facts are beneficial in any way. All comments may be reviewed here:

goo.gl/1vhlgR or

http://www.regulations.gov/#!docketBrowser;rpp=25;po=0;dct=PS;D=FWS-HQ-ES-2013-0107

The ESA listing process and the impact on the US hobby could easily take five years. ESA listing of one or more of the 11 species could result in the cessation of all interstate travel of the species under review, effectively removing these species from the hobby. There is no possible way to predict what could happen, so it is our best interest to demonstrate responsible care and propagation of these priceless organisms.
Please comment, even if no numbers of animals are reported, comments about maintaining ownership and sales matter. If you do nothing else, please go to the comments site and say something such as:
“Regardless of ESA listing of one or more species, please provide for the exemption of captive bred animals from the possession and interstate sales regulation."

Any questions regarding this request may be sent to poecilotheriaesa2014@gmail.com before the Febuary 3rd deadline. This is an informational email only, not a USFWS submission email.

*Note to dealers: All comments are public record. Please provide information to your comfort level as sales can be a sensitive subject.

*Professionals who would like to offer further input are invited to follow the requested information guidelines. It would be especially informative from those who have visited India or Sri Lanka and have firsthand accounts as current data is very limiting. Zoo personnel who know of active breeding of these species are also encouraged to provide that information.



http://www.regulations.gov/#!documentDetail;D=FWS-HQ-ES-2013-0107-0002

I have a Very large Platform and I will use my power to help the Hobby the best that I can. I reach millions of ppl and I have very important ppl paying attention.

 

[advan]

I have a Very large Platform and I will use my power to help the Hobby the best that I can. I reach millions of ppl and I have very important ppl paying attention.

Unless you are good friends with Deb Haaland, I don't see it going anywhere.....

 

[MarkTwain]

Unless you are good friends with Deb Haaland, I don't see it going anywhere.....

I can try to call up ppl who are brother the thing is we have to try and try with what we have. Point me in the direction and I’ll do what I can.

 

[MrDeranged]

<Admin Note>

Lets keep the thread on topic...not a request.

MrD

 

[Comatose]

Not sure if this has been brought up here, but I hope people are aware:

Buried in a law that just passed in the House of Representatives, the America COMPETES Act, which totals almost 3,000 pages - is a section that hands MASSIVE authority to USFWS to effectively ban any species of animal they see fit. It literally means that if they decide your tarantula, scorpion or centipede could survive in Florida, it is an injurious species and cannot be transported across ANY state line for ANY reason. Taking your sick pet to a vet just over a state border would become a FEDERAL CRIME.

It would also effectively end all legal imports as we know them. Instead of USFWS justifying why something should not be imported, they would create a “white list” of species that *can* be imported, and it would be up to us to justify why any of the 1,000+ known species of tarantula should be on that list.

Make no mistake: this has nothing to do with invasive species or conservation. USFWS will happily let hundreds of animals die in a hot warehouse over a spelling error, invent their own rules to harass legal importers and want nothing more than to restrict the hobby until it suffocated and dies. Meanwhile, brown boxers will continue doing what they do, and illegal shipping will become the only way to get the animals you want.

Does anyone think brown boxers or illegal sellers care about invasive species? Does USFWS have the capacity to screen car parts for smuggled livestock?

The law, as written, has passed the house, and will now go to the Senate. If it passes the Senate, the president will sign it, it will become law, and you can begin counting the days before USFWS announces that all non-native tarantulas (and inverts) are injurious.

This is not a political post. I don’t care what party you’re in or what other causes you support. If you’re reading this, it’s probably because you love our hobby and LOVE the animals we keep. With that in mind, PLEASE:

Another look at this very serious issue. Don’t ignore now and whine later - TAKE ACTION!

Tarantulas Bazaar made this great and concise guide on how:

Find your Representative: https://www.house.gov/representatives/find-your-representative

Find your Senators (contact BOTH): https://www.senate.gov/senators/senators-contact.htm

1. Call ;
2. Email ;
3. Fax letters to your Representatives and Senators

Feel free to politely voice your displeasure with this law, or use this template Tarantula Bazaar created a Template Letter for you to download on Google Docs.

NO to Lacey Act template letter

[Today’s Date] Subject line: NO to Lacey Act Amendments in America COMPETES Act Dear Senator [Name], I implore you to remove the Lacey Act amendments found in the America COMPETES Act (Section 71102 on pages 1661-1665) as your constituent, dedicated advocate for ecological conservation, and pe...

docs.google.com

 

[jennyclark1409]

More than just breeders and dealers should feel free to weigh in on this. Just state what you know for fact. Do you own one? More? Are they captive bred? (Obviously they are) The more information they have, even if it's reiterated over and over by different commenters, the better. We all want to see the habitat destruction stop, and te wild populations stabilize, but restricting interstate trade stateside hurts hobbyists and doesn't help the spiders. Were large amounts being exported here, it may be different; but it isn't.

Good point!

It seems like they're just looking at the people who are passionate about the T's, instead of going to the source of the problem and trying to combat the issues there.
Almost like chasing a tail... it's verging on pointless and could end up hurting the people actually doing some good (depending on what the government decides to do with the information when it's eventually laid out in front of them).

 

[Dementeddoll]

They said that about green bottles. Yet they’re still here and being sold. The new one starting in January that supposedly won’t be exported in the us is the versicolor.

 

[Matt Man]

it will become harder to find the Sri Lankan species. There are plenty of local breeders, but they can't transport them ac ross state / country borders

 

[l4nsky]

They said that about green bottles. Yet they’re still here and being sold. The new one starting in January that supposedly won’t be exported in the us is the versicolor.

C. versicolor are being added to CITES III, which means they'll be more difficult to import (more paperwork) but not impossible. All Brachypelma are CITES II and they're still imported fairly often .

it will become harder to find the Sri Lankan species. There are plenty of local breeders, but they can't transport them ac ross state / country borders

They can be gifted across state borders (one person gets a tarantula and the other person gets absolutely nothing - no trades, no cash, no future favors or considerations, etc) and AFAIK, standard breeding loans are still allowed by USFW where one person ships a male to a breeder and the breeder can ship the male and a portion of the offspring back if successful.

 

[Frogdaddy]

C. versicolor are being added to CITES III, which means they'll be more difficult to import (more paperwork) but not impossible. All Brachypelma are CITES II and they're still imported fairly often .


They can be gifted across state borders (one person gets a tarantula and the other person gets absolutely nothing - no trades, no cash, no future favors or considerations, etc) and AFAIK, standard breeding loans are still allowed by USFW where one person ships a male to a breeder and the breeder can ship the male and a portion of the offspring back if successful.

What if the receiver of the gift were to reimburse the gifter oh say $400 for shipping expenses?

 

[l4nsky]

What if the receiver of the gift were to reimburse the gifter oh say $400 for shipping expenses?

Sounds like the definition of an illegal kickback to me lol.

 

[Frogdaddy]

Sounds like the definition of an illegal kickback to me lol.

No no, reimbursement. To cover shipping costs and materials used in shipping.
The 2023 IRS tax code allows for a one time gift of up to $17,000. Just sayin.
Seriously it may be a tiny loophole.