What is owning a theraphosa like?

[DawgPoundSound]

This clearly is way over your knowledge on this subject,at least based on what you just posted here.
You clearly dont know what stress means when talking about animals.


The only problem here is that those who claim to be open minded are in fact the ones with their minds blind.

We are not dissrespecting this animals, neither we have less appreciation towards them, but we do seem to have more of a mature view of the facts and still keep them and take care of them even though we are educated enough to have a clear grasp of what an arachnid can and simply can not do.

Fran you're doing what Salsa said you've done in the entire thread, and so far she/he is correct. You're "nu uh" rather than explaining. So please define fully what stress means, since it's so different concerning animals. Not that humans aren't animals or anything. No that can't be true right? It's over my head. I apologize for confusing humans with animals. I mean, who woulda thought?

 

[Fran]

Fran you're doing what Salsa said you've done in the entire thread, and so far she/he is correct. You're "nu uh" rather than explaining. So please define fully what stress means

There you go, educate yourself:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7240033

 

[salsalover]

This clearly is way over your knowledge on this subject,at least based on what you just posted here.
You clearly dont know what stress means when talking about animals.


The only problem here is that those who claim to be open minded are in fact the ones with their minds blind.

We are not dissrespecting this animals, neither we have less appreciation towards them, but we do seem to have more of a mature view of the facts and still keep them and take care of them even though we are educated enough to have a clear grasp of what an arachnid can and simply can not do.

and you clearly have an elitist mindset fran and that's what we mean by a closed mind because you feel as if you know so much more than any of us to the point where you don't listen to anything we have to say let alone respect our views all you've done lately is demoralize and socially rape us you can't force your views on everyone and you clearly don't know what the word science even means considering you've used it so loosely and i would think you'd be smart enough to at least respect pheonixx since he's been working with Ts for a long time so long that he could in fact write a book or be a scientist but you're too close minded to even open yourself up to anything he has to say

 

[Chris_Skeleton]

And you clearly have an elitist mindset fran and that's what we mean by a closed mind because you feel as if you know so much more than any of us to the point where you don't listen to anything we have to say, let alone respect our views. all you've done lately is demoralize and socially rape us. You can't force your views on everyone and you clearly don't know what the word science even means considering you've used it so loosely, and I would think you'd be smart enough to at least respect pheonixx since he's been working with Ts for a long time. So long that he could in fact write a book or be a scientist, but you're too close minded to even open yourself up to anything he has to say.

Fixed. If you only you weren't raping punctuation.

 

[salsalover]

Fixed. If you only you weren't raping punctuation.

if only you could come up with something important to say rather than repeating yourself

 

[micheldied]

and yet that's not the criteria we're using to define the word intelligence in this debate let's be clear about what science is before we say "it isnt science or it's not backed up by science" the whole root of science is a hypothesis without a hypothesis science cannot existt because it is soley based on a hypothesis being proved true or false pheonixx came up with a hypothesis and has observed the results science can be done outside a lab we come up with informal hypothesis everyday and we see the results people do informal experiments all the time a scientist is human just like evryone else they are not god they don't determine exactly what occurs just because they state a claim and based on the fact that pheonixx has been doing this for a long time he could write his own book so i would think that you'd be decent enough to respect his opinion but apparently decency is dead and then you mentioned what we know about tarantulas so far but how can knowledge increase when you don't open yourself up to knew ideas maybe it's all you know so far because you attack anyone that doesn't agree with you and socially rape people for expressing an unrecognized idea

LOL the problem with your "hypothesis" is that it is rebutted by the majority of people who actually study tarantulas scientifically.

Now, how do you know that pheonix has done this for a long time? If so, why hasn't he written any books about tarantula behavior? Why not go against what people like Rick West have stated as fact?

I can be very open, but a line is drawn between what I can accept, with solid evidence to back it up, that is widely accepted, and what is absurd.
By the way, I am "attacking" no one, I am just as entitled to my opinion as you are. If you don't like being gone against, why not just tell the mods to close this thread?

You say we're saying these same things over and over?
What about you? Mr. "Social rape" and "Open to new ideas"?

By the way, your texts are like a train with no stations to stop at.

 

[salsalover]

LOL the problem with your "hypothesis" is that it is rebutted by the majority of people who actually study tarantulas scientifically.

you just contradicted your own sentence in the way that a hypothesis is the entire concept of science originated and pheonixx and maurduara have both studied tarantulas and science and they both agree with what im trying to convey to you and news flash: just because the majority makes a claim doesn't mean it's right

Now, how do you know that pheonix has done this for a long time? If so, why hasn't he written any books about tarantula behavior? Why not go against what people like Rick West have stated as fact?

if this statement isn't closed minded i dont know what is are you really telling me that you don't believe anything unless it's in the form of a book even though all it is as a claim supported by an observation which is the exact same thing pheonixx presented you with he explained his claim and backed it up with evidence based on an observation and all you've proven is that anyone can state anything as fact

You say we're saying these same things over and over?
What about you? Mr. "Social rape" and "Open to new ideas"?

and it is social rape int he way that you accuse me of being absurd simply because i have different means of determining facts you've cointued to demoralize me and try to force your ideas on me by doing so if you were as msart as you claim to be you'd know the act of rape ins't an act of lust but it's an act of control social rape in this case can be defined as someone else trying to control another persons opinion

 

[malevolentrobot]

salsalover, please stop using the term social rape, its garnering you no sympathy in your argument.

the presumption is that tarantulas just simply do not have the capacity for intellegence that you claim. and since you liked to throw it out there, i've taken argumentation too, and so you and i both know it is you on the other side of the argument is the one that bears the burden of proof if you want to get technical.

you haven't really brought anything scientific to the table in your defense, imo. just a bunch of flimsy observations that could be interpreted differently by others.

 

[salsalover]

salsalover, please stop using the term social rape, its garnering you no sympathy in your arguement.

the presumption is that tarantulas just simply do not have the capacity for intellegence that you claim. and since you liked to throw it out there, i've taken arguementation too, and so you and i both know it is you on the other side of the arguement is the one that bears the burden of proof if you want to get technical.

and yet you make the presumption that im trying to garner sympathy when im being honest about how i feel i genuinly feel like people are trying to socially control me and they're getting angry because i refuse to agree with them and if you took argumentation you should know that there are some cases you just cant win and it's typical for a debate of value it's clear that we have different definitions of the word intelligence according to this context i've been asking people to stop it and get back to the original topic and yet people continue to prove mauduaras point by acting like some sort of elitist group that believes a book written by a guy that started out with a hypothesis is some sort of bible

 

[malevolentrobot]

and yet you make the presumption that im trying to garner sympathy when im being honest about how i feel i genuinly feel like people are trying to socially control me and they're getting angry because i refuse to agree with them and if you took argumentation you should know that there are some cases you just cant win and it's typical for a debate of value it's clear that we have different definitions of the word intelligence according to this context i've been asking people to stop it and get back to the original topic and yet people continue to prove mauduaras point by acting like some sort of elitist group that believes a book written by a guy that started out with a hypothesis is some sort of bible

er, okay. bring me something that doesn't involve you trying to put the burden of proof on my side's shoulders and we'll see what happens. all you just did was state personal beliefs, no science whatseover.

slightly even more offtopic, but... "maudua" aka. dawgpoundsound was a troll here a couple months back who deliberately took your side to help continue trolling. you really don't want to add any viewpoints made by that person to your argument, if you want people to take your points you are trying to make the least bit seriously.

 

[Draiman]

i genuinly feel like people are trying to socially control me and they're getting angry because i refuse to agree with them

Isn't that exactly what you're doing, too?

i've been asking people to stop it and get back to the original topic and yet people continue to prove mauduaras point by acting like some sort of elitist group that believes a book written by a guy that started out with a hypothesis is some sort of bible

There is evidence to suggest, very strongly, that tarantulas do not have the mental capacity you and your friends claim they do. Do YOU have any evidence to suggest otherwise? If you don't, then who are you to call others closed-minded, when your claims are baseless, and absolutely contrary to known facts?

P.S. - If you decide to go on and on about people "socially raping" you then don't bother. Either answer my (and everyone else's) questions, or don't bother, because I won't.

 

[salsalover]

Isn't that exactly what you're doing, too?

actually no im getting angry for numerous reasons

1. my thread was hijacked when i said i wanted to know what owning a T is like i meant i wanted to know what owning a T is like

2. people have starte using ad homs as a form of debate

3. im tired of a series of people lecturing me and trying to change my mind at this point im literally just trying to defend myself

4. people seem to be making random assumptions without any regard for people's feelings

There is evidence to suggest, very strongly, that tarantulas do not have the mental capacity you and your friends claim they do. Do YOU have any evidence to suggest otherwise? If you don't, then who are you to call others closed-minded, when your claims are baseless, and absolutely contrary to known facts?

and who are you to call us naive when you can't tell us what we experienced a claim can't be baseless if it's supported by first hand experience not only that but the scientists you praise so much are ordinary people that started out with a hypothesis and supported it with a first hand experience and thats why we're saying your close minded because you refuse to listen to people with first hand experience that have been working with T's for a long time possibly longer than you not only that but have you considered that maybe just maybe facts derived from opinions that were once persucted by the majority

P.S. - If you decide to go on and on about people "socially raping" you then don't bother. Either answer my (and everyone else's) questions, or don't bother, because I won't.

p.s.-if you don't want me to use the term why do you continue trying to force me to agree with you and why do you avoid all of my questions

 

[micheldied]

you just contradicted your own sentence in the way that a hypothesis is the entire concept of science originated and pheonixx and maurduara have both studied tarantulas and science and they both agree with what im trying to convey to you and news flash: just because the majority makes a claim doesn't mean it's right

In what way was what I said contradicting? They have studied tarantulas? Guess what, anyone with Tarantulas has studied them. Sure, I agree that in some cases just because the majority says it's wrong, doesn't mean it is. I live in a place that's full of it. But in this case, I am not saying it is right, but it is what is widely accepted. And no one has actually proved it to be wrong. If you really think it is, why not take on a scientific study, write a paper, and prove us all wrong.

if this statement isn't closed minded i dont know what is are you really telling me that you don't believe anything unless it's in the form of a book even though all it is as a claim supported by an observation which is the exact same thing pheonixx presented you with he explained his claim and backed it up with evidence based on an observation and all you've proven is that anyone can state anything as fact

No, I can accept a claim that is widely accepted by scientists as these studies are actually done on a scientific level, not some observation someone made at home. I haven't proven anything. All I'm doing is backing up those whom I agree with, same thing you, pheonix, and muaduara are doing.

and it is social rape int he way that you accuse me of being absurd simply because i have different means of determining facts you've cointued to demoralize me and try to force your ideas on me by doing so if you were as msart as you claim to be you'd know the act of rape ins't an act of lust but it's an act of control social rape in this case can be defined as someone else trying to control another persons opinion

I never said YOU were absurd, only the things that you've posted. I am not demoralizing you, I don't even know you. Once again, all it is all about entitlement to opinion. I am forcing nothing on you, it is for you to choose whether to accept or ignore it. The same way Chinese believe that eating a Tiger's penis can enhance fertility, but Westerners will say it is disgusting and a stupid claim.

Reply in RED.

 

[salsalover]

er, okay. bring me something that doesn't involve you trying to put the burden of proof on my side's shoulders and we'll see what happens. all you just did was state personal beliefs, no science whatseover.

slightly even more offtopic, but... "maudua" aka. dawgpoundsound was a troll here a couple months back who deliberately took your side to help continue trolling. you really don't want to add any viewpoints made by that person to your argument, if you want people to take your points you are trying to make the least bit seriously.

have you considered that maybe just maybe debating wasn't the original point of this thread? maybe you should read back to the original question which is "what is owning a therophosa like?" which people have yet to answer all because of one person who started a flame war over the phrase "tarantulas are intelligent" and at least maudua isn't just enother person in your elitist club or in this case the "nu uh!" club

 

[Draiman]

actually no im getting angry for numerous reasons

1. my thread was hijacked when i said i wanted to know what owning a T is like i meant i wanted to know what owning a T is like

Really? Remember this:

I know, it is probably a dumb question to most of you guys but i do not own a theraphosa however they look so adorable and seem so smart i am beginning to wonder what owning one is like. Anyone care to share?

?

You suggested that they "seemed so smart", so the discussions and debate over whether they actually are "smart" are actually ENTIRELY ON-TOPIC.

and who are you to call us naive when you can't tell us what we experienced a claim can't be baseless if it's supported by first hand experience not only that but the scientists you praise so much are ordinary people that started out with a hypothesis and supported it with a first hand experience and thats why we're saying your close minded because you refuse to listen to people with first hand experience that have been working with T's for a long time possibly longer than you not only that but have you considered that maybe just maybe facts derived from opinions that were once persucted by the majority

Uh...no. EXPERIENCES are personal, and are SUBJECTIVE. Scientific, empirical observations are OBJECTIVE.

I'll break it down for you.

"The sun is really bright today!" = a statement derived from an EXPERIENCE
"The sun produces x [amount of light and heat] in a day." = a statement derived from SCIENTIFIC FACT

Do you see the difference?

 

[salsalover]

No, I can accept a claim that is widely accepted by scientists as these studies are actually done on a scientific level, not some observation someone made at home. I haven't proven anything. All I'm doing is backing up those whom I agree with, same thing you, pheonix, and muaduara are doing

it is contradictory because the whole point of being a scientists is making the public aware of an observation inspired by a hypothesis and at this point i have to say it does feel like a personal attack because i've asked you guys once to stop and stick to the topic and if you know my opinion wont change why do you keep persisting why don't you just stop?since there's clearly no changing my mind and you can clearly see that you're starting to upset me and at this point it feels like im being nagged and forced into an opinion just because the majority says its right not everyone is going to go with the majority

 

[malevolentrobot]

have you considered that maybe just maybe debating wasn't the original point of this thread? maybe you should read back to the original question which is "what is owning a therophosa like?" which people have yet to answer all because of one person who started a flame war over the phrase "tarantulas are intelligent" and at least maudua isn't just enother person in your elitist club or in this case the "nu uh!" club

you are talking circles. once again, bring some scientific proof like the numerous people here have kindly (and not so kindly) asked for to the table instead of falling back trying to claim offtopic where your thread has gone.

Uh...no. EXPERIENCES are personal, and are SUBJECTIVE. Scientific, empirical observations are OBJECTIVE.

I'll break it down for you.

"The sun is really bright today!" = a statement derived from an EXPERIENCE
"The sun produces x [amount of light and heat] in a day." = a statement derived from SCIENTIFIC FACT

Do you see the difference?

i couldn't have said it better.

 

[Draiman]

p.s.-if you don't want me to use the term why do you continue trying to force me to agree with you and why do you avoid all of my questions

Nobody's forcing anything on you. All I'm doing is trying to understand your perspective, which is why I am asking you for evidence (personal experiences are NOT evidence; experiences are SUBJECTIVE and OPEN TO INTERPRETATION) to support your view on intelligence in tarantulas.

Me, avoiding your questions? I think you will find I addressed all of them. I am still waiting for answers from you...

 

[salsalover]

You suggested that they "seemed so smart", so the discussions and debate over whether they actually are "smart" are actually ENTIRELY ON-TOPIC.

LOLOLOLOL no hun you guys are actually OFF TOPIC because the thread question i was asking was "whats owning a T like" not "are they smart?" if i wanted to start a debate about that i wouldve posted "are tarantulas smart or not?" instead you guys felt the need to go off topic you just want an excuse to continue your off topic

Uh...no. EXPERIENCES are personal, and are SUBJECTIVE. Scientific, empirical observations are OBJECTIVE.

I'll break it down for you.

"The sun is really bright today!" = a statement derived from an EXPERIENCE
"The sun produces x [amount of light and heat] in a day." = a statement derived from SCIENTIFIC FACT

Do you see the difference?

and yet you assume that all experiences are meaningless in this case pheonixx did test his theory with an objective in mind the objective being "omg can my T really tell the difference between me and....." an experiment doesnt have to be inside a lab which is why pheonixx,maudua and i are saying you're close minded because you limit hypothesis' to a script based on your personal standards of what it should be when in all actuality scientists can't come to conclusions without experience or observation because some hypothesis' are inspired by experience which inspires observations for you to be little our opinions and limit us is unfair scientists are still flawed just like other people theyre not super humans and technically fact is derived and inspired by opinion it's just an opinion supported by observation which means that pheonixxs' story is technically legit

 

[Draiman]

Alright, I think I'm done here.