US Dealer Involved in Smuggling revealed in court documents

[Kirk]

1)Shipping Tarantulas illegally through the USPS is a practice that many of us have done..It is a Federal offence…What I did was failed to declare them when they were being shipped to me from another country... This was done in 2008 and everything I brought in was confiscated and is long gone.

Per document 38-1, Exhibit F, the shipments in question occurred June 2009 (Thailand), October 2009, as well as admission to a total of 15 international shipments in 2009, 23 March 2010 (Thailand), 26 March 2010 (Germany).

 

[Kirk]

On the topic of what's moral or immoral, I place greater weight on instances in which a dealer engages in lies relative to their business operation and provide inconsistent stories. And with regard to consistency of thought, it's illuminating to revisit this thread from almost 1.5 years ago.

 

[Crotalus]

If the spiders were infact wildcaught I too would be upset, but it seems they were not. What upsets me is the real smugglers getting away with plundering wildlife while this person get 10 months for not filling out a few papers.

 

[Kirk]

If the spiders were infact wildcaught I too would be upset, but it seems they were not. What upsets me is the real smugglers getting away with plundering wildlife while this person get 10 months for not filling out a few papers.

Koppler was sentenced to six months, not 10. And it was not a mere matter of not filling out paperwork. It was the matter of avoiding required importation fees. As one cannot discern wc from captive bred, a fundamental common denominator is to ensure regulation of all international shipments.

 

[Crotalus]

As you can see in the documents posted here, there were breeder documents attached which would be proof enough for any custom authority that they spiders are indeed captive bred. So, yes he avoided a few fees. But to my knowledge did not do anything worse then that.

 

[Kirk]

As you can see in the documents posted here, there were breeder documents attached which would be proof enough for any custom authority that they spiders are indeed captive bred. So, yes he avoided a few fees. But to my knowledge did not do anything worse then that.

Oh, the statement from an individual arrested for smuggling is sufficient proof? Had Koppler actually shipped the tarantulas in a legal fashion then customs authorities would have known that.

A few fees? Becker stated in his FWS interview that he knowingly broke federal laws on multiple international shipments because he otherwise would not be able to make a profit. I quoted that passage in an earlier post in this thread and you can read it in one of the exhibits to document 38-1.

Re your knowledge of the crimes committed, you should download document 031111426419, US Attorney Charges, that lists the eight federal counts brought against Koppler. Actual facts simply don't substantiate your claims.

 

[lord lionheart]

Just to put things into perspective for all the self-righteous hobbyists. The state of the US is laughable, no wonder the country is almost bankrupt, morally and financially. People are worried about a few unpaid taxes

http://news.yahoo.com/s/atlantic/20...aidcashgingrichbusiness38810#mwpphu-container

 

[Crotalus]

Kirk, its written documents, not statements. Which are infact the same documents you have to show when exporting animals the legal way.

 

[Kirk]

Kirk, its written documents, not statements. Which are infact the same documents you have to show when exporting animals the legal way.

The documents are immaterial if one is shipping illegally. The purpose is to avoid having the package opened and inspected.

 

[Crotalus]

The documents are immaterial if one is shipping illegally. The purpose is to avoid having the package opened and inspected.

So, let me see if I get this correct - you are not sure if its WC or CB - despite breeder documents plus photographs of mating, eggsack and spiderlings.
You seem to be most upset over the money aspect.
To me this is not even close to wildlife smuggling which the authorities should pay their fully attention towards.
But ok, the government lost a few dollars on non-declared goods and they lost even more in the trial and during the 6 months of jailtime. Absurd.

 

[Kirk]

So, let me see if I get this correct - you are not sure if its WC or CB - despite breeder documents plus photographs of mating, eggsack and spiderlings.
You seem to be most upset over the money aspect.
To me this is not even close to wildlife smuggling which the authorities should pay their fully attention towards.
But ok, the government lost a few dollars on non-declared goods and they lost even more in the trial and during the 6 months of jailtime. Absurd.

Taking the subject of this thread out of context, I then can see your point.

 

[Crotalus]

Taking the subject of this thread out of context, I then can see your point.

The animals should be the focus point here and not wheather a few dealers get ticked off.. :?

 

[campj]

How much are they really importing? Many of the Ts they sell are the products of domestic bred adults. One would have no business sense at all to import a P cambridgei for example given the fact that they are common and cheap within the domestic market since at least the mid 90s.

I really think he pissed people off by charging a lower profit percentile than they do. There is no reasonable explanation for high end pricing a species that has been commonly bred for decades.

I don't agree with everything baboonfan is saying in this thread and I don't support PB (never bought from him, don't know him from the back of my hand), but I know if I were a breeder and had common wholesale slings, I'd be a little bitter if I had a big time dealer offer me $3 ea. for P cambredgei just to turn around and sell them for $20 ea. What is the excuse there? Overhead? Charge higher prices for the spiders you actually import (which in my opinion shouldn't be anything but rare species, as we have plenty of B. smithi and P. irminia CB in America right now), and either pay more for common CB stock bought from breeders, or charge less for them! I'm no businessman, so please school me if I'm wrong.

--Edit--

I guess I could have written everything I wrote, or I could have kept reading the thread just to see that Joe made the exact point I was trying to make:

Dealer's pricing

Do dealers mark up their imported stock to make up for import fees? Sure they do. Do they also mark up their domestic stock? Sure they do. It's been stated several times - it's a free market, buy from whomever you choose. I know for a fact that one dealer has made offers of pennies on the dollar for large quantities of WC domestic arachnids - one species of tarantula that produces 2-3k spiderlings per sac, and others for Florida native/established arachnids. Even though these animals are obtained for pennies, they still see the same markup as the imported stock. Dealers are great for bringing in the first few specimens of newly available stock, but if you want to buy something that's being produced by hobbyists, they're the ones you should be buying from.

Thanks Joe! haha

 

[pocock1899]

To me this is not even close to wildlife smuggling which the authorities should pay their fully attention towards.
But ok, the government lost a few dollars on non-declared goods and they lost even more in the trial and during the 6 months of jailtime. Absurd.

Lets see...

He didn't declare the spiders, got no CITES documents, deliberately had the boxes mis-labled and then had them delivered to friends and family to avoid detection.

...and that's not even close to wildlife smuggling??

Geez! what would they have had to do to smuggle under your definition?

I don't think it's absurd at all that they enforced import laws. I would, however, find it absurd if they based law enforcement decisions on the costs involved.

These guys knew the laws, they thought they could get around them, so they rolled the dice. They lost.

If brown-boxing is a rampant as some people believe, then it might have better for the goverment to make examples out of these two. Personally, I think they're lucky they didn't get stiffer sentences and fines.

As it is, I'm wondering if the other, un-named individuals, are at this moment turning their friends in for other infractions...

What's the world coming to, when you have to wonder who you can trust to break the law for you anymore?!

 

[Spidershane1]

Kudos to you Paul for getting around the importation fees(at least for awhile anyway).
The government has been raping and exploiting the working class for decades, and I hardly feel sorry for them for not wringing a few hundred more dollars out of you.

If you knew that the species you were importing were CB and would've been allowed in this country legally had you paid off the federal goons, then thats all you needed to know.
You don't need to pay the feds to tell you something is right, when you already knew it was right.
You people complaining about breaking laws and whatnot, need to realize why most laws are in place. The vast majority of laws(in the USA anyway) are to turn a profit for the government and/or the rich.
If Paul goes to prison, then it gives to government a free pass to suck more money out of the working mans paycheck under the reasoning of housing him in a federal facility. In reality, only a fraction of what they take from us will be used for his incarceration. The rest? Profit.

Now if you snitched, that is no good & I dont approve. I do not know the details though, so I won't pass judgement at this point in time.

 

[Richard McJimsey]

Kudos to you Paul for getting around the importation fees(at least for awhile anyway).
The government has been raping and exploiting the working class for decades, and I hardly feel sorry for them for not wringing a few hundred more dollars out of you.

If you knew that the species you were importing were CB and would've been allowed in this country legally had you paid off the federal goons, then thats all you needed to know.
You don't need to pay the feds to tell you something is right, when you already knew it was right.
You people complaining about breaking laws and whatnot, need to realize why most laws are in place. The vast majority of laws(in the USA anyway) are to turn a profit for the government and/or the rich.
If Paul goes to prison, then it gives to government a free pass to suck more money out of the working mans paycheck under the reasoning of housing him in a federal facility. In reality, only a fraction of what they take from us will be used for his incarceration. The rest? Profit.

Yeah, man! How dare The Man oppress us like that, man! Revolution, man, yeah! /sarcasm

 

[Anansis]

Kudos to you Paul for getting around the importation fees(at least for awhile anyway).
The government has been raping and exploiting the working class for decades, and I hardly feel sorry for them for not wringing a few hundred more dollars out of you.

If you knew that the species you were importing were CB and would've been allowed in this country legally had you paid off the federal goons, then thats all you needed to know.
You don't need to pay the feds to tell you something is right, when you already knew it was right.
You people complaining about breaking laws and whatnot, need to realize why most laws are in place. The vast majority of laws(in the USA anyway) are to turn a profit for the government and/or the rich.
If Paul goes to prison, then it gives to government a free pass to suck more money out of the working mans paycheck under the reasoning of housing him in a federal facility. In reality, only a fraction of what they take from us will be used for his incarceration. The rest? Profit.

What a twisted perspective. I guess all that profit is why the US is bankrupt.

 

[xhexdx]

What a twisted perspective. I guess all that profit is why the US is bankrupt.

No kidding.

"It's ok to lie/cheat/steal to save money, but a snitch is bad."

:wall:

 

[Kirk]

Kudos to you Paul for getting around the importation fees(at least for awhile anyway).
The government has been raping and exploiting the working class for decades, and I hardly feel sorry for them for not wringing a few hundred more dollars out of you.

If you knew that the species you were importing were CB and would've been allowed in this country legally had you paid off the federal goons, then thats all you needed to know.
You don't need to pay the feds to tell you something is right, when you already knew it was right.
You people complaining about breaking laws and whatnot, need to realize why most laws are in place. The vast majority of laws(in the USA anyway) are to turn a profit for the government and/or the rich.
If Paul goes to prison, then it gives to government a free pass to suck more money out of the working mans paycheck under the reasoning of housing him in a federal facility. In reality, only a fraction of what they take from us will be used for his incarceration. The rest? Profit.

Now if you snitched, that is no good & I dont approve. I do not know the details though, so I won't pass judgement at this point in time.

It should come as no surprise why the global ranking of US education has fallen to 14th.

 

[Bill S]

...and that's not even close to wildlife smuggling??

Geez! what would they have had to do to smuggle under your definition?

I'm going to make a wild guess here that it involves the smuggling of wild animals (as opposed to captive born animals).