tarantula torture with a smily face is the dark den the new exotics lair?

waynerowley

Arachnosquire
Joined
Apr 5, 2021
Messages
78
If I recall correctly.

if it were abuse, which it wasn't.
I consider it abuse because it's unnecessary experimentation on animals that are under his care. When someone owns a pet - whatever the animal - they have certain responsibilities:
  • To provide food and water
  • Appropriate housing in an appropriate environment for the animal
  • See to any medical needs (as far as possible)
  • To try your best to give it the best life for as long as it has it! What this is ultimately depends on the animal of course. For Ts I think it means giving them an appropriate enclosure, with food, water, at an appropriate temperature, maintaining that enclosure, moving them to larger ones when needed... and otherwise to leave them alone cos they get nothing from human interaction!
If Petko was seriously interested in learning about how well tarantulas can swim there is I am sure plenty of scientific literature he could study and also observations in the wild.

I have no doubt that many Ts can manoeuvre in water - to escape fire/predators, if they fall/jump from a tree into water, or if there is a flood.

But our pets will never be in those situations so it's completely unnecessary to experiment on them in that way.

For that video the spiders were removed for their enclosure for no reason other than public spectacle and entertainment. To what degree they experienced stress or fear - we'll never know. But why take the chance of putting an animal in our care under potential stress for no good reason?

To fill another slot in your weekly YouTube schedule?

Whether they were harmed or not, to me, that counts as abuse.

Wayne
 

JDS123

Arachnosquire
Joined
Aug 26, 2017
Messages
118
I consider it abuse because it's unnecessary experimentation on animals that are under his care. When someone owns a pet - whatever the animal - they have certain responsibilities:

To provide food and water
Appropriate housing in an appropriate environment for the animal
See to any medical needs (as far as possible)
To try your best to give it the best life for as long as it has it! What this is ultimately depends on the animal of course. For Ts I think it means giving them an appropriate enclosure, with food, water, at an appropriate temperature, maintaining that enclosure, moving them to larger ones when needed... and otherwise to leave them alone cos they get nothing from human interaction!
If Petko was seriously interested in learning about how well tarantulas can swim there is I am sure plenty of scientific literature he could study and also observations in the wild.



I have no doubt that many Ts can manoeuvre in water - to escape fire/predators, if they fall/jump from a tree into water, or if there is a flood.



But our pets will never be in those situations so it's completely unnecessary to experiment on them in that way.



For that video the spiders were removed for their enclosure for no reason other than public spectacle and entertainment. To what degree they experienced stress or fear - we'll never know. But why take the chance of putting an animal in our care under potential stress for no good reason?



To fill another slot in your weekly YouTube schedule?



Whether they were harmed or not, to me, that counts as abuse.



Wayne
With these tarantulas, not all other pets, but with Tarantulas in particular like this video, I see no abuse and the only part I did not like is pushing in the bottle and hokding the bottle under, other that bit of pushing, I think, along with many others the cork bark test was great.

The fights over them swimming or handling water in particular ways are never settled or properly studdied elsewhere, just some hear says and a few clips or papers.

Each species reacted a little different.

It was a good experiment for the most part, some was pushy.

We disagree unfortunately.

I do see potential down the line for having larger enclosures with possible shallow water pools possibly or other ideas through learning a bit more here, mostly by what species look like it's second nature vs which ones say forget this, i mean it's all about evolving a little.

I certainly see how at first it can seem kind ehhhhhhhhhh, I was about to struggle a bit too, but then saw the cork bark raft and was impressed, the rest i was a little ehhhhhhhh so I still hear where your coming from.

I tried to see it your way only, but I still come back to believing no way was this abuse. I think he was pretty careful.

Was HIS intent for views, I dont care, did I learn alot from the video, yes, and I think we can learn more, carfuly, but still.

Do I want ppl making vids like this for views, no.

I just dont want it to become a trend.

I would like to see this experiment polished up and carefully continued. I don't care who does it, but I would like to see more species and how good or bad they are, or the characteristics they show.

However polish the experiment up a bit.

Sry to disagree, I do know where you are coming from, but as a guy like me who cries if my fish dies, rescues animals weekly, picks a dying bee off the ground to let it live safely out of the road while its suffering, i still see no abuse here, just pry some iritation if anything and we dont even know how much of that a T feels, as much as I want to believe otherwise, when I cry if one of mine dies, and I talk to them like they undrrdtand me, from what science says just about every move they make is instinctual.

IDK, sry typing fast, multitasking, sloppy.

Its ok we disagree, imagine how many people have over the evolution of pet keeping.

I did tell him he can delete the hate and bashers but to please leave the comments from those who maturely disagree and can talk it out.

Everyone should get to voice on it.
 
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Godbold Exotics

Arachnopeon
Joined
Apr 2, 2018
Messages
8
As a “content creator”, I don’t back the whole educate through sensationalism thing. And yes, I use the term “content creator” as tongue and cheek. A lot of good points have been made, but at the end of the day, I feel like animals are simple in how their brains work - they think in terms of need, and I imagine have no comprehension of “wants”. With that in mind, I feel like the experiment, was not with the animals best interest in mind. To the spider, there is no understanding that Petko isn’t trying to harm them, that it’s merely an experiment. To the spiders, it only knows that what is being done, is unnatural and foreign to their “needs”. I’m no Tarantula Whisperer, but I would think placing them in water causes undue stress. To me, it’s like taking a fish, placing it on dry land, only to see how it will react; all the while having no intensional of letting it die out of water. At the end of the day, the fish doesn’t know that. Like someone said, abuse is abuse…
 

JDS123

Arachnosquire
Joined
Aug 26, 2017
Messages
118
As a “content creator”, I don’t back the whole educate through sensationalism thing. And yes, I use the term “content creator” as tongue and cheek. A lot of good points have been made, but at the end of the day, I feel like animals are simple in how their brains work - they think in terms of need, and I imagine have no comprehension of “wants”. With that in mind, I feel like the experiment, was not with the animals best interest in mind. To the spider, there is no understanding that Petko isn’t trying to harm them, that it’s merely an experiment. To the spiders, it only knows that what is being done, is unnatural and foreign to their “needs”. I’m no Tarantula Whisperer, but I would think placing them in water causes undue stress. To me, it’s like taking a fish, placing it on dry land, only to see how it will react; all the while having no intensional of letting it die out of water. At the end of the day, the fish doesn’t know that. Like someone said, abuse is abuse…
yeah but does it feel like Petko is doing this to it, or does it jus know through instinct that it's happening so it better react......and what about fishing in general, catch and release.....i mean that's some major stress on the fish training horses to take a saddle and get on them to ride, leaving our dogs at home when they clearly want to go with us, i mean the list is eternal........i'm hearing you, and respect, just curious your thoughts, i see your points but really think their stress is so different and i mean not even close to a reptile and such, but still learning, even after 30 years keeping, but idk man, i'm listening though, still keeping my view for now.
 
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TJ 68

Arachnopeon
Joined
Apr 10, 2021
Messages
41
If I recall correctly.



I consider it abuse because it's unnecessary experimentation on animals that are under his care. When someone owns a pet - whatever the animal - they have certain responsibilities:
  • To provide food and water
  • Appropriate housing in an appropriate environment for the animal
  • See to any medical needs (as far as possible)
  • To try your best to give it the best life for as long as it has it! What this is ultimately depends on the animal of course. For Ts I think it means giving them an appropriate enclosure, with food, water, at an appropriate temperature, maintaining that enclosure, moving them to larger ones when needed... and otherwise to leave them alone cos they get nothing from human interaction!
If Petko was seriously interested in learning about how well tarantulas can swim there is I am sure plenty of scientific literature he could study and also observations in the wild.

I have no doubt that many Ts can manoeuvre in water - to escape fire/predators, if they fall/jump from a tree into water, or if there is a flood.

But our pets will never be in those situations so it's completely unnecessary to experiment on them in that way.

For that video the spiders were removed for their enclosure for no reason other than public spectacle and entertainment. To what degree they experienced stress or fear - we'll never know. But why take the chance of putting an animal in our care under potential stress for no good reason?

To fill another slot in your weekly YouTube schedule?

Whether they were harmed or not, to me, that counts as abuse.

Wayne
I would love to see Pictures or even Videos of your Free Range Ts, Surely, You're NOT Keeping them Locked up Against their Will? Also.. Where do You get your self sacrificing Crickets and Dubias. (they have Rights Too)
 

waynerowley

Arachnosquire
Joined
Apr 5, 2021
Messages
78
I would love to see Pictures or even Videos of your Free Range Ts, Surely, You're NOT Keeping them Locked up Against their Will? Also.. Where do You get your self sacrificing Crickets and Dubias. (they have Rights Too)
Come on my friend, as you are fully aware keeping tarantulas as pets ‘free range’ would be detrimental to their care.

As for feeding live food that’s a whole different subject/debate that I’m not getting into now. But since you’ve brought the subject up, I do hope you are vegetarian/vegan, don’t wear leather, and have never kept other meat eating animals (cats, dogs…).

More than happy to debate, but at least try some sensible arguments.

Wayne
 

JDS123

Arachnosquire
Joined
Aug 26, 2017
Messages
118
Come on my friend, as you are fully aware keeping tarantulas as pets ‘free range’ would be detrimental to their care.

As for feeding live food that’s a whole different subject/debate that I’m not getting into now. But since you’ve brought the subject up, I do hope you are vegetarian/vegan, don’t wear leather, and have never kept other meat eating animals (cats, dogs…).

More than happy to debate, but at least try some sensible arguments.

Wayne
well he's right though about how we argue about being so sensitive about Ts when our argument is what's right for the animal, we smash heads of crickets, grab roaches and squash em with prongs, pull crickets legs off for slings, shake them up in a bag of powder for reptiles, yank baby rodents from their mothers for reptiles, catch and release fish for sport, feed live terrified feeders to fish, as you can see the swimming frantically for their lives,.........and my thing is partly and it may sound silly, but even a cricket could be a pet for a little kid, put some young ones in a fixed up enclosure and what's the difference, why is a cricket or roach and so forth so less cared about, just cuz they are plentiful and what, made by the universe or God just to be food......look at the absolute intelligence of an octopus and we just yank em and gobble em up, they eat tarantulas all day too, bleh lol,

Don't read too much into this, but yeah look at how we are with dogs and cats and other pets, but when it comes down to Ts with the most primitive brain of them all, everyone is treating them so crazy hyper sensitive.

I love mine, watched my pulchra for hours molting last night and talk to them like an idiot lol.

I'm just saying something is very strange in the T community, absolutely take care of your Ts and protect them, amen to that, but i just see a strange level of extra sensitivity towards the Ts that ppl don't even have with the rest of the creatures, and their reasoning is always stress, or what's best for the animal lol, then we judge the hell out of someone who clearly loves all their animals, but doesn't believe the same way as the next guy, as far as what's stress and what isn't.

It's just getting sad because someone can keep and care for and Ts for many years and then others find out he's poking it with his hand or holding it to rehouse or scooting it with a paint brush to move it, or misted it and nope, now they are going to hell lmao.

but my main point is the actual stress we put on so many animals especialy ones with real emotions, but then with Ts, people are insanely hyper sensitive all the sudden.

then the reaction from them is like anyone who disagrees is a monster and doesn't care about the T.

hey man by the way, clearly all of this is not directed at you personally so please don't take it that way, i'm just talking in general.

take care bro

I'm afraid most people own spiders because of YouTube...😬
that's quite a good thing for the lifestyle hobby whatever, as long as they don't just copy everything they see. They should always gather as much info as possible.
 

waynerowley

Arachnosquire
Joined
Apr 5, 2021
Messages
78
well he's right though about how we argue about being so sensitive about Ts when our argument is what's right for the animal, we smash heads of crickets, grab roaches and squash em with prongs, pull crickets legs off for slings, shake them up in a bag of powder for reptiles, yank baby rodents from their mothers for reptiles, catch and release fish for sport, feed live terrified feeders to fish, as you can see the swimming frantically for their lives,.........and my thing is partly and it may sound silly, but even a cricket could be a pet for a little kid, put some young ones in a fixed up enclosure and what's the difference, why is a cricket or roach and so forth so less cared about, just cuz they are plentiful and what, made by the universe or God just to be food......look at the absolute intelligence of an octopus and we just yank em and gobble em up, they eat tarantulas all day too, bleh lol,

Don't read too much into this, but yeah look at how we are with dogs and cats and other pets, but when it comes down to Ts with the most primitive brain of them all, everyone is treating them so crazy hyper sensitive.

I love mine, watched my pulchra for hours molting last night and talk to them like an idiot lol.

I'm just saying something is very strange in the T community, absolutely take care of your Ts and protect them, amen to that, but i just see a strange level of extra sensitivity towards the Ts that ppl don't even have with the rest of the creatures, and their reasoning is always stress, or what's best for the animal lol, then we judge the hell out of someone who clearly loves all their animals, but doesn't believe the same way as the next guy, as far as what's stress and what isn't.

It's just getting sad because someone can keep and care for and Ts for many years and then others find out he's poking it with his hand or holding it to rehouse or scooting it with a paint brush to move it, or misted it and nope, now they are going to hell lmao.

but my main point is the actual stress we put on so many animals especialy ones with real emotions, but then with Ts, people are insanely hyper sensitive all the sudden.

then the reaction from them is like anyone who disagrees is a monster and doesn't care about the T.

hey man by the way, clearly all of this is not directed at you personally so please don't take it that way, i'm just talking in general.

take care bro
The morality/ethics of feeding animals to other animals/pets is a deep subject, which is why I didn't really want to get into it (and it's also not relevant for this particular topic/issue). Whatever your personal beliefs or morality, the truth of our life on this world, in this universe is that most life lives on the consumption of other life (even plants are life).

Tarantulas live exclusively off of other inverts (generally, yeah I know there are some that might take small mammals/reptiles) which means if we want to keep them we need to, and are morally obliged, to feed them appropriate food. I do also believe that - like another other animal intended for food (human or otherwise) we should treat them well and when the time comes slaughter them in a way the minimises suffering.

Even if you're keeping dogs and cats - you are feeding them meat. You probably haven't killed it yourself, but you're trusting someone else to do that for you...?

In the UK a common pet animal is the guinea pig. I am aware than in other parts of the world (e.g. Peru), guinea pigs are reared for human food. That doesn't mean it's okay in the context of the UK to kill, cook and eat your pet guinea pig. It's been bought as a pet and should be treated as such.

But as I said, this is not really the point in this respect.

It's about Petko's morality in how he keeps his Ts, what he does with them/to them and why.

- Did the Ts need to be placed in water as part of their needs/care? No.
- Did they benefit from the experience? No
- Was there the possibility/risk of harm coming to one of the Ts? Yes

And that makes you wonder why he did it.

And the only reason I can think of was he thought it was a cool idea for his video channel.

Do you really think he would have done the same thing to his pets if he did not have that channel?

Highly unlikely in my opinion.

So he was prepared to risk the wellbeing of his pets, for the sake of Likes, Clicks and (if he's monetising) cash.

Wayne
 

JDS123

Arachnosquire
Joined
Aug 26, 2017
Messages
118
The morality/ethics of feeding animals to other animals/pets is a deep subject, which is why I didn't really want to get into it (and it's also not relevant for this particular topic/issue). Whatever your personal beliefs or morality, the truth of our life on this world, in this universe is that most life lives on the consumption of other life (even plants are life).

Tarantulas live exclusively off of other inverts (generally, yeah I know there are some that might take small mammals/reptiles) which means if we want to keep them we need to, and are morally obliged, to feed them appropriate food. I do also believe that - like another other animal intended for food (human or otherwise) we should treat them well and when the time comes slaughter them in a way the minimises suffering.

Even if you're keeping dogs and cats - you are feeding them meat. You probably haven't killed it yourself, but you're trusting someone else to do that for you...?

In the UK a common pet animal is the guinea pig. I am aware than in other parts of the world (e.g. Peru), guinea pigs are reared for human food. That doesn't mean it's okay in the context of the UK to kill, cook and eat your pet guinea pig. It's been bought as a pet and should be treated as such.

But as I said, this is not really the point in this respect.

It's about Petko's morality in how he keeps his Ts, what he does with them/to them and why.

- Did the Ts need to be placed in water as part of their needs/care? No.
- Did they benefit from the experience? No
- Was there the possibility/risk of harm coming to one of the Ts? Yes

And that makes you wonder why he did it.

And the only reason I can think of was he thought it was a cool idea for his video channel.

Do you really think he would have done the same thing to his pets if he did not have that channel?

Highly unlikely in my opinion.

So he was prepared to risk the wellbeing of his pets, for the sake of Likes, Clicks and (if he's monetising) cash.

Wayne
I see your point but many non youtubers do in fact do lots of these things with pets, Ts or not, and don't have videos of it.

I'm connected to hundreds of ppl in the community with Ts but especialy herps and everyone does things without posting videos.

Did he do it only for clicks, idk, but i learned a lot, and his emotions were flying and he doesn't fake his emotions, he's like a child at heart still, so idk, of course these ppl want the clicks, but look, if someone who over the past has shown his love for the animals, crying over his chameleon passing and many more situations, i try to see through some of the BS. I can see where your coming from though.

But we also know guinea pigs like to hide in their caves and such, and are spooked easy, have actual fear and are jumpy, but we let kids carry them all over and such,and ppl don't trip on that but a T with a far different biology wefreak out some pretty minute things. Sry i know that was separate but just saying.

i see how you can have this view though, i still think we mostly don't agree but i'm just trying to see every view possible.
 

TJ 68

Arachnopeon
Joined
Apr 10, 2021
Messages
41
The morality/ethics of feeding animals to other animals/pets is a deep subject, which is why I didn't really want to get into it (and it's also not relevant for this particular topic/issue). Whatever your personal beliefs or morality, the truth of our life on this world, in this universe is that most life lives on the consumption of other life (even plants are life).

Tarantulas live exclusively off of other inverts (generally, yeah I know there are some that might take small mammals/reptiles) which means if we want to keep them we need to, and are morally obliged, to feed them appropriate food. I do also believe that - like another other animal intended for food (human or otherwise) we should treat them well and when the time comes slaughter them in a way the minimises suffering.

Even if you're keeping dogs and cats - you are feeding them meat. You probably haven't killed it yourself, but you're trusting someone else to do that for you...?

In the UK a common pet animal is the guinea pig. I am aware than in other parts of the world (e.g. Peru), guinea pigs are reared for human food. That doesn't mean it's okay in the context of the UK to kill, cook and eat your pet guinea pig. It's been bought as a pet and should be treated as such.

But as I said, this is not really the point in this respect.

It's about Petko's morality in how he keeps his Ts, what he does with them/to them and why.

- Did the Ts need to be placed in water as part of their needs/care? No.
- Did they benefit from the experience? No
- Was there the possibility/risk of harm coming to one of the Ts? Yes

And that makes you wonder why he did it.

And the only reason I can think of was he thought it was a cool idea for his video channel.

Do you really think he would have done the same thing to his pets if he did not have that channel?

Highly unlikely in my opinion.

So he was prepared to risk the wellbeing of his pets, for the sake of Likes, Clicks and (if he's monetising) cash.

Wayne
I apologize for the Rudeness of my last post.Although I was taking a side.. It was ment to be Humerous, not Offensive or Serious. I Didn't think it was Abuse and wanted to cast Vote. Sorry to Anyone I Upset... TJ
 

JDS123

Arachnosquire
Joined
Aug 26, 2017
Messages
118
I apologize for the Rudeness of my last post.Although I was taking a side.. It was ment to be Humerous, not Offensive or Serious. I Didn't think it was Abuse and wanted to cast Vote. Sorry to Anyone I Upset... TJ
Rude? nah. You made good points and funny at the same time, and there's a difference from rude, and being snobby and insulting vs what you said.

Easy to get irritated with people and read eachother wrong in typings on forums. Would be much better in person.
 

Arachnophobphile

Arachnoangel
Active Member
Joined
Dec 24, 2018
Messages
806
IMO 👈
Could it be that alot of these past subscribers left these youtoobers???? Maybe their subscribers got real husbandry knowledge and moved on.

That would make sense why these youtoobers are getting more extreme with their animals, it's all to attract more viewers.

If anyone wants to view T videos on youtoob then only watch Tom Moran.

When new keepers get more experience and correct knowledge under their belt over the years they will see through the poor husbandry videos on youtoob and hopefully not watch or sub to them. Do I dare say even go out and correct them.

If people really care about their animals they will be very protective of them. They will not purposefully antagonize, harm or stress them in any way. This is a good rule to follow with treatment of any animals you see videos of anywhere.

If people like a particular youtoober and feel they are being attacked don't be insulted. People that REALLY care for their animals go out of their way to make sure no harm comes to them. I tell those individuals gain more knowledge and view these videos under that light, maybe you'll see then.

There's already too much negative opinions out there publicly and from government branches on tarantula keepers and imports already and more regulation restrictions.

The more people whether on youtoob, in private or ER visits from doing stupid things for entertainment purposes with tarantulas the more it hurts us T keepers as a whole. So when you see theatrics like on YT by these people know it hurts everyone but mainly the animals they are doing it to.
 

JDS123

Arachnosquire
Joined
Aug 26, 2017
Messages
118
IMO 👈
Could it be that alot of these past subscribers left these youtoobers???? Maybe their subscribers got real husbandry knowledge and moved on.

That would make sense why these youtoobers are getting more extreme with their animals, it's all to attract more viewers.

If anyone wants to view T videos on youtoob then only watch Tom Moran.

When new keepers get more experience and correct knowledge under their belt over the years they will see through the poor husbandry videos on youtoob and hopefully not watch or sub to them. Do I dare say even go out and correct them.

If people really care about their animals they will be very protective of them. They will not purposefully antagonize, harm or stress them in any way. This is a good rule to follow with treatment of any animals you see videos of anywhere.

If people like a particular youtoober and feel they are being attacked don't be insulted. People that REALLY care for their animals go out of their way to make sure no harm comes to them. I tell those individuals gain more knowledge and view these videos under that light, maybe you'll see then.

There's already too much negative opinions out there publicly and from government branches on tarantula keepers and imports already and more regulation restrictions.

The more people whether on youtoob, in private or ER visits from doing stupid things for entertainment purposes with tarantulas the more it hurts us T keepers as a whole. So when you see theatrics like on YT by these people know it hurts everyone but mainly the animals they are doing it to.
I dont know man, i just think as much as we can love our Ts, we literally worry more about stressing the animal that stresses the least likely, vs all the other animals in the world, that actualy do stress and have emotions.

I mean even Tom Moran in his podcasts admits to how insanely sensitive and worried ppl are about their Ts.

I personally think even Tom is more sensitive at times than needed, but he admits thousands of ppl think he is.

I love him, but we gotta remember, there is no one and only Tarantula God of keeping but we certainly have some basics we all live by based on what can kill them or truly hurt them over time.

Who is the all mighty that comes down and says you, me or anyone else in these forums is right or wrong or in-between....

I personally think these tubers care more than you and others think.

I love mine to death, if I started making videos would i act differently for clicks or treat them differently no, but now you would see my vids and asume its for clicks and thats why Im doing tarantulas, but no ive done them 30 years and im just gonna be me on youtube.

Either way, i hear ya, thanks for bein chill about it
 

Arachnophobphile

Arachnoangel
Active Member
Joined
Dec 24, 2018
Messages
806
I dont know man, i just think as much as we can love our Ts, we literally worry more about stressing the animal that stresses the least likely, vs all the other animals in the world, that actualy do stress and have emotions.

I mean even Tom Moran in his podcasts admits to how insanely sensitive and worried ppl are about their Ts.

I personally think even Tom is more sensitive at times than needed, but he admits thousands of ppl think he is.

I love him, but we gotta remember, there is no one and only Tarantula God of keeping but we certainly have some basics we all live by based on what can kill them or truly hurt them over time.

Who is the all mighty that comes down and says you, me or anyone else in these forums is right or wrong or in-between....

I personally think these tubers care more than you and others think.

I love mine to death, if I started making videos would i act differently for clicks or treat them differently no, but now you would see my vids and asume its for clicks and thats why Im doing tarantulas, but no ive done them 30 years and im just gonna be me on youtube.

Either way, i hear ya, thanks for bein chill about it
Thanks for replying,

Yes and no, (not saying that in a smart aleck way) I think certain ones on Youtoob do and others clearly do not, like 'Exotic L'. Only using T's as a stage prop.

Aside from all that is the image being portrayed to the public.

These animals are very fragile yet possess alot of strength. I don't think I need to dive into that. I believe members here already understand that.

It doesn't take much to injure/kill them. Regardless of all that I believe in portraying a positive image to the public how amazing and fascinating these animals are.

Tarantula keepers are a very small community unlike mammals and reptiles among some.

I do not share with everyone I come in contact with that I have T's. The public still holds a stigmata against people who do keep them whether admitting it to your face or
thinking it. I've run into enough to know to keep it to myself. Lord if it even comes out that I have a roach colony people lose their mind over that. About the only people I ever ran into that are accepting of T keeping are snake, reptile and other invert owners.

When I seen in the past people free handling a wild H. maculata with it jumping off his hand to the ground, volunteering to be bit by an adult G. pulchra - 3 guys did that taking turns, free handling an adult P. metallica or the rest related to those it sets me off. Those are some examples of immense negative public exposure and to the animals themselves that I seen in the past just on Youtoob.

It's all about what a creator wants/is portraying to the public about tarantulas and what possible physical injuries or death could be a result.

No current member here attacks another on a personal level. Husbandry is heavily critiqued though as this is the #1 site for correct and up-to-date husbandry information. It does no good for the community to turn on each other. There is a plethora of incorrect bad husbandry info out there, (looking at facebk as well).

To each their own and not everyone even agrees with me either. No one can tell anyone what they 'Need' to do but can recommend what is best.
 

JDS123

Arachnosquire
Joined
Aug 26, 2017
Messages
118
Thanks for replying,

Yes and no, (not saying that in a smart aleck way) I think certain ones on Youtoob do and others clearly do not, like 'Exotic L'. Only using T's as a stage prop.

Aside from all that is the image being portrayed to the public.

These animals are very fragile yet possess alot of strength. I don't think I need to dive into that. I believe members here already understand that.

It doesn't take much to injure/kill them. Regardless of all that I believe in portraying a positive image to the public how amazing and fascinating these animals are.

Tarantula keepers are a very small community unlike mammals and reptiles among some.

I do not share with everyone I come in contact with that I have T's. The public still holds a stigmata against people who do keep them whether admitting it to your face or
thinking it. I've run into enough to know to keep it to myself. Lord if it even comes out that I have a roach colony people lose their mind over that. About the only people I ever ran into that are accepting of T keeping are snake, reptile and other invert owners.

When I seen in the past people free handling a wild H. maculata with it jumping off his hand to the ground, volunteering to be bit by an adult G. pulchra - 3 guys did that taking turns, free handling an adult P. metallica or the rest related to those it sets me off. Those are some examples of immense negative public exposure and to the animals themselves that I seen in the past just on Youtoob.

It's all about what a creator wants/is portraying to the public about tarantulas and what possible physical injuries or death could be a result.

No current member here attacks another on a personal level. Husbandry is heavily critiqued though as this is the #1 site for correct and up-to-date husbandry information. It does no good for the community to turn on each other. There is a plethora of incorrect bad husbandry info out there, (looking at facebk as well).

To each their own and not everyone even agrees with me either. No one can tell anyone what they 'Need' to do but can recommend what is best.
your a good dude.

I have my issues too, i dont think ppl should keep trying all the comunal stuff, because it works most of the time, but other times animals die, im listening to a podcast right now from Richard interviewing a lady who was like the 10th member here, who did a failed experiment with Avics comunal, yet shes saying how hundreds of ppl keep trying it, sad.

But yeah man, i hear ya.

I certainly have bounderies, just maybe not as strict as others.

I have a major T hook up here in my town and hes got 5 or 6 juvi balfouri for like 300 bucks for the comunity, and they are gorgeous but I just tmdont trust the comunal thing yet, I love my Ts and will be sad if the turn into Hanibal Lecter lol.

Yeah were all different, i got some amazing podcasts I will post soon on some of this stuff with real scientists, Ill link you guys to them....cool thoughts and info.
 
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AphonopelmaTX

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
May 7, 2004
Messages
1,816
In this situation, I can't help but wonder if everyone's reaction here would be the same if he had published this experiment in a paper instead of trying to make the information more available to the public in an easily consumed format.
I think what is getting people upset and influencing some to interpret the video as torture, abuse, or general mistreatment of the tarantulas is that there are no results that could be published in any kind of journal. Scientific research can be descriptive, correlational, or experimental. As interesting as it is to see a number of tarantulas swim, and the water proofing of their bodies, there really was nothing descriptive, correlational, or experimental about it. When you compare the Dunlop article published in the ATS Forum magazine with the video the differences become very apparent. Dunlop briefly describes how tarantulas swim and compares it to walking which follows a brief review of the conditions that would cause them to swim in the first place. The Dark Den video basically puts tarantulas in water to see what happens based on an article he read online. If the Dark Den video followed the same format as a scientific paper by conducting a literature review first, then focused on the locomotion of the legs while the tarantulas swam I believe the video would have been received differently.
 

lindale450

Arachnopeon
Joined
Dec 18, 2022
Messages
47
This thread is going to make me watch that video, I seen it but from the headline page it did look kinda click bait type material and I scrolled past.
 
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