tarantula torture with a smily face is the dark den the new exotics lair?

[JDS123]

i just can’t see why this would be okay to do. this information was already available, it isn’t a new discovery that needed to be tested by a guy with a camera and a storage bin

what more is there to learn that an article or video filmed in the wild couldn’t provide?

learned which ones won't readily take off and swim, which ones totally will, which one couldn't cuz it was too heavy.

Some things i learned.

I mean we know dogs can swim, but some can't hardly at all, but if have a pool we try and get them to learn in case they fall in, and nobody flips out about that.

not directed at you but just saying

 

[waynerowley]

learned which ones won't readily take off and swim, which ones totally will, which one couldn't cuz it was too heavy.

Hmm, perhaps you could use a similar experiment to find out what cats can fly by throwing them out of an upstairs window?

No. Should not have been done. Needless, reckless. Nobody would even think about keeping Ts in an aquatic enclosure. They're not aquatic. Therefore no need to find out which of your pet Ts can swim.

I mean we know dogs can swim, but some can't hardly at all, but if have a pool we try and get them to learn in case they fall in, and nobody flips out about that.

Actually I would if someone just picked up their dog and placed it in water against the dog's will. Some dogs hate the water and won't go near it. Don't make them. Some dogs love the water - make sure they can only access it in a controlled and safe environment.

Sorry, you can't defend the indefensible.

Wayne

 

[JDS123]

Hmm, perhaps you could use a similar experiment to find out what cats can fly by throwing them out of an upstairs window?

No. Should not have been done. Needless, reckless. Nobody would even think about keeping Ts in an aquatic enclosure. They're not aquatic. Therefore no need to find out which of your pet Ts can swim.



Actually I would if someone just picked up their dog and placed it in water against the dog's will. Some dogs hate the water and won't go near it. Don't make them. Some dogs love the water - make sure they can only access it in a controlled and safe environment.

Sorry, you can't defend the indefensible.

Wayne

Dude stop twisting peoples words.

Cats don't fly so there goes your first come back, just a sad stretch random comeback to a legit statement by me.

Then, for the dog thing, yeah sorry but if you have a pool you teach your dog to swim, the same way you teach your child to swim, and yes, your child will likely be terrified, but you do it so they don't drown some day, same as your dog.

Also, yes, many ppl keep Tarantulas with small water features and many ppl are interested if they made an enclosure with a bigger water feature with some fish and such, what species would be good and not be in danger, we are learning a ton here, it's how we've grow even just the 30 years or more I've been in it, we are still evolving man.

Clearly you know about science what my 85 year old diabetic grandma knows about gymnastics, so I'll ignore this "no matter what you say" in your words.


Everyone does everything for money is probably one of the stupidest things I've heard. Yeah no crap.. some people murder for money, some people rob banks for money, doesn't mean it's suddenly ok. It's also probably unwise to be someone's cheerleader just cause they're on YT. I don't watch his videos regularly cause he acts like an idiot. In one video with tarantula Kat he suggested they add more worms to a container before buying it, essentially shoplifting lol. But this is by far his stupidest and cruelest one so yeah I don't watch his videos.


Not expecting you to understand, but I'm an advocate for quality over quantity. If he's gonna bring more people to the hobby by giving them the impression that it's ok to test stupid ideas on animals, including forced submergence in water, I'd much rather he doesn't. I've seen enough disturbing tarantula videos on TikTok and in IG reels and the last thing we need is an idiot giving kids more horrible ideas. I'd appreciate what he's doing if he was properly educating people.


I try to be as polite as possible for the circumstances, but if you think that what this guy did to amuse his audience and get views and likes compares to cancer and vaccine research done on lab animals then you're about as bright as a pile of bricks. Believe it or not, there are regulatory bodies that ensure lab animals are treated humanely, and subjected to only as much stress as is required for the study (the study in question usually aiming to further our understanding of medicine, not doing stupid crap for no good reason). I don't care if someone is in a lab coat or not, I care about them acting professionally and for a good reason.


Good grief this is beyond pathetic.


I hope that one day you'll grow up and understand that what someone does to their pets hurts me in no way, shape, or form. The reason it upsets me is because I care about the animals and don't think that it's ok for humans to treat them like they're objects or toys.


Just because they won't immediately drown and die doesn't mean it's ok to stress them out like this. Darkden said in previous videos that he doesn't like handling his Ts cause it stresses them out, then he decided that while handling is stressful, dunking them in water is somehow perfectly fine. I'm sorry if he's you're crush or something, but he's an idiot and a hypocrite.

So your first quote was just an insult, knowing nothing about my history and studies along with breeding and keeping herps, fish and Ts over 30 years, just an insult out of emotions.

Your next reply, you didn't even get my point about everyone does things for money, you made up your own point, however mine was since you said he just did it for money, my point is I don't care what his motive was, I care about what we learned from it, and like most of the ppl on youtube, lots of them were doing these things like T Kat said, way befor youtube videos. I've kept and bred all this stuff for 30 years and could have been making money on youtube, but don't have time, but I still do it. Point is, people making videos for money, and others getting value out of it can go together.

Then, you talk quality over quantity, and him bringing thousands of people to the hobby just to dunk their Ts in water, there it is again, your just all flared up, the guy has made so many amazing videos it's crazy and clearly takes great care of his animals as a hobbiest admitting not to be an expert constantly and always asking for advice, makes incredible enclosures for each animal, but yeah this one video, or other vids as an armature hobbiest you find flaws in, now you say he's a waste of human flesh. Again, easy on the coffee.


then you claim i compared this to cancer research, again your all flared up and not seeing clear, the only point is, wether you got your rodent police making sure the animals are not over stressed or not, please, I work in technology at all the hospitals around here and LA county, I know and hear plenty, the point was experiments are experiments, that's how we came this far in the hobby, vs making your tarantula drink from a sponge or it will drown. Cancer research or not, the rodents shot up and tested with all kinds of drugs is not a trip to the fair for your sweet rodents, and also, since you know guys like us so well, after 30 years of feeding snakes, I still feel pain in my heart every feeding for a life lost, even though it's frozen, which also pains me, but you wouldn't think that of me would you.....

then you say it's pathetic that i said your bashing this guy who clearly has shown he's got a good heart. He loves animals. In hopes you can see past a few things he's done that you disagree with, but no your just so angry.

Then you say you hope i grow up and realize humans shouldn't treat their animals like toys, well I'm way past that, hence the getting into animals and nature so young and still enjoying it while rescuing animals and joining fights to stop animal abuse regularly but nah, you just base your vast knowledge of me on this disagreement.

then you just bring up more things he's said that clashed with his past comments. Well, like the rest of us he's evolving too, you've never been a hypocrite before? You never change from year to year, month to month, heck I liked ketchup on burgers last year, told everyone it's the best, now I tell people it's gross, but in seriousness, I've educated people with certain reptiles and had to go back and state my changes in beliefs.


then, do i have a crush on him?
Well at 47 I didn't think I would have to answer questions like that to another adult but no, no I don't.

He's by no means a perfect person and I told you I did not necessarily like all of the video, but I know how much good he has done for the community just by the hundreds of thousands of positive comments over the years. Not like the crap you mention on Tiktok and such.

Anyways, if you come back, which I find no reason for since we already know we disagree with eachother, try and do it without the insults and such.
I really wanted to lay down dirt too but I'm not, so try the same.

 

[ant ramblings]

Will the copy cats have now started dunking tarantulas for likes .Westsidereptiles .
So at least he learnt something from dark den i suppose .
That pretending you don't already know that tarantulas are hydrophobic and making an excited comentary gets you thousands of likes.

 

[DustyD]

Cats don't fly so there goes your first come back, just a sad stretch random comeback to a legit statement by me.

But cats do apparently land on their feet when falling from a height. Maybe a more apropos or comparable scientific experiment to what dark den did would be to see what species of cat lands best on its feet and from what heights they do so.

 

[JDS123]

Will the copy cats have now started dunking tarantulas for likes .Westsidereptiles .
So at least he learnt something from dark den i suppose .
That pretending you don't already know that tarantulas are hydrophobic and making an excited comentary gets you thousands of likes.

But cats do apparently land on their feet when falling from a height. Maybe a more apropos or comparable scientific experiment to what dark den did would be to see what species of cat lands best on its feet and from what heights they do so.

that's unfortunate about the copy cats. I looked him up, I can't even get through 10 seconds of his short videos, nightmare.
and as far as the cats landing on their feet, still quite the stretch, pretend you had to argue against your own statement, I'm sure you'll see why.

 

[DustyD]

nd as far as the cats landing on their feet, still quite the stretch, pretend you had to argue against your own statement, I'm sure you'll see why.

Ok, so you want me to come up with your response? Are your fingers tired/hands cramped from all the typing you have done?

I am sure that somewhere in this world someone
has tested the falling cat theory. But I am not convinced that is proper science. Just like Petk.

 

[JDS123]

Ok, so you want me to come up with your response? Are your fingers tired/hands cramped from all the typing you have done?

I am sure that somewhere in this world someone
has tested the falling cat theory. But I am not convinced that is proper science. Just like Petk.

no not tired, just seemed the differences would be so obvious that it wouldn't be necessary.

Actually am fighting some health issues pretty bad at the moment so pry part of it idk, anyways, Petko or not, we clearly learned from it.

I just dont see how someone can be extreme one sided here, like I said, i didnt care for all of it.

 

[TJ 68]

you really need to calm your attitude down. This is not youtube comment section. Don't need this type of bashing here.

I can come back with all the arguments and insults to you but the admins are trying to stop all that so i'm playing nice, but your certainly asking for it.

I'm just going to bite my tongue instead of argue with the way i would like to right now.

You Should just Let it Go , Friend. This guy is exaggerating and twisting the facts. Its Not about Intelligent Debate at this point. I Remember a Story about a Monk who, Found himself standing in on Ant Mound. He refused to move for fear of Hurting any Living thing. To Many He was a Hero (Not to his family he left behind i'm sure) But to Me He was just an Idiot that died in an Ant Pile.
In America and Croatia CB Ts are personal Property and you are free to do what you like with them. I take Great care with all my pets. I dont cuddle them or think the are human or try to be friend with them. But that's me. I live in the real world not online. In either place there will be Those that cant accept that they cant control you or your Opinion.
Ive Read enough of your post to Know you are Adept and Intelligent. Arguing with a 3rd Grade Mentality is Beneath You.
Take Care and Be Good.. TJ68

 

[JDS123]

You Should just Let it Go , Friend. This guy is exaggerating and twisting the facts. Its Not about Intelligent Debate at this point. I Remember a Story about a Monk who, Found himself standing in on Ant Mound. He refused to move for fear of Hurting any Living thing. To Many He was a Hero (Not to his family he left behind i'm sure) But to Me He was just an Idiot that died in an Ant Pile.
In America and Croatia CB Ts are personal Property and you are free to do what you like with them. I take Great care with all my pets. I dont cuddle them or think the are human or try to be friend with them. But that's me. I live in the real world not online. In either place there will be Those that cant accept that they cant control you or your Opinion.
Ive Read enough of your post to Know you are Adept and Intelligent. Arguing with a 3rd Grade Mentality is Beneath You.
Take Care and Be Good.. TJ68

Yeah as you see I try to see things from all sides, sometimes, most of the time things are not black and white.

Something I learned 30 years ago or so was to always pretend your having to debate against someone with your beliefs, now you have to fight for the opposing side, see what you come up with, it suprises people.

I just wish they would relax and talk as if we were driving in a car together out feild herping or something.

Nope lol, its usually die hard one side or the other, most cant admit when things just are, and there are pros and cons to almost everything.

I personally dont think ppl should be able to do "whatever" they want with them if their seen as property and i am against animal abuse, but like i said the raft part was good, the rest a little forceful to me but did it show a dark evil animal abusing man, not innmy opinion, ive seen him care too much.

Even spending a week daily cleaning a spiders anus trying to get it un blocked, then sad as heck after it died, and he burried it in his yard.

I mean ppl gotta grow up.

Like you said, best to just move on from them if they cant see through all the bull.

 

[TechnoGeek]

Cats don't fly so there goes your first come back

What an intelligent rebuttal! Yeah cats don't fly but we all know tarantulas dive, especially terrestrial and arboreal species.

Then, for the dog thing, yeah sorry but if you have a pool you teach your dog to swim, the same way you teach your child to swim, and yes, your child will likely be terrified, but you do it so they don't drown some day, same as your dog.

Do me a favor and promise me you'll never touch a dog with a 10 foot pole. Where I live, if someone reports you for forcing a dog into a pool against its will you could be charged with animal cruelty. Not to mention you'd be one messed up psycho. Forcing animals into stressful situations is never justifiable.

Also, yes, many ppl keep Tarantulas with small water features and many ppl are interested if they made an enclosure with a bigger water feature with some fish and such, what species would be good and not be in danger, we are learning a ton here, it's how we've grow even just the 30 years or more I've been in it, we are still evolving man.

Thanks for letting me know that some people are crazy enough to consider keeping tarantulas in filled aquariums.

So your first quote was just an insult, knowing nothing about my history and studies along with breeding and keeping herps, fish and Ts over 30 years, just an insult out of emotions.

I'm not in the business of buttering up people. The way you think he was conducting anything remotely approaching what could pass for a scientific experiment shows you don't understand much about science. Even if you've been keeping pets for years that doesn't automatically mean you understand science.

and clearly takes great care of his animals as a hobbiest admitting not to be an expert constantly and always asking for advice, makes incredible enclosures for each animal, but yeah this one video, or other vids as an armature hobbiest you find flaws in, now you say he's a waste of human flesh. Again, easy on the coffee.

Taking great care of a terrestrial species by dunking it in water surely makes great sense. This isn't even his first horrible mistake, when he made a video of his chameleon lots of people told him his husbandry was terrible and he just deleted their comments and didn't change anything.

Yeah I am an amateur hobbyist, and so is he (except he's much worse) and so are you. It's not like he's a scientist or an entomologist.

then you just bring up more things he's said that clashed with his past comments. Well, like the rest of us he's evolving too, you've never been a hypocrite before? You never change from year to year, month to month, heck I liked ketchup on burgers last year, told everyone it's the best, now I tell people it's gross, but in seriousness, I've educated people with certain reptiles and had to go back and state my changes in beliefs.

Keep cheerleading for him. No, I've never went from advising people against stressing their pets to waterboarding tarantulas. Not planning on doing it neither.

Its Not about Intelligent Debate at this point.

You got that right, there was nothing intelligent about defending this sort of behavior in the first place.

In America and Croatia CB Ts are personal Property and you are free to do what you like with them.

Keep the torture going then! Don't lemme stop you.

The bottom line is, you're free to support this terrible behavior all you want, just don't call it science and don't call it an experiment. Scientists have studied all kinds of animal behaviors without forcing animals into doing anything. For example, when scientists wanted to study the effects of reintroducing wolves to Yellowstone on coyote populations they didn't lock up a coyote and a wolf and film a YouTube video while cackling like maniacs. When they wanted to investigate accounts alleging wolverine predation on adult deer they didn't set up fights between a wolverine and a deer. The way it's done is by observing NATURAL behavior in the wild, there's no value to any data obtained by forcing the animal into a situation where it has no choice but to do what you want it to do.



Here's how another YouTuber investigated the question of whether tarantulas can swim without needing to dunk them in water:

 

[JDS123]

What an intelligent rebuttal! Yeah cats don't fly but we all know tarantulas dive, especially terrestrial and arboreal species.


Do me a favor and promise me you'll never touch a dog with a 10 foot pole. Where I live, if someone reports you for forcing a dog into a pool against its will you could be charged with animal cruelty. Not to mention you'd be one messed up psycho. Forcing animals into stressful situations is never justifiable.


Thanks for letting me know that some people are crazy enough to consider keeping tarantulas in filled aquariums.


I'm not in the business of buttering up people. The way you think he was conducting anything remotely approaching what could pass for a scientific experiment shows you don't understand much about science. Even if you've been keeping pets for years that doesn't automatically mean you understand science.


Taking great care of a terrestrial species by dunking it in water surely makes great sense. This isn't even his first horrible mistake, when he made a video of his chameleon lots of people told him his husbandry was terrible and he just deleted their comments and didn't change anything.

Yeah I am an amateur hobbyist, and so is he (except he's much worse) and so are you. It's not like he's a scientist or an entomologist.


Keep cheerleading for him. No, I've never went from advising people against stressing their pets to waterboarding tarantulas. Not planning on doing it neither.


You got that right, there was nothing intelligent about defending this sort of behavior in the first place.


Keep the torture going then! Don't lemme stop you.

The bottom line is, you're free to support this terrible behavior all you want, just don't call it science and don't call it an experiment. Scientists have studied all kinds of animal behaviors without forcing animals into doing anything. For example, when scientists wanted to study the effects of reintroducing wolves to Yellowstone on coyote populations they didn't lock up a coyote and a wolf and film a YouTube video while cackling like maniacs. When they wanted to investigate accounts alleging wolverine predation on adult deer they didn't set up fights between a wolverine and a deer. The way it's done is by observing NATURAL behavior in the wild, there's no value to any data obtained by forcing the animal into a situation where it has no choice but to do what you want it to do.



Here's how another YouTuber investigated the question of whether tarantulas can swim without needing to dunk them in water:

not reading your post, i got as far as you telling me not to touch a dog because i know its good that ppl with pools teach them to swim. Dogs swim, but you need to make sure if you have a pool, so you bring it in with you and get it used to getting out on its own. Unless its like a bulldog type that physically cant do it then you get fencing around the pool or never leave it alone, Ive know ppl whos have drowned.

Do a simple google search if you should teach your dog to swim, go ahead.

You make little kids learn to swim, and most are terrified.

Its to save their lives same as the dogs.

I cant believe Im having to explain this to a human being lololololololol

Dang I wasted so much time with you dang it lol

Other dude was right, I gotta learn to ignore people.

Would be different if we just disagreed, but wowzers lolololol

And yeah Richard is a great guy.


I will be keeping my debates for the regular intellectuals on here.

Ignore me please.

sry I stole these emojis from you know who, now I know why he uses them lol

 

[waynerowley]

You Should just Let it Go , Friend. This guy is exaggerating and twisting the facts. Its Not about Intelligent Debate at this point. I Remember a Story about a Monk who, Found himself standing in on Ant Mound. He refused to move for fear of Hurting any Living thing. To Many He was a Hero (Not to his family he left behind i'm sure) But to Me He was just an Idiot that died in an Ant Pile.
In America and Croatia CB Ts are personal Property and you are free to do what you like with them. I take Great care with all my pets. I dont cuddle them or think the are human or try to be friend with them. But that's me. I live in the real world not online. In either place there will be Those that cant accept that they cant control you or your Opinion.
Ive Read enough of your post to Know you are Adept and Intelligent. Arguing with a 3rd Grade Mentality is Beneath You.
Take Care and Be Good.. TJ68

I've just looked at all of your replies to this thread. I see plenty of sarcastic replies but nothing approaching intelligent debate from you.

Rather than engaging in debate you've now sunken to accusing others of exaggeration, twisting facts and 3rd grade mentality (I assume that's insulting, but I'm in the UK and our school years are different).

If you feel the need to do this in response to reasonable comments, you've already lost the debate.

When people resort to these kind of tactics its usually because there is nothing to debate. As I said above - you can't defend the indefensible.

Wayne

 

[Smotzer]

This nonsense deserves a few of these

 

[JDS123]

I've just looked at all of your replies to this thread. I see plenty of sarcastic replies but nothing approaching intelligent debate from you.

Rather than engaging in debate you've now sunken to accusing others of exaggeration, twisting facts and 3rd grade mentality (I assume that's insulting, but I'm in the UK and our school years are different).

If you feel the need to do this in response to reasonable comments, you've already lost the debate.

When people resort to these kind of tactics its usually because there is nothing to debate. As I said above - you can't defend the indefensible.

Wayne

Nope, the guy is right, the other guy just keeps exaggerating and stretching everything over the top. Impossible to debate with someone who can't at least get grounded first onto the playing field.

Once he starts saying to promise never to touch a dog again, because me, and about 95 percent of the world agree a dog should learn to swim if you have a pool they can drown in, is animal cruelty, how do you debate with that person anymore..........and then he says Petko is a waste of human flesh and compared him to serial killers, how is that a health debate anymore, it's not, you can't even start the debate till that mentality is matured and cleared up.

also, your entire post was just basing this guy, with absolutely nothing to do with the topic or anything he's said, maybe do that in a private message to him.

 

[klawfran3]

This nonsense deserves a few of these

I almost posted that but didn't want to get caught in the crossfire... Too late now that I posted this, I guess!

 

[TechnoGeek]

I've just looked at all of your replies to this thread. I see plenty of sarcastic replies but nothing approaching intelligent debate from you.

Rather than engaging in debate you've now sunken to accusing others of exaggeration, twisting facts and 3rd grade mentality (I assume that's insulting, but I'm in the UK and our school years are different).

If you feel the need to do this in response to reasonable comments, you've already lost the debate.

When people resort to these kind of tactics its usually because there is nothing to debate. As I said above - you can't defend the indefensible.

Wayne

I would let it go at this point. I usually debate people if and only if I can hope for something positive to result from it. These 2 are now just cheerleading for darkden in incoherent language, and posting some the dummest things I've read in my life. Comparing teaching dogs to swim to what darkden did was when I told myself that enough is enough lol. It was already bad enough comparing it to academic research, but apparently we needed a cherry on top at this point the person you're debating either is trolling, or lacks the ability to understand the most basic concepts.

 

[Smotzer]

I almost posted that but didn't want to get caught in the crossfire... Too late now that I posted this, I guess!

No worries, just blame me

 

[JDS123]

I would let it go at this point. I usually debate people if and only if I can hope for something positive to result from it. These 2 are now just cheerleading for darkden in incoherent language, and posting some the dummest things I've read in my life. Comparing teaching dogs to swim to what darkden did was when I told myself that enough is enough lol. It was already bad enough comparing it to academic research, but apparently we needed a cherry on top at this point the person you're debating either is trolling, or lacks the ability to understand the most basic concepts.

See here you go again.

You don't even understand what people are telling you, while your on your rampage of calling people a waste of human flesh and comparing some to serial killers.

That right off the bat makes nobody want to take you serious because you can't debate without wild childish insults.

The dog comparison was after you claimed how stressed the spiders were. It was explaining to you that Tarantuals don't have even remotely the emotion and stress the humans or even dogs and such do, yet the vast majority of the world with pools teaches dogs and children to swim,that do have those stress levels, unlike the primitive tarantula brain, and it's widely accepted to do that. To just seeing how a Tarantula can swim for less than a minute.

^^^^^^^this point alone most ppl would say yeah I mean I see what your getting at, but your not even comprehending it.

Then the only comparison to research was how all the rodents are put through hell and back, wether it's for cancer research or not, rodents have far superior brains than tarantulas and just because it's for cancer research and such, people are like eh, it's just a rat.

^^^^^^^ this point most ppl are like yeah i get that too, however.......

but no you are also not comprehending that either

your replies clearly show that your not even comprehending others replies.

your twisting them into what you want.

your literally not seeing and understand the points, it's extremely bizarre.

it makes you impossible to debate with.

my goal, like most peoples goals that debate as adults, is to see things from all angles and grasp the things you might not like, but you are nowhere near that for some reason.

I mean you went on about teaching a dog to swim to be landing a person in jail for animal cruelty.

So I thought hm, I'll be a grown up and research that, just to find I'm right and your comment was crazy.

A simple google search landed thousands of hits to absolutely teach and make sure your dog can swim if they are around rivers, ponds, lakes and pools.

I mean you gotta learn to chill and slow down when your reading others posts, take it in and know that your either not grasping their post properly, maybe they worded it bad, whatever the case, but you literally are not grasping things properly.

I almost posted that but didn't want to get caught in the crossfire... Too late now that I posted this, I guess!

your in it now man, sleep with one eye open lololol

 

[Arachnopets]

ADMIN NOTE:

Not sure why this always needs to be repeated, but here we are.

Attack the argument, NOT the person.


So what have we all learned here?

- You each feel that the other person does not understand what is being said.
- People will have opposing views (what a shocker). It's bound to happen. It also does not make any one side more valid than the other.
- It is perfectly acceptable to be passionate about your viewpoint (as long as the rules are followed).
- It is also perfectly acceptable to agree to disagree (ie: I see what you are saying, however I vehemently disagree).

You can get your points across without belittling the other person. It's not that difficult, I promise. If you feel it is, then refrain from commenting at all.

You know the old adage, if you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all ...