T. Blondi Meets unlucky Anole !

[nightbreed]

Oh here we go with the "scientific studies" BS! Do you have proof to back up your opinion ? Give me a break everyone knows live food is better for them, i dont hear of people freezing there crics for full size T's. do you?
I said you were cryin, whats more humane? freezing an animal to death or from venom from a Taratula snake etc etc....... Besides doesnt it take longer to freeze to death?
and for your info i wouldnt let any animal suffer what so ever.

P.S.S me too.

Scienctific studies are BS? I'm glad you told me, to think of all that time I wasted believing in gravity and evolution.

I have as much proof as you do, all I know is all my animals are fed F/T mice and rats and they are thriving, thats all the proof I need.

We dont worry about using prekill cricks because they dont feel pain!

Feeders aren't frozen to death they are killed with carbon dioxide, they just go to sleep.

And yes if you feed live verts you do allow animals to suffer, I'm sorry to break it to you but you do.

read >this<

 

[jbrd]

that link is someones opinion and how to swtch to F/T not a scientific study.
i wasnt saying scientific study are BS! I guess i needed more spaces there in my literature.
I was sayin BS! to your statement.
Besides sarcasim dont suit you in your last post.

 

[becca81]

Regardless of the pain/moral issue, feeding live *does* have risks since the prey can harm the predator, which is one of the main reasons you will find on the 'net that many people feed F/T vertebrate.

Thinking of a T as a "pet," usually means that you want to put it at as little risk of harm as possible. Feeding F/T is safer than feeding live.

The possibility of harm coming from small invertebrate that are fed to your T is very small if you make sure to not feed in pre-molt.

 

[becca81]

Oh here we go with the "scientific studies" BS! Do you have proof to back up your opinion ? Give me a break everyone knows live food is better for them, i dont hear of people freezing there crics for full size T's. do you?

Food is food - makes no difference nutrient-wise whether or not it is live or F/T.

Besides, there is actually no need to feed a T anything other than invertebrate prey. Even T. blondi can thrive on large crickets alone.

 

[nightbreed]

that link is someones opinion and how to swtch to F/T not a scientific study.
i wasnt saying scientific study are BS! I guess i needed more spaces there in my literature.
I was sayin BS! to your statement.
Besides sarcasim dont suit you in your last post.

Didn't say it was a scientific study, I already said I had as much proof as you,
I just thought you might find the "how to kill" bit interesting, note no mention of freezing to death, I thought the section on "why to feed killed" may of been enlightening also.

Ahhh so it was BS to my statement, ok, glad to see you read my posts mull them over and come back with an informed argument, instead of just dismissing them out of hand

You haven't explained why you believe live food to be better for your preds, do you have a reason? I'm not trying to be sarcastic or abusive, I just wonder what brings you to that conclusion.

P.S surena, I'm sorry for hijacking your thread.

 

[Windchaser]

Food is food - makes no difference nutrient-wise whether or not it is live or F/T.

This may not be entirely true. I believe that freezing can result in a slight loss of the nutritional content of meat. If something were freshly killed, or only frozen for a very short period of time, then I believe your statement is true. I do believe that there is some loss of nutritional content for items frozen for long periods of time. It might be negligible though. Perhaps someone has more information on this subject.

 

[nightbreed]

This may not be entirely true. I believe that freezing can result in a slight loss of the nutritional content of meat. If something were freshly killed, or only frozen for a very short period of time, then I believe your statement is true. I do believe that there is some loss of nutritional content for items frozen for long periods of time. It might be negligible though. Perhaps someone has more information on this subject.

I think you may be right with the frozen food = less nutritional content thing, I think it depends on how much time there is between killing and freezing, if you know what I mean. And its nothing an occasional bit of vit powder wont cure.
That still leaves the "fresh kill em yourself" option though

 

[jbrd]

it's my opinion...so there.......

 

[Python]

Out of all the argument for or against, I haven't seen anything scientific for either side, so if it's alright by everyone, how about we leave science out of it (that is until someone can come up with any scientific evidence to support either side). The fact of the matter as far as I am concerned is 1) not everybody feeds live prey for entertainment 2)people are going to do what they want regardless of what any of us say 3)alot of the arguments on this thread are biased and without foundation of any kind. I pretty much stated my case outright. I feed live sometimes becasue it's available. No I don't kill it and no I've never had any of my T's come to harm (pinkies have no teeth nor enough strength to do any damage). I think this is a huge waste of space and I don't think the first person will come up with any scientific evidence that proves on way or another. If I am wrong then so be it but until I see something pro or con that is definitive, my routines will not alter.

 

[becca81]

I'm sorry, but I think the request for scientific evidence here is ridiculous. There has been no proposal or hypothesis that would call for an experiment - it's just about personal preference and morals regarding the feeding of live vertebrate.

 

[becca81]

This may not be entirely true. I believe that freezing can result in a slight loss of the nutritional content of meat. If something were freshly killed, or only frozen for a very short period of time, then I believe your statement is true. I do believe that there is some loss of nutritional content for items frozen for long periods of time. It might be negligible though. Perhaps someone has more information on this subject.

You're correct that some nutritional value would be lost if the prey is frozen past a certain period of time, but I think that it would be negligible for most of the feeders used by hobbyists. There is a point, of course, after which they shouldn't be fed.

 

[Python]

I'm sorry, but I think the request for scientific evidence here is ridiculous. There has been no proposal or hypothesis that would call for an experiment - it's just about personal preference and morals regarding the feeding of live vertebrate.

I have seen this argument before and it always turns into a "you first" match with each side begging for scientific evidence from the other side. My point was, if neither side can produce it, why bring it up? On the other hand, if either side can produce it, why have they not done so?

 

[xgrafcorex]

my 2 cents

well i have yet to even try feeding anything other than crickets. i believe on the occasion(if i had a large species) i would feed it a small mouse or lizard...if my t will eat either id probably get whatevers cheapest or if live were barely more i would get live food. i agree about the freezing, nutrients, well everything, begins to deteriorate after life is over but as long as you dont let them lay around in room temp for a while, it should be an insignificant loss. night you mentioned the nutrient dust for crickets and such .... i have no experience with it myself but ive read that since the t's pierce the outer layer and do the regurgitation and then just slurp out the liquid inside...most of the dust isn't taken in. then again i haven't found any bits of cricket remains after 4 or 5, so maye mine did eat the whole thing.

 

[Apocalypstick]

I was wondering who had a cricket tell them they "don't feel pain"? Pain is a safety mechanism for all creatures.... why would insects be any different???

As far as feeding other live items, eg. lizards, chicks, etc.... I guess it's up to each individual to decide on such matters. I feed my T a pinkie (less than 48 hrs old) live about every three months. My belief is it has unique nutritional value, it should be live = fresh , and I don't do it for my entertainment.
However, I do it for my T's enjoyment.... she loves them and it is a special treat for MY pet... and MY pet comes first, before a pinkie or any other edible food for my fanged friend.

I know this has been hashed over many times.... but it never hurts to discuss our thoughts and concerns about our somewhat odd choice of housemates. Any aspect concerning care of our precious pets is worth many debates. No one seems to be 'arguing'. Let's talk...that's what forums like this exceptional one is built on

 

[becca81]

I was wondering who had a cricket tell them they "don't feel pain"? Pain is a safety mechanism for all creatures.... why would insects be any different???

You're confusing pain with a response to stimuli. Pain isn't a safety mechanism for all creatures. Responding to stimuli isn't pain in invertebrates and it's been hashed out repeatedly on the forums.

Do a search on pain and read through the threads, paying close attention to what Code Monkey says, as he explains it the best.

 

[Crunchie]

I must admit I also have a fly chuckle about folk shouting "but it happens in nature" as well. Sadly your pet isn't in nature any more, it's in your house so that argument to me is irrelevent.

 

[jbrd]

what a worthless thread this has turned out to be, everyone has an opinion and does what they feel is right for there pets, well most of the people out there do.

 

[Scott C.]

.....

What do you guys feed your Goliath ? Mine won't even look at a cricket !

Nice T.

 

[cacoseraph]

Yep dead is dead, but given the choice I'd go with carbon dioxide poisoning where you just go to sleep, over being crushed or eaten alive by a large predator, but maybe thats just me.

i'd want a chance to go down fighting!

i'd want my final chance to hurt the world for hurting me!

but i might be a particularily bitter little mouse

...fighting or smothered to death in playmates!

 

[cacoseraph]

Food is food - makes no difference nutrient-wise whether or not it is live or F/T.

Besides, there is actually no need to feed a T anything other than invertebrate prey. Even T. blondi can thrive on large crickets alone.

if i can think of one reason why live is better than dead, do i win?

here is my reason:

as far as i can tell, all living creatures with more than say, a million cells, have *other* creatures living inside them, bacteria and other bigger organisms. when any animal dies it starts to rot. rotting is, in part, these bacteria and what not blooming, as the host animals living processes no longer keep them in check. any dead animal has a much larger potential of having some gnarly growth, even if frozen... unless it is brought down to like -100*F, as lots of little nasties can surving cold in hibernation like states.

F/T as so many ppl like to tout as this great thing is a dead animal left to warm up and further rot, that you want your pet to eat...

and that is one good reason why live is better that F/T