Robc bitten by a P.regalis.

[Johnnyj]

I agree with Natureboy. When it comes to dangerous things, there are many factors used to gauge readiness. The number one is responsibility, and while age is what I consider to be a "loose" gauge of responsibility due to life experience, it cannot be the only factor. My father put a rifle in my hands when I was 10, by the time I was 13 I had my own and knew how to disassemble/reassemble it, load/unload it, and had access to it whenever I wished to go shooting. Because I was brought up by damn good parents I never injured myself or anyone else with it.

Now, at age 26, I have a selection of firearms but I just got my first really "dangerous" T (a cobalt) in the mail. Heh. If this young man is responsible, which he seems to be, I most definately say keep the pokie. Maybe one day I will man up and buy one as well. (A pet hole, even an "aggressive" one, seemed a better first choice than a defensive arboreal) =) =) =)

 

[Talkenlate04]

I have to agree with the DORK. Lol.

Everyone is losing sight of who is responsible when a child gets hurt (yes 13 is a child no matter how you slice it). Even in the case of a tarantula bite it is not just the kids fault, blame will fall on the parents as well if he has to go to the hospital. And it was pointed out already I don't know of anyone that young that has taken a good bite from a pokie, do you? I highly doubt it. So with that said there is no way you can claim to know what is or is not going to happen to someone that young. Who knows what that would do.

 

[Johnnyj]

I have to agree with the DORK. Lol.

Everyone is losing sight of who is responsible when a child gets hurt (yes 13 is a child no matter how you slice it). Even in the case of a tarantula bite it is not just the kids fault, blame will fall on the parents as well if he has to go to the hospital. And it was pointed out already I don't know of anyone that young that has taken a good bite from a pokie, do you? I highly doubt it. So with that said there is no way you can claim to know what is or is not going to happen to someone that young. Who knows what that would do.

True, but well....as cheesy as it sounds...Im the person who believes ships are safe in the harbour - but thats not what ships are made for. If we make the argument, from a strictly LEGAL sense...that it would be unwise for parents to allow minors to keep potentially dangerous animals, I can see your point. It just reminds me how much I thoroughly despise our litigious society. Pretty soon, in the name of legal protection, we will have fireworks (I had those at 13 too), pumpkins with REAL candles, BB guns, and everything else thats good old fashioned dangerous fun inside a glass case at the Ministry of Safety. =P

 

[Venom]

First, I doubt he'd appreciate being referred to as a child. Legally he may be, but a 13 year old is no "kid".

Yes, he is a child. It doesn't matter what he is referred to as, he is biologically immature, and, more than likely, behaviourally immature also. Ergo, a child.

Second, why should we assume that effects of pokie venom would be more severe on him than a 45 year old? A 45 year old Vietnamese man might weigh less than him. He may be in better shape than many adults and his system better equipped to combat the effects of the venom.

It is mostly a matter of weight and health, not so much age. I am assuming ( reasonably, I think ), that a 13 year old will be of a fairly small build. ( he's a kid, remember..). This results in the venom being more concentrated in his system than it would be if he were larger ( assuming that GENERALLY, adults are larger than 13 year-old kids ). A 45 year Vietnamese man? TNB, you are ridiculously stretching this. Lots of other factors come into play with that, like time to build cardiovascular and respiratory fitness. The main thing is responsibility, and keeping with a clear understanding of risk. Generally speaking, a child has a greater risk from ALL venomous animals than the normal adult. Children, generally speaking, are also not known for their ability to make adult decisions, in this case, regarding the risks of keeping venomous in relation to enhanced vulnerability to the venom due to being a child. A 45 year old man is much better equipped to decide if he can rationally take the risk, weighing health factors and increased or decreased susceptibility to the venom. A child is both more vulnerable, and less responsible, generally.

My point is that there are quite a few variables in play here--a universal dictate that someone his age shouldn't keep pokies is unwarranted.

It's a rule of thumb, and a generally good idea that kids don't keep venomous animals. SOME 13 year-olds might be better able to deal with the responsibility or skill issue--say, if he were the 13 year old son of Steve Irwin, or some such person. But that will NOT affect his susceptibility to venom. SAFETY is the NUMBER ONE concern with venomous animals: not what you THINK you can avoid, but what COULD happen IF you are envenomated. The keeper who counts on *never* being stung/ bitten is irresponsible, regardless of skill level. One should only ever keep what one is prepared to be envenomated by. Kids are more vulnerable, due to size alone, all else aside. The threshold of what a kid can safely keep is, therefore, correspondingly lower than what an adult could responsibly keep.

And, we know that while pokie venom is very nasty stuff, there is no record of anyone ever dying from a bite.

A more likely scenario than a life-ending envenomation is a serious envenomation resulting in a trip to the ER. We don't need that kind of publicity. Do you want kids putting themselves at risk of what RobC experienced, or worse, because they read online it was "ok" to for them to keep Poecs? Sorry, they can wait a few years. THAT won't hurt them..

A bite from the family cat could lead to an infection that could do more harm. He could hunt with a rifle and risk a deadly accident.

Neither of which is a fair comparison.

If he is mature and responsible and has a healthy respect for the animal I don't see why he shouldn't be allowed to keep one.

Because 13 year olds don't make good decisions about their risk-taking. And their biology in regard to the venom remains the same. Unless the kid is a Daniel Boone, parents should prevent their children from taking unnecessary risks like this.


Sorry TNB, but you are dangerously wrong on this!!

 

[billy28]

Very good point Matt, I agree!!!

thank you!

 

[billy28]

I'm gonna side with venom on this one. I don't think a 13 yr old should be taking care of a pokie. Not because he is not responsible but because I have no idea what the effects of pokie venom will do to a 13 yr old. We've seen many experienced keepers here get bit already. No matter how careful a person is, people are prone to making mistakes. With that in mind, we've heard grown men suffering side effects for years after a bite- how will the venom affect a child? Will there be permanent damage done to a child for the rest of his life? Who knows. I'd rather err on the side of caution. A child can still learn all the good things this hobby has to offer by keeping something like an avic.

i have multiple avics, haplos, chilobrachys, lasiodoras, and multiple pokies. trust me, i can handle the pokies

 

[billy28]

I personaly think that age is not excuse or indicator for anything (as long as you are not 5). I know 14 year olds that drive better than 35 year old people, and my 11 year old goddaughter is far more responsible than some 40 year old people i know. So if he is confident doing that, and know what he is doing, know the risks and everything, i don't see why argue about it. Every time you do something, you assume the resposability of what you are doing

read my signature for more information lol

thank you to

 

[the nature boy]

precautions, precautions, precautions...

thank you!

Absolutely. No "go out there" and be as responsible as an adult (it won't take much to be more so than me, lol). You do not want to be bitten by this species.

Matt

 

[billy28]

Absolutely. No "go out there" and be as responsible as an adult (it won't take much to be more so than me, lol). You do not want to be bitten by this species.

Matt

I know that. i hand feed all of my t's and it will take a pokie bite to stop me. I promise everyone on this forum I will never be bitten by any pokie

 

[Venom]

I know that. i hand feed all of my t's and it will take a pokie bite to stop me

Let us know how that goes...:wall: :wall:

I rest my case about children making responsible decisions.

 

[billy28]

Let us know how that goes...:wall: :wall:

I rest my case about children making responsible decisions.

i completely agree with you with your theory about children. I have never been bitten in all of my hand feeding. I guess theirs always a first.

sorry to highjack the thread

 

[the nature boy]

Hand feeding pokies does not fall under the category of taking every precaution. Your call, man.

--the nature boy

 

[billy28]

Hand feeding pokies does not fall under the category of taking every precaution. Your call, man.

--the nature boy

i like you

 

[T_DORKUS]

i have multiple avics, haplos, chilobrachys, lasiodoras, and multiple pokies. trust me, i can handle the pokies

Billy28,
Many experienced keepers here will tell you that if you stay in this hobby long enough, you will get bit. This is not a testament of their husbandry skills or lack thereof. Fact of the matter is humans make mistakes. All humans do. Some (like NB ;P ) make more than others! The risk here is no one knows what the effects of pokie venom will have on you (or any other 13 yr old.) Chances are the effects will be worse on you than on an adult (and RobC will testify to how bad that is) Since there's a good chance that sooner or later you will get bitten, it is not a good idea to keep any old world species as we do not know how dangerous it is to you. As they say, better safe than sorry. Having said all that, I know most of it you will not like to hear and most likely carry on keeping all your old world species. So good luck and grow up quickly before you get bitten!

 

[billy28]

Billy28,
Many experienced keepers here will tell you that if you stay in this hobby long enough, you will get bit. This is not a testament of their husbandry skills or lack thereof. Fact of the matter is humans make mistakes. All humans do. Some (like NB ;P ) make more than others! The risk here is no one knows what the effects of pokie venom will have on you (or any other 13 yr old.) Chances are the effects will be worse on you than on an adult (and RobC will testify to how bad that is) Since there's a good chance that sooner or later you will get bitten, it is not a good idea to keep any old world species as we do not know how dangerous it is to you. As they say, better safe than sorry. Having said all that, I know most of it you will not like to hear and most likely carry on keeping all your old world species. So good luck and grow up quickly before you get bitten!

Sorry, but OW are to much fun to give up . I plan on being bitten sooner than later but not by an OW sp. But you never know. Im generally more cautious around OW

 

[T_DORKUS]

Billy28,
Here are some things that will help you not get bitten while you are growing up bigger and stronger than a 45 yr old Vietnamese man...

1) Do not hand feed your T's! I know it's cool and all that but it REALLY increases your chances of being bitten.

2) Do not hold your T's- when you mentioned you can handle them, I sincerely hope you did not mean you were letting them crawl on your hands. Holding a T is not a testament to your skill, only your willingness to risk a bite.

3) Do not stick your hands into a T's cage- always use a long pair of tweezers/forceps/chopsticks etc.

4) Always know where your T is before you open the enclosure. Key word here is KNOW and not guess or assume. Not always possible but do make every effort to see them before you open the enclosure.

5) Do not keep your T's in your bedroom if you can - should you make the mistake of not closing one of your T enclosures properly, at least you won't have an escapee sleeping with you that night.

6) Always be prepared when rehousing any of your T's. Have something ready by your side to catch an escapee. Do it in an area that is clear of things it could hide under.


These are things that pop into my head-I'm sure the others will add on to the ones I've missed.

 

[billy28]

Billy28,
Here are some things that will help you not get bitten while you are growing up bigger and stronger than a 45 yr old Vietnamese man...

1) Do not hand feed your T's! I know it's cool and all that but it REALLY increases your chances of being bitten.

2) Do not hold your T's- when you mentioned you can handle them, I sincerely hope you did not mean you were letting them crawl on your hands. Holding a T is not a testament to your skill, only your willingness to risk a bite.

3) Do not stick your hands into a T's cage- always use a long pair of tweezers/forceps/chopsticks etc.

4) Always know where your T is before you open the enclosure. Key word here is KNOW and not guess or assume. Not always possible but do make every effort to see them before you open the enclosure.

5) Do not keep your T's in your bedroom if you can - should you make the mistake of not closing one of your T enclosures properly, at least you won't have an escapee sleeping with you that night.

6) Always be prepared when rehousing any of your T's. Have something ready by your side to catch an escapee. Do it in an area that is clear of things it could hide under.


These are things that pop into my head-I'm sure the others will add on to the ones I've missed.

I only handle my new worlds and my lividum. You guys have pretty much hammered it into my skull that hand feeding is bad so maybe i will stop, who knows. oh yah...i will never handle a pokie

 

[Arachnobrian]

I know that. i hand feed all of my t's and it will take a pokie bite to stop me. I promise everyone on this forum I will never be bitten by any pokie

Keep hand feeding and you may have to break that promise.


A slightly different direction,

I assume billy28 resides with his parents, are they aware of the potent spiders in the next room?

And yes billy28, when you eventually get bit under the age of 18, several negative things will affect the hobby we all enjoy.

-A hospital trip will cause an investigation, especially if the parents are unaware of the potent spiders.
-Investigation may expose and fine the seller. (Most have age restictions for these species)
-Some politician may pass a by-law restricting species available.

You know you shouldn't be keeping these, you shouldn't even be allowed to buy them. Getting bit at your age could change and affect the hobby.


Note: Sharing the hobby with a parent or sibling of age, could be the exception. But I am guessing that is not the case here.

 

[Thompson08]

I own 3 poecilotherias and I'm 13 yrs old.. yes that is true that if people under 18 get bitten that our hobby will be affected as well. I think people @ my age are fine, we just need to take caution when having these types of sp.

 

[Arachnobrian]

I certainly think some 13 year olds are capable of the responsibility of a pokie.

However, if something goes wrong several things will happen without your consent. Because you are under 18, you are still considered a minor.