Robc bitten by a P.regalis.
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cagey
Arachnopeon
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I have read the Billy Tangent with great interest.
We got our first T earlier this year when my son was 2.5 years and my daughter was 10 months old. Both kids are going to not even remember a time when we did NOT have an invertebrate in our house. I suspect that both will be very comfortable and responsible with Ts when they are 13.
That said, I still do not a see a future where we will own pokies *shudder*
We got our first T earlier this year when my son was 2.5 years and my daughter was 10 months old. Both kids are going to not even remember a time when we did NOT have an invertebrate in our house. I suspect that both will be very comfortable and responsible with Ts when they are 13.
That said, I still do not a see a future where we will own pokies *shudder*
i wouldn't be so sureI have read the Billy Tangent with great interest.
We got our first T earlier this year when my son was 2.5 years and my daughter was 10 months old. Both kids are going to not even remember a time when we did NOT have an invertebrate in our house. I suspect that both will be very comfortable and responsible with Ts when they are 13.
That said, I still do not a see a future where we will own pokies *shudder
:razz: :razz:
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So far Billy & the other 13-year-old have shown a pretty exemplary ability to carry on a forum discussion--esp. a relatively "sensitive" one--with more common sense and less flaming, etc., than many "adults;" not to mention their grammar, etc., exceeds common standards for the web...
Hope that didn't sound condescending, kids--my own kids were pretty adult-sounding when your age, too, and I well remember how we all were disappointed by those with low expectations of them...
Billy's even, sensibly, mentioned listening to what's been said and considering changing his habits because of it. How mature can you get?
I think the learning here is going both ways.
--Diane
Hope that didn't sound condescending, kids--my own kids were pretty adult-sounding when your age, too, and I well remember how we all were disappointed by those with low expectations of them...
Billy's even, sensibly, mentioned listening to what's been said and considering changing his habits because of it. How mature can you get?
I think the learning here is going both ways.
--Diane
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really now?! let's take a look at this thread:So far Billy & the other 13-year-old have shown a pretty exemplary ability to carry on a forum discussion--esp. a relatively "sensitive" one--with more common sense and less flaming, etc., than many "adults;" not to mention their grammar, etc., exceeds common standards for the web...
Hope that didn't sound condescending, kids--my own kids were pretty adult-sounding when your age, too, and I well remember how we all were disappointed by those with low expectations of them...
Billy's even, sensibly, mentioned listening to what's been said and considering changing his habits because of it. How mature can you get?
I think the learning here is going both ways.
--Diane
here we find Thompson with a clear misunderstanding of that policy:
then little billy here completely agrees with venom who has been saying 13 year old children should NOT have pokies:
in response to TNB pointing out billy's lack of responsibility in his actions:
and here we find billy's attitude towards a pokie bite:
these kids are showing just hoards of maturity!!
where is the responsibility?!
for all of you pro-"13 year olds owning pokies" people out there, think of the potential consequences. when one of these kids gets bit (because they WILL get bit eventually), it won't matter if their parents are enthusiasts or not. in the event of a dangerous reaction to a T bite from a minor who is structurally smaller than any adult who has survived a pokie bite, the story will likely find its way into the world of mass media. they love reporting stories like that! the hobby gets enough of a bad rep as it is for dealing with spiders without compounding the situation by a child's negative reaction to T venom. that's just what we need. and how likely is this kid to get bit?
furthermore, a child's brain is not fully functioning. there is no way that a 13 year old is capable of the reasonable, responsible, and complex cognitive thought that a 16, 18, or 21 year old may, respective to legal driving, smoking, and drinking ages. it is psychologically and physiologically impossible! they are only now beginning to think for themselves critically. often times a pre-teen's rational thought goes out the window in light of risk taking behaviors and excitement. puberty and testosterone tend to be the dominate force in many young boys' decisions. sure there are a few that rise above the rest, but does this sound like the voice of a responsible 13 year old?
c'est ma, so this statement convinces you that he has had a change of heart:
really? EVERYONE was right? how is that so when people had conflicting opinions? there is a gross misunderstanding of what all is going on here by these kids. maybe i'm a pessimist, but do you really believe that a bunch of faceless forum handles convinced this 13 yo (not capable of complex cognitive reasoning as we discussed earlier) to behave more responsibly?! when his friends come over, i can see it now, "hey guys, check this out!"you guys are all right in one way or another. After today I will probably use 10" tweezers or something
when i was 18, i thought that 21 was a ridiculous age to legalize drinking. if i'm old enough to vote, why shouldn't i be able to drink? it wasn't until i reached 21 that i realized the value in waiting. today, i am able to better appreciate and responsibly consume alcohol. at the age of 18, i was fresh out of high school. alcohol was exciting and risky. there was a danger element that attracted me to it. now, with a few more years for my mind to grow and mature, i am able to handle life a little more responsibly. i can drink one beer at dinner and be completely content.
with the logic i have been reading by the pro-13yo crowd, we may as well let them drive, smoke, and drink... as long as they do it responsibly! let us not be so foolish!
billy and thompson, i understand the desire to want these dangerous OW species because they are cool and dangerous. i'm 23, and that's the reason i got my first pokie this week!
but you have to think of the hobby. it's easy to be selfish at such a young age, but you can't predict the future. you don't know if you will get bit by a pokie and what the bite's reaction will be. if you have a bad reaction, you will be hurting this hobby for everyone else that loves collecting Ts too!
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Random questiopn for Rob....what to you think would have happened if you were bitten in the chest? Kind of scary that that severe of a reaction was from an envenomation to a distal extremity. Sounds a bit like the symptoms I got from an arizonensis bite to the hand.
I agreed with all u said but i gotta say there are exeptions. Sometimes, not perfect exeptions. As stated before some 14 y.o. kids can drive a car better than many adults.Other thing i gotta say is, drinking alcohol in Portugal is allowed at 16 ( really wierd as in the US is at 21 ). I have to dissagree with MY LAW < BUT i have been out on the nights since i was 14. The first time i got drunk was at 16. Why? Well, i drank a bit more for some reason. I've never got drunk enough to not know what i'm doin. I never puked, i never(till yesterday) got into any troubles. Why? I dont mean i'm cocky but i am reasonably(writing??) responsible.
Last night i got my FIRST trouble u wanna know why and how? It's raining, i have a 30min walk to the place i wanted to go, before arriving at where i wanted to be, i am passing by with 2 friends of many and i hear " IT WAS THEM IT WAS THEM HEY HEY HEY" I turn my back and i see 2 guys running towards me. The first tried to punch me, i dodged.I had the opurtunity to give him the punch of his life.But no. I got away 1feet or smthin he got back to me and i simply gave him a push it wasnt even a big push and he slipped to the ground, i try to get away before anything could happen, the other one starts coming on my way, i dodged once again.Some guy pulls me out and i explain what was happening was a misunderstanding.
The last guy that was running towards me starts coming again full of energy. i have some girl(wich i dont know who) trying to get him out of me.I got one almost non-felt punch on my cheeck. I go away. Some time l8r they did the same to another person. that person had some friends with him and guess what... the guy got beated up. ok... now... Why i didn't punch back? The guys who came to me are the type of "call all my friends first" and then get to fight. Friends who are a pseudo-"gang"( i meant bunch of ppl that always fight as cowards like 8 on 1<happened. and they simply take like 1 dollar from kids) Why i ran? i didnt want to get more troubles.
All this to say: WHY DID IT HAPPEN ? Becauz a dumb *ssKID under the laws legit age to drink, got drunk and wanted to fight with everyone he could see.
Each individual is what it is. I think we can't just judge by age, becauz that 13y.o. kid has kept Ts for 5 years, i dont see why he could not have a pokie. I think he didnt start right off with a pokie... That would be irresponsible.
//Tiago
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When an adult buys a pokie, they assume all responsibility for what this spider does.
When a minor buys a pokie, the responsibility becomes the parents or guardian.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
When a minor buys a pokie, the responsibility becomes the parents or guardian.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
yes, u are right. But his parents are aware of what he has, he said.. I dont know but probably her parents are into the hobby too... maybe? If he is 13 and he has Ts for 5 years.... I dont know but... We are all right in our one or other way. Since there is no law for that we can't do anything and this discussion will not end anywhere.
//Tiago
//Tiago
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Sorry but saying you WON'T get bitten IS being overconfident. And saying you are not isn't going to change that.
That is the experience i talked about. If that happened you should have stopped.
We are not talking about correct animal caring here, we are talking about danger to the hobby and to the kid.
Why the heck you said i was sleepy? I was wide awake, trust me. :? Oh, now i get it. Damn you moodRadamanthy, For a sleepy guy, you did that very well. Though I must disagree with one thing and that is experience is not necessarily a good indicator of responsibility either. One can be very experienced and still be irresponsible, no? Don't ask me what is a good indicator- I haven't thought about it much and I'm not in a thinking mood! I'm just bored and feeling chatty!
Billy28, I don't think you will find many here who will doubt your skill/dedication/ability to care for T's. But as it has been stated, you are not physically as strong as an adult- no point denying that (unless you weigh about 140 pounds in which case you need to go on a diet!) Would it be advisable to expose a non-adult to the risk of a pokie bite? I'm sure the answer is no. Is there a chance you will be bitten by a pokie in your care? The answer to that is yes (no matter how small a chance you might think it is) but since we can't tell you what you can or cannot do and if we did, you probably would not listen to us anyway- the best we can do is pray you don't get tagged by your pokie.
And an experienced person may be irresponsible toward other things, but not so much with what she has experienced. If she knows it, if she knows the danger she SHOULD be responsible. And i have to agree with you, people CAN be irresponsible. But if you know the risks and everything, and still not being responsible, you are being an idiot!
Define hand feeding please! If you don't know the meaning of the term, don't use it. Oh, and there is the experience i talk so much about again. Are your parents enthusiasts?
somethingbig, he said we were all right ON A WAY OR ANOTHER. Everyone (well, 95%) didn't used only one argument on the discussion.you guys are all right in one way or another. After today I will probably use 10" tweezers or something
And to somethingbig again(i will not quote that giant post
), i have to agree with you in parts.I think Billy28 is pretty mature. If he learned here that is better to use tweezers, i'll believe that. That is maturity, learning from other persons opinion and personal experiences and growing and getting better. And, if he have T's for five years (i'm trusting you in this one kid) he have some experience with eight legged pets.Your main argument (and concerning) is the consequences that a T bitten kid would have on the hobby. I tottaly agree with you, they will be bad. And i never said something different from that and condamned hand feeding since the start. My point here is: A 13 yo can be responsible and mature to own a pokie. Overconfidence like hand feeding it is stupid and irresponsible alright. But i think that if billy here learned from his mistake, we are good. And his hand feeding was just throwing crix inside with his hands, not what we know as hand feeding. Big misunderstanding there. That means, he knows that he can't put his little hand next to the mouth of hell.
Smoking, driving and drinking has nothing to do with this. Driving and drinking (at the same time or not) is not only a risk to your life, but to everyone around's life. That obviously can't be given to a kid. As for smoking, i think it should be forbidden at any age. I personaly like my lungs to rotten naturaly.
To end my participation in this: Billy (specially Billy) and all 13, 14, 15, 16, all the way to 115yo there, learn something here. You have readen all the threads, try not getting them as an offense, learning from them and not taking any offense. That is maturity too. Arguing is childish, discussing is adult
.Thank you. lol
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Don't know and wouldn't want to find out!!! LOL
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You really need to stop talking about all 13 yr olds in general, just because most TEENAGERS are dumb, they usually make bad dissisions. Why don't you think billy or me won't behave responsibly while having these types of sp??Now you do know that the pokies we have now are not going anywhere, why can't you just accept the fact that we will do our best to not get bit by this genus/sp. Now just as Ottawaherp said, "My P. ornata at 4" would take my finger if it was given the chance. It will never get the chance.", either will my ornata.these kids are showing just hoards of maturity!!
where is the responsibility?!
for all of you pro-"13 year olds owning pokies" people out there, think of the potential consequences. when one of these kids gets bit (because they WILL get bit eventually), it won't matter if their parents are enthusiasts or not. in the event of a dangerous reaction to a T bite from a minor who is structurally smaller than any adult who has survived a pokie bite, the story will likely find its way into the world of mass media. they love reporting stories like that! the hobby gets enough of a bad rep as it is for dealing with spiders without compounding the situation by a child's negative reaction to T venom. that's just what we need. and how likely is this kid to get bit?
really? EVERYONE was right? how is that so when people had conflicting opinions? there is a gross misunderstanding of what all is going on here by these kids. maybe i'm a pessimist, but do you really believe that a bunch of faceless forum handles convinced this 13 yo (not capable of complex cognitive reasoning as we discussed earlier) to behave more responsibly?! when his friends come over, i can see it now, "hey guys, check this out!"
with the logic i have been reading by the pro-13yo crowd, we may as well let them drive, smoke, and drink... as long as they do it responsibly! let us not be so foolish!
billy and thompson, i understand the desire to want these dangerous OW species because they are cool and dangerous. i'm 23, and that's the reason i got my first pokie this week!
but you have to think of the hobby. it's easy to be selfish at such a young age, but you can't predict the future. you don't know if you will get bit by a pokie and what the bite's reaction will be. if you have a bad reaction, you will be hurting this hobby for everyone else that loves collecting Ts too!
I would like for you to stop calling us childs. And how do you suppose that we will get bit. I know some people that have been in the hobby for years and hasn't gotten bitten once, now I know your reply will be because I am 13 and I will make a silly mistake and get bitten, but I understand and respect the potent venom of my pokies, h. macs etc..and I won't handle them, hand feed them, and I hardly ever even open the cages. Only when feeding do I open the cages, and I always check to look exactly where the spider is. For rehousing, I have this very long wire that I use to move them into the deli cup so I can take them out of the cage. I don't even get close to them at all.
One last question. How do you know my responsibility on caring for these t's???
and also you said, "but you have to think of the hobby. it's easy to be selfish at such a young age, but you can't predict the future. " and earlier in the thread you posted, "for all of you pro-"13 year olds owning pokies" people out there, think of the potential consequences. when one of these kids gets bit (because they WILL get bit eventually", I'm left a little confused.
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praise:worship: most teens are afraid of arachnids regardless of ANYTHING. after these two days I will probably be more careful. i will use wire or forceps. but now i want two hear how robc is diong
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Just on a side note...
Hey RobC, ya got any pictures of your T room???
I'd like to check out your setup.
Thanks alot in advance!
Hey RobC, ya got any pictures of your T room???
I'd like to check out your setup.
Thanks alot in advance!
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i agree with you that there are indeed exceptions. i even pointed this out in the middle of my long post.
and i am not saying that our laws are perfect by any means, but they do exist. if a 16 yo is drinking and driving then kills someone, the parents are responsible. the store where the alcohol was purchased could even potentially be held responsible. though not likely, in our jacked up society it wouldn't surprise me to see the auto manufacturer held responsible! it then gets into the media. laws become stricter. there are more regulations. no good comes from it!
in your little scuffle, things like that could be reduced if drinking was not allowed at that young of an age. the brain has not finished its growing, and you are not physically capable of completely cognitive reasoning. statistics show that the age of gang membership decreases with age. maybe this is due to them not living very long, but a more likely answer is that these people mature and grow up! they are able to reason and see foolishness in their ways.
i'm just saying that psychologically and physiologically, these kids are not able to reason fully. they will likely have other motivations. yes, there are exceptions, but who decides who is an exception? you have to make rules for the majority, not for the exceptions!
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so billy goes from the overzealous:somethingbig, he said we were all right ON A WAY OR ANOTHER. Everyone (well, 95%) didn't used only one argument on the discussion.
And to somethingbig again(i will not quote that giant post
Your main argument (and concerning) is the consequences that a T bitten kid would have on the hobby. I tottaly agree with you, they will be bad. And i never said something different from that and condamned hand feeding since the start. My point here is: A 13 yo can be responsible and mature to own a pokie. Overconfidence like hand feeding it is stupid and irresponsible alright. But i think that if billy here learned from his mistake, we are good. And his hand feeding was just throwing crix inside with his hands, not what we know as hand feeding. Big misunderstanding there. That means, he knows that he can't put his little hand next to the mouth of hell.
Smoking, driving and drinking has nothing to do with this. Driving and drinking (at the same time or not) is not only a risk to your life, but to everyone around's life. That obviously can't be given to a kid. As for smoking, i think it should be forbidden at any age. I personaly like my lungs to rotten naturaly.
To end my participation in this: Billy (specially Billy) and all 13, 14, 15, 16, all the way to 115yo there, learn something here. You have readen all the threads, try not getting them as an offense, learning from them and not taking any offense. That is maturity too. Arguing is childish, discussing is adult
Thank you. lol
to this only two pages later:
really? a bunch of faceless forum members suddenly enlightened young billy? don't be so naive. rob is an experienced enthusiast with many years under his belt (i'm assuming more than 5 but it wouldn't surprise me if it's been more than 13), and even HE got bit by his regalis. all the experience in the world does not make you invincible. mistakes are still made at any level.you guys are all right in one way or another. After today I will probably use 10" tweezers or something
what worries me most is that one of these kids will accidentally get bit, have a negative reaction to the venom, and make the rest of us (known to be physically capable and legally responsible of taking a pokie bite) suffer stricter laws and restrictions placed on our hobby. we don't need that.
and driving, smoking, and drinking have everything to do with this. these are all things that require a certain level of personal and social maturity to utilize responsibly. caring for Ts, especially hotter Ts, can be included in this same boat. if billy or thompson does get bit, my life IS at stake. my hobby could be lost in legislation forever due to an honest mistake.
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I am willing to bet money that Robc has far less experience than you think. (no offense to robc)
The key to not getting bit is #1 paying attention to what you are doing and the animal, and #2 knowing the T you are dealing with and what they can do. I have been around Ts 17 years and never been bit. I doubt I ever will get bit because I do everything in my power to not get bit. Does that make me invincible? Heck no. But I have a good streak going. (I might be jinxing myself just by posting this!)
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you're right, most teenagers ARE dumb, and guess what..? you're younger than them! i already explained why you and billy aren't physically capable of ALWAYS behaving responsibly. no one is, and the younger you are, the more your motivations are based on other things. you'll understand what i mean when you get older.
and i know you hate to hear that. i know you hate to be called a child. but you need to understand, that IN reality, you are still a child. you might be more mature than older members of these boards, but that does not make you perfect. you WILL make mistakes. rob did, and we all know that he has a lot of experience. do you think rob is irresponsible?
i have no idea how you care for your Ts. i never mentioned that.
i don't understand the confusion. is it because i said you can't predict the future, then stated that you WILL get bit? i'm trying to bring you down to earth. you ARE NOT superman!! you can't know that you will never get bit! when i said you will get bit, it is not necessarily an absolute clause. i was only building an affirmative case for the likelihood of an accidental envenomization due to the very real possibility that you will indeed get bit.