Robc bitten by a P.regalis.

[DrAce]

So bascially not very many studies have been done on humans and you are saying every one is going ot have the exact same reaction? I dont think so sorry. I was trying to say that some may be affected more by a bite than others.

Oh, I'm sorry. Did I actually say that everyone will have the same reaction.

Upon re-reading, it seems you're actually putting words in my mouth.

I said, we know alot about tarantula venom. References have been listed and referred to above which indicate that we know that there are very few cases where a SUSPECTED case of allergic reaction occured - although in none of these cases was it confirmed.

I agree, some will be affected differently by a bite than others. There's a BIG leap from that to 'there's an allergic response'.

 

[DrAce]

Would this cause the blisters on his fingers too?

No, that's what I can't easily explain. But then, allergy doesn't cover that either... at least not acutely I think.

I think there may have been some other aspect to the venom - maybe a necrotic agent?...

 

[Arachnosold1er]

Wow, this thread is gettin good!!

 

[wsimms]

No, that's what I can't easily explain. But then, allergy doesn't cover that either... at least not acutely I think.

I think there may have been some other aspect to the venom - maybe a necrotic agent?...

While the blisters could be from capillary leakage secondary to vasodilation, my guess is, as someone has already pointed out, T venom (as opposed to Apis venom) has a digestive component, so the blisters are probably due a the "meat tenderizer" effect.

As far as effects of spider venom in humans...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17877450?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=2&log$=relatedreviews&logdbfrom=pubmed

Hope the link works.

 

[robc]

Did you take any type of pain medication? If so what, how many and what were the effects? Also did you try anything else such as soaking your hand in hot water as some have done to relieve pain in other bites/stings? Just curious.

I took no pain meds, I didn't stay at the Er....I left.....rob

 

[robc]

LOL, at the beginning of this thread I posted pics of my Regalis that I got out and held for some pics before he molts. I got my Ornata out and decided that it is one T I wont be holding. It wasn't defensive per se, just SUPER FAST and skittish as a squirrel on crack. Both are at the 4" mark, nice to know the little ones can pack a heavy punch Oh and the gloves I wore were because I had just handled my B. smithi's and I was not up for being itchy.

My Ornata is near the 10" mark....I wouldn't even want to think of the bite that girl could give you!!!!

 

[Travis K]

My Ornata is near the 10" mark....I wouldn't even want to think of the bite that girl could give you!!!!

Pretty sure mine is a boy, so It probably wont get that big. They are really pretty pokies though. If I could just get it to sit still I would be more than happy to handle it. It is just SOOOOOO freaken skittish.

 

[robc]

Pretty sure mine is a boy, so It probably wont get that big. They are really pretty pokies though. If I could just get it to sit still I would be more than happy to handle it. It is just SOOOOOO freaken skittish.

M is the same way, very nasty bite, Oh...I got the roaches and will post your review shortly!!!

 

[betuana]

Love the conversation with the nurse! Its so funny.

I can understand why she might be asking "are you sure?" about the tarantula bite. I know some people who would be ready to call any 'large' spider a tarantula - if its over 1 inch it MUST be a tarantula!! And for the uninitiated, spiders always look at least 2-3 times as big as they are. We actually have a fairly large (nearly 2 inch legspan) spider living on the outside of a window by the vet tech room in a thick tube web. I'm shocked she's still alive, last time I saw her her web was covered in snow, and while I was sitting there she turned around in her web and settled in a new position. I'm guessing she has some insulation from the webbing, and heat via the window. I'd go out and catch her to bring her home if I could reach that window, but she does seem to be doing fine on her own!

But I'm sure several of my classmates (vet tech, so animal people) would probably refer to any spider her size as a tarantula. So they may be asking because they've had people come in with wolf spider bites, etc and call the wolf spider a T. Treatment may be very different because of different venoms and different reactions. Widows/recluse have venom that can cause more problems for people, but if it was a big spider, all alot of people know is that it was a big spider...

But still, very amusing story! I've never really understood how they can make people just sit in emergency rooms for hours like that though. Glad you are feeling better anyways, even if you didn't get any meds from them!

 

[DDaake]

I've gotta rehouse 2-3" Ornatas soon. Not looking forward to it at all. But It'll be the last rehousing for them. Glad to see you survived rob. D

 

[jb7741]

My Ornata is near the 10" mark....I wouldn't even want to think of the bite that girl could give you!!!!

Not a problem, her fangs will simply go completely through your hand and inject her venom harmlessly into the air.

 

[bamato]

My Ornata is near the 10" mark....I wouldn't even want to think of the bite that girl could give you!!!!

I would imagine it would feel like liquid hot nails being driven into your hand.... Thats just my best guess though considering I've never been bitten myself (knocks on wood)

 

[ReMoVeR]

Not a problem, her fangs will simply go completely through your hand and inject her venom harmlessly into the air.

I wouldnt say air? I would say defenitly:VEINS, VENOM GOIN INTO UR HEART THEN BRAIN ! (scary uh? 10" T ? that must be a real pain when penetrating ;O)

//Tiago

 

[Sooner]

Actually a lot. Not in humans, mind, but spider venom is quite well studied. By and large, excluding infections and the like, tarantula venom acts by blocking ion channels.

Actually, not at all. The response from bee venom and shellfish is an allergic one - there is an immune system response to the venom which is treated as an antigen. In tarantula venom, the active molecules are short peptides - about 1 kDa in size. These are generally far too small to really trigger an immune response unless they have somehow gotten associated with a larger antigen.

Ph.D. in Physical Biochemistry enough for you?

My best guess is that pretty much all his symptoms are a direct response of the venom acting on the nervous system - which is what is often the first reaction to ion channel blockers.
Cramping, sweating, pain and tachycardia are all indicative of an acute hyperstimulation of the nervous system.

If he was being followed more rigorously, I'm guessing there would have been changes in urine concentration.

Everything makes sense now! Although I heard from people that tarantula venom peptides are too small to elicit an allergic response, I didn't see any papers or research that indicates that.

I'm still learning so bear with me. So a 1 kDa peptide should be about 9 aa in length (average aa = 110 daltons). IgE does not bind well with peptides about with 8 aa residues, so because of the physical nature of t venom, it'll be hard to elicit an allergic response.

 

[robc]

i think he got bit sometime ago by a 2" OBT i think he got the wsame symptoms?

//Tiago

Close to the same symptoms, but this was easily 5X more painful!!!

 

[J.huff23]

Lol. How can you not be sure about geting bitten by a T? That nurse cracks me up. "I got bitten by a tarantula"........"Are you sure?".... my reaction would have been "Oh, no, your right. I actually cant tell if the 4 inch tarantula dug its sharp pointy fangs into my flesh. Now can you shut your mouth and get me some treatment?"

 

[UrbanJungles]

Lol. How can you not be sure about geting bitten by a T? That nurse cracks me up. "I got bitten by a tarantula"........"Are you sure?".... my reaction would have been "Oh, no, your right. I actually cant tell if the 4 inch tarantula dug its sharp pointy fangs into my flesh. Now can you shut your mouth and get me some treatment?"

Because as stated earlier in the thread...many people are quick to call anything over 1" a tarantula. As a biologist I can't tell you how many times I've had the pleasure of receiving a jar holding a "baby tarantula" brought in by a hysterical person who doesn't realize wolf spiders and even (non spiders)harvestmen can easily attain these sizes. When the nurse asked "are you sure" she may have been trying to deduce if the spider was really a T.

Although I will admit, once someone dropped off a rosy found in her apartment...apprently a lost pet belonging to another tenant.

 

[Kirk]

I feel the need to point out that there is not a single documented instance of hypersensitivity to tarantula venom in the medical literature. In fact, the T venom molecules are probably too small to elicit a hypersensitivity response.

The size of a molecule is not a causal factor in hypersensitivity. Proteins are rather sizeable macromolecules.

 

[DrAce]

Everything makes sense now! Although I heard from people that tarantula venom peptides are too small to elicit an allergic response, I didn't see any papers or research that indicates that.

I'm still learning so bear with me. So a 1 kDa peptide should be about 9 aa in length (average aa = 110 daltons). IgE does not bind well with peptides about with 8 aa residues, so because of the physical nature of t venom, it'll be hard to elicit an allergic response.

Kinda. You CAN get a response if the immune system really gets to work on it, but it's quite unlikely.

The size of a molecule is not a causal factor in hypersensitivity. Proteins are rather sizeable macromolecules.

Infact, I'm working with a neat antibody in the lab which recognises methylated base pairs in DNA. So it will bind ONLY to methyl-cytosine, not normal cytosine.

I don't off-hand know the Mr for cytosine, but I'm betting it's around the 100 Da mark, and that methyl group is pretty small too.

 

[the nature boy]

Close to the same symptoms, but this was easily 5X more painful!!!

Oh...really? When it comes to pain Rob's a little girl. A mosquito could bite him and he'd whine for weeks.

--the nature boy