Only legal Isopods in United States according to USDA

[isopodgeek]

I did not see cubaris duckies on there and all my local shops have them

Cubaris do in fact need a containment facility.

 

[Spyro]

Cubaris do infancy need a containment facility.

Can you explain more? I don’t understand

 

[isopodgeek]

Can you explain more? I don’t understand

I meant to say that Cubaris Species do require a containment facility. Many do not know this but this is really important. I do not plan to set one up myself and thus, will not be keeping Cubaris.

A containment facility is basically a room with special doors and sealed vents to prevent escape.

You can read more about containment facilities here:

Containment Facility Guidelines

I filled out a 526 PPQ Permit this past Wednesday. I put in all of the Isopods and Millipedes I wish to keep, breed and sell. Yesterday, I found out that I need a Containment Facility set up for some of the exotic isopods and millipedes on my permit. I know that it could be up to 6 months down...

arachnoboards.com

And here:

USDA APHIS | Containment Facility Inspections

www.aphis.usda.gov

I do not know how one goes about obtaining one of these facilities but I do know what species require one. Go to Mantis Manageries site and search USDA laws. If you do it on desktop. A bunch of invertebrate groups will come up. Click on one and you will see the rules.

The Mantis Menagerie

An inordinate fondness for arthropods

themantismenagerie.com

Mantis Manageries has a list of 14 Isopods exempt from containment facilities but all of which require a 526 PPQpermit for interstate transport.

Someone please correct me if I am wrong but I think that if you buy them in your state, you don’t need a containment facility. Don’t go off of this as I am not 100% sure about this part.

Everything else I am 100% certain.

 

[Spyro]

I meant to say that Cubaris Species do require a containment facility. Many do not know this but this I do not plan to set one up myself and thus, will not be keeping Cubaris.

A containment facility is basically a room with special doors and sealed vents to prevent escape.

You can read more about containment facilities here:

Containment Facility Guidelines

I filled out a 526 PPQ Permit this past Wednesday. I put in all of the Isopods and Millipedes I wish to keep, breed and sell. Yesterday, I found out that I need a Containment Facility set up for some of the exotic isopods and millipedes on my permit. I know that it could be up to 6 months down...

arachnoboards.com

And here:

USDA APHIS | Containment Facility Inspections

www.aphis.usda.gov

I do not know how one goes about obtaining one of these facilities but I do know what species require one. Go to Mantis Manageries site and search USDA laws. If you do it on desktop. A bunch of invertebrate groups will come up. Click on one and you will see the rules.

The Mantis Menagerie

An inordinate fondness for arthropods

themantismenagerie.com

Mantis Manageries has a list of 14 Isopods exempt from containment facilities but all of which require a 526 PPQpermit for interstate transport.

Someone please correct me if I am wrong but I think that if you buy them in your state, you don’t need a containment facility. Don’t go off of this as I am not 100% sure about this part.

Everything else I am 100% certain.

Oh! Yeah, I understand the containment facility. I was just a bit confused by your post. Idk, its early.

 

[goliathusdavid]

I meant to say that Cubaris Species do require a containment facility. Many do not know this but this I do not plan to set one up myself and thus, will not be keeping Cubaris.

Someone please correct me if I am wrong but I think that if you buy them in your state, you don’t need a containment facility. Don’t go off of this as I am not 100% sure about this part.

I am not sure about this. I know most exotic millipedes require a PPQ 526 just for possession and would not be surprised if this applied to exotic isopods as well. And I think regardless of source, they would still require a facility.

 

[goliathusdavid]

But that's the thing... The USDA and APHIS generally don't seem to care about the displacement of native isopod species... I'm not saying that these new hobby species don't pose a threat to native isopods, of course they do, and many of the new species in culture come from climates similar to the US and thus could establish themselves here just like many other species have. However, that concern is not one I've been led to believe the regulatory branches of our government prioritize, at least, not when it comes to isopods, where most people probably haven't even seen our native species, (most of which are pretty small and unassuming).

That's a concern that falls upon hobbyists to consider, and one we all may have to reckon with one day, but having or not having permits isn't going to affect that much IMO... You're either an irresponsible A-hole who will release non-native species into the wild, or not. I could see people with and without permits releasing non-native species into the wild intentionally or unintentionally under certain circumstances, and so I see no reason for everyone to get permits for that particular set of concerns. And since our native isopods are SO obscure and their role in the ecosystem may even be being fulfilled as normal by the invasives, I don't see our government caring about them until it's far, far too late... It honestly already may be for some of them.

I would agree that the protection of native species is definitely not the USDA's first priority, but I would argue it is one of them. I also agree that the responsibility of not releasing organisms falls on hobbyists. But I would still advocate for the acquisition of permits. Not only is it ethically fraught to keep exotics without permits, but this system also exists for multiples reasons as previously stated. And it protects not only only native species and agriculture, but also threatened exotic species by limiting their legal trade. Regulation put out by USDA\APHIS and also notably CITES, is not government evil. Rather it is necessary for the protection of wildlife, both native and non-native. There is intention behind these laws, and it is to the benefit of all of us to obey them.
There are definitely areas where the USDA should deregulate. But there are also areas where frankly, regulation and enforcement should be far more stringent and I would like to see more of it. It is not a perfect system, by any means. But it is nevertheless in the best interests of the hobby for all of us to work within these rules.

 

[isopodgeek]

These are the rules that all hobbyist need to follow wether you like them or not. Not following these rules is illegal. If the USDA APHIS realizes that many are not following the rules, they will change them, and the future of this hobby will be at stake. Things are complicated as it is with insect laws and more laws will further complicate things.

Yes, we all wish that everything could be deregulated but the reality is this will never happen. These laws are made in the best interest of the animals. I think we sometimes forget that without any laws, species populations will decline.

This was the case with the African Gaint Millipede. They were imported, and imported, and imported until it became illegal to have the imported. This is a very sad incident in that the well being the animals populations were forgotten.

I really hope this will not happen with isopods but then again, Isopods breed like rats.

We all need to remember that these laws are here to stay and that the animals well being as a species is more important than anything.

 

[ThemantismanofPA]

Based on my study of isopod law in the past few months, I think this information is partially incorrect. The fourteen species listed are the species that require permits but DO NOT require containment facilities. Other species of exotic isopod (including the high demand Cubaris) can still legally be kept and sold in the United States but require both PPQ 525's for possession and interstate travel AND stipulate a containment facility. Additionally all NATIVE species do not require permits.
Please see below: (From the leading hobbyist on USDA regulation)

Malacostraca

The main order in this class of interest to hobbyists is Isopoda. Therefore, this page will focus on isopods. Species Native to the Continental US Species that are indigenous to the Continental US …

themantismenagerie.com

Any exotic isopods will also require and FWS permit to be imported into the US if they are coming from abroad.

After going to see a law firm regarding the legality of me selling inverts across state lines, I can say with certainty that many plant eating inverts are regulated by the USDA. In addition, inverts that nest in plants/ use plants for really anything seem to be frowned upon in terms of shipping without a permit. Also, state laws vary, so you need to watch for them too. As far as I can tell, those 14 seem ok to ship with proper permits and aperwork, but one other big rule from the USDA is that you cant ship them with plant/ organic material in the container.

The USDA as a whole is a beneficial institution that really has good intentions. Its just that some of their reasoning is a bit idiotic, such as allowing termite workers to be shipped and not queens (termite worker can actually become queens/ mates after a long enough time). In general, its just best to be super safe and have that permit.

 

[Spyro]

After going to see a law firm regarding the legality of me selling inverts across state lines, I can say with certainty that many plant eating inverts are regulated by the USDA. In addition, inverts that nest in plants/ use plants for really anything seem to be frowned upon in terms of shipping without a permit. Also, state laws vary, so you need to watch for them too. As far as I can tell, those 14 seem ok to ship with proper permits and aperwork, but one other big rule from the USDA is that you cant ship them with plant/ organic material in the container.

The USDA as a whole is a beneficial institution that really has good intentions. Its just that some of their reasoning is a bit idiotic, such as allowing termite workers to be shipped and not queens (termite worker can actually become queens/ mates after a long enough time). In general, its just best to be super safe and have that permit.

This is correct. As far as shipping them without plant material. After applying for my permits, I was only able to get the permits signed and issued to me by agreeing to ship the isopods using paper towels or sphagnum moss. No soil is allowed not even soil from their rearing bins. Hope this helps others. This morning I was issued another 7 PPQ permits! Yay!

 

[isopodgeek]

This is correct. As far as shipping them without plant material. After applying for my permits, I was only able to get the permits signed and issued to me by agreeing to ship the isopods using paper towels or sphagnum moss. No soil is allowed not even soil from their rearing bins. Hope this helps others. This morning I was issued another 7 PPQ permits! Yay!

I didn’t know this! Haven’t ship any isopods yet and my permit didn’t get signed yet. Thanks for the helpful information.

 

[Hisserdude]

I would agree that the protection of native species is definitely not the USDA's first priority, but I would argue it is one of them. I also agree that the responsibility of not releasing organisms falls on hobbyists. But I would still advocate for the acquisition of permits. Not only is it ethically fraught to keep exotics without permits, but this system also exists for multiples reasons as previously stated. And it protects not only only native species and agriculture, but also threatened exotic species by limiting their legal trade. Regulation put out by USDA\APHIS and also notably CITES, is not government evil. Rather it is necessary for the protection of wildlife, both native and non-native. There is intention behind these laws, and it is to the benefit of all of us to obey them.
There are definitely areas where the USDA should deregulate. But there are also areas where frankly, regulation and enforcement should be far more stringent and I would like to see more of it. It is not a perfect system, by any means. But it is nevertheless in the best interests of the hobby for all of us to work within these rules.

But, the VAST majority of the isopod breeders and roach breeders for example do NOT have these permits... And nothing's happening. All invasive isopods thus far in the US were brought in with plants and such, so far there's not been any introduced into the wild via the pet trade. Not saying it won't happen, but it'd be a fluke if it did, not the norm. Because of that, the USDA doesn't CARE about enforcing these laws, so I still see no real reason for everyone to get permitted...

Bugsincyberspace, one of the largest bug vendors in the country, does not have permits for any of his invertebrates, despite living in Oregon, where the list of "legal" to keep inverts is supposedly rather small... Yet when the USDA periodically checks in on him (to make sure he's not importing mantids oddly enough, that's what they're mainly concerned about), they're not taking issue with his isopod collection, nor any of his inverts, nor that fact that he's SELLING and shipping them all across the US with no permits.

They just don't care, and for that reason I don't see why we should, and all get permits for invertebrate groups that are hardly being regulated, and that I just don't see being feasibly regulated in the future with the amount of hobbyists currently breeding them (not just KEEPING WC individuals like we saw with AGBs, but breeding and dispersing them in the hobby to many other people without further importation of said species, just new ones).

Frankly low concern groups like roaches for example are quite possibly going to completely deregulated in the future (except for in FL, where I really do think they should continue to be banned), isopods may or may not be completely deregulated in the future, due to the sheer amount of effort it'd take to actually go about regulating them, and the relatively low impact they have on agriculture... We're talking about THOUSANDS of isopod keepers now with many different species each, and we've seen how the government handles dealing with regulating the more populous invertebrate hobbies... Remember the Typhochlaena seladonia fiasco? And how everyone kinda just ignored that they're illegal to keep after a while, and the government has basically turned a blind eye to the issue as everyone continues to breed, sell and show off theirs? Because they were already being bred and sold here as CB individuals, it was really too late to regulate them with how many had them. And now it'll be even harder if they ever try again.

 

[isopodgeek]

But, the VAST majority of the isopod breeders and roach breeders for example do NOT have these permits... And nothing's happening. All invasive isopods thus far in the US were brought in with plants and such, so far there's not been any introduced into the wild via the pet trade. Not saying it won't happen, but it'd be a fluke if it did, not the norm. Because of that, the USDA doesn't CARE about enforcing these laws, so I still see no real reason for everyone to get permitted...

Bugsincyberspace, one of the largest bug vendors in the country, does not have permits for any of his invertebrates, despite living in Oregon, where the list of "legal" to keep inverts is supposedly rather small... Yet when the USDA periodically checks in on him (to make sure he's not importing mantids oddly enough, that's what they're mainly concerned about), they're not taking issue with his isopod collection, nor any of his inverts, nor that fact that he's SELLING and shipping them all across the US with no permits.

They just don't care, and for that reason I don't see why we should, and all get permits for invertebrate groups that are hardly being regulated, and that I just don't see being feasibly regulated in the future with the amount of hobbyists currently breeding them (not just KEEPING WC individuals like we saw with AGBs, but breeding and dispersing them in the hobby to many other people without further importation of said species, just new ones).

Frankly low concern groups like roaches for example are quite possibly going to completely deregulated in the future (except for in FL, where I really do think they should continue to be banned), isopods may or may not be completely deregulated in the future, due to the sheer amount of effort it'd take to actually go about regulating them, and the relatively low impact they have on agriculture... We're talking about THOUSANDS of isopod keepers now with many different species each, and we've seen how the government handles dealing with regulating the more populous invertebrate hobbies... Remember the Typhochlaena seladonia fiasco? And how everyone kinda just ignored that they're illegal to keep after a while, and the government has basically turned a blind eye to the issue as everyone continues to breed, sell and show off theirs? Because they were already being bred and sold here as CB individuals, it was really too late to regulate them with how many had them. And now it'll be even harder if they ever try again.

How do you know( or why do you think) Bugs in Cyberspace doesn’t have permits. I am sure that they do. Can you possibly provide sources?

 

[Arthroverts]

How do you know( or why do you think) Bugs in Cyberspace doesn’t have permits. I am sure that they do. Can you possibly provide sources?

They don’t. No major US seller has permits.

Thanks,

Arthroverts

 

[Hisserdude]

How do you know( or why do you think) Bugs in Cyberspace doesn’t have permits. I am sure that they do. Can you possibly provide sources?

I asked him lol. And he's of the same general opinion of the permit situation as I am.

 

[isopodgeek]

They don’t. No major US seller has permits.

Thanks,

Arthroverts

That’s just terrible.

I do not want to support a business operating illegally.

When I get my permit in March, who will I be able to buy from?

What business have permits?

 

[goliathusdavid]

But, the VAST majority of the isopod breeders and roach breeders for example do NOT have these permits... And nothing's happening. All invasive isopods thus far in the US were brought in with plants and such, so far there's not been any introduced into the wild via the pet trade. Not saying it won't happen, but it'd be a fluke if it did, not the norm. Because of that, the USDA doesn't CARE about enforcing these laws, so I still see no real reason for everyone to get permitted...

Bugsincyberspace, one of the largest bug vendors in the country, does not have permits for any of his invertebrates, despite living in Oregon, where the list of "legal" to keep inverts is supposedly rather small... Yet when the USDA periodically checks in on him (to make sure he's not importing mantids oddly enough, that's what they're mainly concerned about), they're not taking issue with his isopod collection, nor any of his inverts, nor that fact that he's SELLING and shipping them all across the US with no permits.

They just don't care, and for that reason I don't see why we should, and all get permits for invertebrate groups that are hardly being regulated, and that I just don't see being feasibly regulated in the future with the amount of hobbyists currently breeding them (not just KEEPING WC individuals like we saw with AGBs, but breeding and dispersing them in the hobby to many other people without further importation of said species, just new ones).

Frankly low concern groups like roaches for example are quite possibly going to completely deregulated in the future (except for in FL, where I really do think they should continue to be banned), isopods may or may not be completely deregulated in the future, due to the sheer amount of effort it'd take to actually go about regulating them, and the relatively low impact they have on agriculture... We're talking about THOUSANDS of isopod keepers now with many different species each, and we've seen how the government handles dealing with regulating the more populous invertebrate hobbies... Remember the Typhochlaena seladonia fiasco? And how everyone kinda just ignored that they're illegal to keep after a while, and the government has basically turned a blind eye to the issue as everyone continues to breed, sell and show off theirs? Because they were already being bred and sold here as CB individuals, it was really too late to regulate them with how many had them. And now it'll be even harder if they ever try again.

Just because there is not extensive enforcement now doesn't mean there won't be in the future. Frankly, there should be in the future for many species. Can you imagine the damage Phasmids could cause in the Southern US? And though roach pest species are few and far between (only one percent of all species as I am sure you know) they do still exist. While you are correct in saying that we have not seen any isopod species introduced to the US via the pet trade, it is my strong belief that it is only a matter of time. A hobby this large, and growing, is a ticking time bomb for accidental introduction.
Your main criticism of permits seems to be that they are unnecessary given the lack of enforcement. But that is rather like advocating for running a red light when there is not a police car around. It's still dangerous, and, still illegal.

Also @Hisserdude though I may disagree with you strongly on permitting, I have to admit I am a huge fan of the blog

 

[isopodgeek]

I asked him lol. And he's of the same general opinion of the permit situation as I am.

I don’t think that is funny. That is really sad.
The rules are the rules wether you agree or disagree.

I respectfully understand your opinion but still feel every hobbyist should strive to have a permit.

I cannot believe Peter told you that!

 

[isopodgeek]

Just because there is not extensive enforcement now doesn't mean there won't be in the future. Frankly, there should be in the future for many species. Can you imagine the damage Phasmids could cause in the Southern US? And though roach pest species are few and far between (only one percent of all species as I am sure you know) they do still exist. While you are correct in saying that we have not seen any isopod species introduced to the US via the pet trade, it is my strong belief that it is only a matter of time. A hobby this large, and growing, is a ticking time bomb for accidental introduction.
Your main criticism of permits seems to be that they are unnecessary given the lack of enforcement. But that is rather like advocating for running a red light when there is not a police car around. It's still dangerous, and, still illegal.

Also @Hisserdude though I may disagree with you strongly on permitting, I have to admit I am a huge fan of the blog

I am very interested in reading your blog @Hisserdude . Can you please send the link of your blog to me?

 

[goliathusdavid]

That’s just terrible.

I do not want to support a business operating illegally.

When I get my permit in March, who will I be able to buy from?

What business have permits?

I have to admit, your options are limited. I still buy from Peter and just purchased from Orin but just will not buy anything that would require permits. In terms of businesses that have permits I know BioQuip does, (though their stock is VERY limited) and I know and trust the folks at Bugs of America. Josh's Frogs also has commercial biological supply permits.

 

[isopodgeek]

I have to admit, your options are limited. I still buy from Peter and just purchased from Orin but just will not buy anything that would require permits. In terms of businesses that have permits I know BioQuip does, (though their stock is VERY limited) and I know and trust the folks at Bugs of America. Josh's Frogs also has commercial biological supply permits.

Who is Orin?