Only legal Isopods in United States according to USDA

Hisserdude

Arachnoking
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Joined
Apr 18, 2015
Messages
2,275
Just because there is not extensive enforcement now doesn't mean there won't be in the future. Frankly, there should be in the future for many species. Can you imagine the damage Phasmids could cause in the Southern US? And though roach pest species are few and far between (only one percent of all species as I am sure you know) they do still exist. While you are correct in saying that we have not seen any isopod species introduced to the US via the pet trade, it is my strong belief that it is only a matter of time. A hobby this large, and growing, is a ticking time bomb for accidental introduction.
Your main criticism of permits seems to be that they are unnecessary given the lack of enforcement. But that is rather like advocating for running a red light when there is not a police car around. It's still dangerous, and, still illegal.

Also @Hisserdude though I may disagree with you strongly on permitting, I have to admit I am a huge fan of the blog :)
I'm all for more strict regulations of phasmids, mollusks, beetles that actually feed on living plant material, etc., but when it comes to detritivores and (most) predators, unless we're talking about FL or some other states that are highly suitable for exotic fauna, I'm against further regulation and more for deregulation or at least no change in the current regulations of said taxa.

Despite the rise in people keeping isopods, they've given the government little reason to further regulate the keeping and breeding of isopods thus far, and I just don't see that changing much, because honestly I feel like we're only going to see very few, if any new isopods introduced into the US as a result of the pet trade now, seeing as I feel like the isopod hobby kinda hit it's peak a year ago with the Cubaris Craze, now it seems to be calming down a bit, and from what I've seen people are mostly just focusing on making new morphs of the species we currently have in culture, (many of which are at a disadvantage when it comes to surviving in the wild during to their brighter coloration).

So as long as things continue on this way, I don't see further regulation happening, nor a need to get permits right now. I'm not a fortune teller, (thought my mom does dabble in that stuff 😛), so I can't say for certain that things WON'T change, maybe I'll be proven very very wrong, but the amount of funding it'd take for the USDA to to actually go around, making sure everyone in the US keeping isopods has permits and taking away isopods from people who don't... I just don't think I'll live to see the USDA get that kind of funding. 😅 The only time I see raids like that happening are if they suspect people are keeping endangered species... Which I FULLY support strict regulation of for obvious reasons.

And thank you, I'm glad you enjoy the blog! 😁 Like I said, perhaps I'll be proven very wrong one day, and you'll see me post about getting permits myself, but for now at least, I view getting permits for isopods, roaches, and other invert groups of least concern as a currently unnecessary precaution against an issue that our government isn't even concerned about right now, hasn't been concerned about for years, and may never be concerned about, period.

I don’t think that is funny. That is really sad.
The rules are the rules wether you agree or disagree.

I respectfully understand your opinion but still feel every hobbyist should strive to have a permit.

I cannot believe Peter told you that!
That's just the thing, Peter's been in the hobby longer than most of us, he has seen the both the completely unregulated era and much more regulated era of the pet bug hobby, and is being monitored by the USDA himself... So if he's not worried about permits for these species, I don't see why ANY of us should be. Everyone's free to have their own opinion, but this is mine, formed from the information I have available to me and my experience in this hobby.

I am very interested in reading your blog @Hisserdude . Can you please send the link of your blog to me?
Sure, http://invertebratedude.blogspot.com/
 

isopodgeek

Arachnosquire
Active Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2021
Messages
126
Orin Mcmonigle, one of the pioneers of the US pet invert hobby.
Thank you! Sorry that I didn’t know who that was everyone! Got into this hobby about 6 weeks ago.

In that time, I have spent a lot of money on inverts and supplies. I currently have over 16 species which include spiders, roaches, Isopods, millipedes, centipedes and Springtails.

I have learned so much about invertebrate husbandry and about all of the laws surrounding them. I can’t wait till I receive my permit in March.

My dream is to be able to sell some of my invertebrates for profit.
 

goliathusdavid

Arachnobaron
Active Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2020
Messages
376
@Hisserdude I definitely get where you're coming from (and would love to see more deregulation of certain detritivore species) but am personally extremely concerned with the US biosecurity system, and what I feel is faulty regulation regarding both invertebrate and exotic vertebrates. I've become extremely set in my philosophy of "more funding, more regulation" with regard to the USDA, in particular after doing a brief foray into the epidemiology of the wildlife trade, but it is nice to get a different perspective. I definitely learned a lot reading your posts, despite my disagreement. Thank you!
 

isopodgeek

Arachnosquire
Active Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2021
Messages
126
I'm all for more strict regulations of phasmids, mollusks, beetles that actually feed on living plant material, etc., but when it comes to detritivores and (most) predators, unless we're talking about FL or some other states that are highly suitable for exotic fauna, I'm against further regulation and more for deregulation or at least no change in the current regulations of said taxa.

Despite the rise in people keeping isopods, they've given the government little reason to further regulate the keeping and breeding of isopods thus far, and I just don't see that changing much, because honestly I feel like we're only going to see very few, if any new isopods introduced into the US as a result of the pet trade now, seeing as I feel like the isopod hobby kinda hit it's peak a year ago with the Cubaris Craze, now it seems to be calming down a bit, and from what I've seen people are mostly just focusing on making new morphs of the species we currently have in culture, (many of which are at a disadvantage when it comes to surviving in the wild during to their brighter coloration).

So as long as things continue on this way, I don't see further regulation happening, nor a need to get permits right now. I'm not a fortune teller, (thought my mom does dabble in that stuff 😛), so I can't say for certain that things WON'T change, maybe I'll be proven very very wrong, but the amount of funding it'd take for the USDA to to actually go around, making sure everyone in the US keeping isopods has permits and taking away isopods from people who don't... I just don't think I'll live to see the USDA get that kind of funding. 😅 The only time I see raids like that happening are if they suspect people are keeping endangered species... Which I FULLY support strict regulation of for obvious reasons.

And thank you, I'm glad you enjoy the blog! 😁 Like I said, perhaps I'll be proven very wrong one day, and you'll see me post about getting permits myself, but for now at least, I view getting permits for isopods, roaches, and other invert groups of least concern as a currently unnecessary precaution against an issue that our government isn't even concerned about right now, hasn't been concerned about for years, and may never be concerned about, period.



That's just the thing, Peter's been in the hobby longer than most of us, he has seen the both the completely unregulated era and much more regulated era of the pet bug hobby, and is being monitored by the USDA himself... So if he's not worried about permits for these species, I don't see why ANY of us should be. Everyone's free to have their own opinion, but this is mine, formed from the information I have available to me and my experience in this hobby.



Sure, http://invertebratedude.blogspot.com/
Your website is awesome! Really wish I could keep some of the roach species you have a breed them.

The only reason I can’t have any roaches is because my mom is terrified of them.

Was just barley lucky enough to convince her to let me get Hissing Cockroaches( which had baby the day later).

My jealousy aside, I wish you the best of luck in your invertebrate hobby!
 

Hisserdude

Arachnoking
Active Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2015
Messages
2,275
@Hisserdude I definitely get where you're coming from (and would love to see more deregulation of certain detritivore species) but am personally extremely concerned with the US biosecurity system, and what I feel is faulty regulation regarding both invertebrate and exotic vertebrates. I've become extremely set in my philosophy of "more funding, more regulation" with regard to the USDA, in particular after doing a brief foray into the epidemiology of the wildlife trade, but it is nice to get a different perspective. I definitely learned a lot reading your posts, despite my disagreement. Thank you!
Well I definitely get where you're coming from as well, and do think the US should be more concerned about how our native fauna is doing for sure, I just personally haven't seen the US invertebrate breeding hobbies contributing nearly as much damage to our ecosystems as other entities have, and think those other entities are a much higher priority than some people keeping roly-polys without the proper paperwork. 😅 I appreciate the civil conversation and disagreement, thanks for sharing your concerns and counterarguments to mine, was a nice conversation! 😁
 

Hisserdude

Arachnoking
Active Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2015
Messages
2,275
Your website is awesome! Really wish I could keep some of the roach species you have a breed them.

The only reason I can’t have any roaches is because my mom is terrified of them.

Was just barley lucky enough to convince her to let me get Hissing Cockroaches( which had baby the day later).

My jealousy aside, I wish you the best of luck in your invertebrate hobby!
Thank you, glad to hear you like it! 😁 Haha my mom was quite terrified of roaches as well, but she let me get hissing cockroaches as well and that desensitized her to them pretty quick, after a few years of only keeping adult male hissers (and a female peppered roach), she started letting me get breeding groups of a few roach species, and it snowballed pretty quick from there! 😂
 

schmiggle

Arachnoking
Active Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2013
Messages
2,103
If doing something illegal doesn't phase a person, what does?
I see you've never met Boston or New York drivers.

I personally don't see a lot of point in getting a permit for something that's not enforced. USDA doesn't have the resources to decide to go after low-priority things, and that won't change regardless of how many people are permitted. If you support more regulation of importation and containment of exotic species--and you should--elect politicians who have promised to increase the resources available to that organization.
 

RoachCoach

Arachnobaron
Active Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2019
Messages
547
Thank you! Sorry that I didn’t know who that was everyone! Got into this hobby about 6 weeks ago.

In that time, I have spent a lot of money on inverts and supplies. I currently have over 16 species which include spiders, roaches, Isopods, millipedes, centipedes and Springtails.

I have learned so much about invertebrate husbandry and about all of the laws surrounding them. I can’t wait till I receive my permit in March.

My dream is to be able to sell some of my invertebrates for profit.
RIP your bank account when you start buying McMonigle books. And no I won't sell you any of mine. They are vacuum sealed and on the shelf.
 

isopodgeek

Arachnosquire
Active Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2021
Messages
126
RIP your bank account when you start buying McMonigle books. And no I won't sell you any of mine. They are vacuum sealed and on the shelf.
Funny you mention that as I had a bunch in my Amazon Cart lol. Would love to get some of those books but they are too expensive for me. I am on a really tight budget.
 

Matts inverts

Arachnobaron
Active Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2021
Messages
576
Most local shops do not have permits or check for permits, my local shop has tons of mantises that I’m sure were imported
 

Spyro

Arachnopeon
Joined
Mar 13, 2019
Messages
12
I did not see cubaris duckies on there and all my local shops have them
That's because "duckies" isn't the scientific name. Once they can identify what species those belong to, they may get added to the list. Your local shops may not be playing by the rules.
 

isopodgeek

Arachnosquire
Active Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2021
Messages
126
That's because "duckies" isn't the scientific name. Once they can identify what species those belong to, they may get added to the list. Your local shops may not be playing by the rules.
Rubber Duckies are currently under Cubaris sp. APHIS doesn’t except sp. You have to be specific down to the species.
 

Spyro

Arachnopeon
Joined
Mar 13, 2019
Messages
12
Rubber Duckies are currently under Cubaris sp. APHIS doesn’t except sp. You have to be specific down to the species.
There is one Cubaris species listed on that list, murina. If the duckie variation is not in that species, it isn't on the list. Pretty simple. Currently, I don't think we know the species that duckies are in. I'd love to know the species if anyone knows.
 

goliathusdavid

Arachnobaron
Active Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2020
Messages
376
Rubber ducky isopods have not been identified down to the species, just go by Cubaris "Rubber Ducky" but they DO require a containment facility. They are not exempt. The only exempt Cubaris species is Cubaris murina aka little sea isopods. As for the issue of this species in pet shops, just because they are widespread doesn't mean they are legal. Trafficking is widespread among both online dealers and pet stores, with very few exceptions. And sadly, only the most egregious violations get caught, because there is so little enforcement. For pete's sake USMantis sells exotic mantids and PHASMIDS online and still hasn't been shut down. Violations are everywhere, but that doesn't make them right. Your best course of action is to buy only what you can legally possess, and if you're not sure if you can possess something, then you probably can't. Once permitted, permitted individuals can still buy from non-permitted individuals (and honestly there is little choice) but it is always important to make sure that you, as the buyer, are within the law.
 

Malum Argenteum

Arachnosquire
Active Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2020
Messages
84
For clarification, no permit is needed for simple possession of any species of isopod on the list in the first post, correct?

In post #2 above, I quoted this from USDA website:

"A PPQ 526 permit is required for the importation, interstate movement and environmental release of most insects and mites that feed upon or infest plants or plant products, including agricultural crops, trees, shrubs, native plants, etc."

This says nothing about possession. Is there a statement from USDA/APHIS that stipulates a permit for mere possession?
 

ThemantismanofPA

Arachnosquire
Joined
Oct 25, 2017
Messages
133
For clarification, no permit is needed for simple possession of any species of isopod on the list in the first post, correct?

In post #2 above, I quoted this from USDA website:

"A PPQ 526 permit is required for the importation, interstate movement and environmental release of most insects and mites that feed upon or infest plants or plant products, including agricultural crops, trees, shrubs, native plants, etc."

This says nothing about possession. Is there a statement from USDA/APHIS that stipulates a permit for mere possession?
I agree with you on the interpretation of this, it seems like no permit is required to OWN, only transport, sell, etc.
 

goliathusdavid

Arachnobaron
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Joined
Oct 27, 2020
Messages
376
I agree with you on the interpretation of this, it seems like no permit is required to OWN, only transport, sell, etc.
@ThemantismanofPA is correct, but that is specific for these fourteen species which do not require containment facilities. Exotic isopods not on this list however, will require permits (and a containment facility) just to possess let alone sell. This is also true for exotic millipedes. Even though most millipedes don't require containment facilities, species such as AGBs require permits just for possession.
 
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