Life after death?

[14pokies]

You never know she might of. We can only wonder what if?

---------- Post added 09-12-2015 at 09:27 AM ----------

If she was already being a mom she may hold on to the sac. But who knows until it can be done. One way to find out if you are willing to take the risk, do one attempt swap the egg sac from the two different species that already mother to be.

This reminded me of switching orphaned puppys and kittens to surrogate mothers.. And now my DISTURBED mind is playing with the image of a huge T. blondi rolling and massaging a kitten like an eggsac... Meow meow...

 

[Exoskeleton Invertebrates]

This reminded me of switching orphaned puppys and kittens to surrogate mothers.. And now my DISTURBED mind is playing with the image of a huge T. blondi rolling and massaging a kitten like an eggsac... Meow meow...

Ha! Ha! Well, Mr. Mad TDoc. got me started, now I probably got everyones mind disturbed. Meow, meow.....

---------- Post added 09-12-2015 at 11:06 AM ----------

It does make me wonder how many of you would actually attempt to do this.

 

[Tfisher]

It is a question to ponder about. fruit for thought maybe species that are known for being bad mother could be fostered by a tarantula that's more gentle.

I just imagine my geniculata being raised as avics. Hahahha

---------- Post added 09-12-2015 at 10:42 PM ----------

Another update..


Examined the capsule and the "eggsoup" has turned a bright yellow color. Interesting.

Also on a worse note not just a bright yellow color was found but a black line around the rim of the capsule; indicating mold growth. at least molt has not moved inside...yet :/

As I stated earlier this experiment is over. BUT im still going to hold onto it... (Even if it has to go outside eventully) hahah

So I may not get an baby Frankenstein slings, out of this situation; however we did obtain a few very good questions. Questions that I believe someday may really help out this amazing hobby. So this experiment was not a complete failure..

 

[Exoskeleton Invertebrates]

This thread is far from over. I spoke with Jose, the person that sold the A. geniculata to Tfisher. Jose has provided the photos of the male when the male was immature and a photo of when the male was matured. Take a look.

Acanthoscurria geniculata - Before Immature Male, courtesy photo of "Novatsk".

Acanthoscurria geniculata - After Mature Male, courtesy photo of "Novatsk".

Tfisher, you paired up the wrong species, that if the male had good insertions. That's probably why your female died the geniculata mature male was to much for her. He was hung like horse!

 

[Novatsk]

I wanna know if they ever naturally hooked up .. If not that would only further prove that cross breeding the two different species (genics and brockle) is almost impossible. Kinda did tell you that Tfisher.. I questioned your female from the start .. Ive seen sacs being artificially incubated with little success and even less when they are artificially fertilized ..

 

[Tfisher]

::sign:: I never had a convo with anyone about the genic I purchased.and when I purchased the female genic it was the name stated on the container. I had no idea to question it but for future breeding attempts I will pass them through tarantula identification just for good judgment. But seriously start a new thread if you'd like to discuss that.

 

[Exoskeleton Invertebrates]

::sign:: I never had a convo with anyone about the genic I purchased.and when I purchased the female genic it was the name stated on the container. I had no idea to question it but for future breeding attempts I will pass them through tarantula identification just for good judgment. But seriously start a new thread if you'd like to discuss that.

Its a little to late to discuss it on a different thread. The bottom line is you've attempted to breed a species with a different species and hope to get a fertile sac out of your female that has passed. Wether she was alive or not you're trying to hope to produce a sac from a cross mating pair.

Did you see good insertions from the first time you paired them, that led you to believe that she was inserted good by the mature male?

 

[cold blood]

But seriously start a new thread if you'd like to discuss that.

Why?:? Every aspect of a post doesn't need a brand new thread.:wall:


I see it as totally relevant to the situation.

 

[Tfisher]

Jose what makes you so sure my female is brock?

---------- Post added 09-13-2015 at 08:25 PM ----------

I will post pictures for you I will dig up the last molt as well it maybe crushed in the Box O' molts.

 

[Exoskeleton Invertebrates]

Jose what makes you so sure my female is brock?

---------- Post added 09-13-2015 at 08:25 PM ----------

I will post pictures for you I will dig up the last molt as well it maybe crushed in the Box O' molts.

I've already seen the photos of your female that has passed. Jose showed me those photos. You can ask him to post if you like. I can tell you that it is a brocklehursti. Besides I already saw a photo of your female from your previous thread, and someone else besides me told you that you had a brocklehursti. Even Jose told you this also.

Again I'll ask you, did you see insertions on the first attempt of mating to make you believe that she would have been mated with the male?

Bes

---------- Post added 09-13-2015 at 07:44 PM ----------

Jose what makes you so sure my female is brock?

---------- Post added 09-13-2015 at 08:25 PM ----------

I will post pictures for you I will dig up the last molt as well it maybe crushed in the Box O' molts.

I've already seen the photos of your female that has passed. Jose showed me those photos. You can ask him to post if you like. I can tell you that it is a brocklehursti. Again I'll ask you, did you see insertions on the first attempt of mating to make you believe that she would have been mated with the male?

 

[Tfisher]

The male and female paired yes. I did not get pictures of the insertions but did get them of the pairing. I still dont beileve its brock... but thats my own opinion. And jose can you provide me with some data of the difference between Brock and Genic?

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

- Acanthoscurria brocklehursti is a junior synonym of Acanthoscurria theraphosoides which looks nothing like what is sold as A. brocklehursti.
- Tarantulas sold as Acanthoscurria brocklehursti in the pet trade are a variant of Acanthoscurria geniculata.

There are two forms of A. geniculata- one in which the male has vertical leg stripes on the tibia, tarsus, and metatarsus and a variant without. What Jose likes to do is ignore current research, use pictures of other misidentified tarantulas on the internet to make an ID of his spiders, and repeats the wrong names to others that have tarantulas that match the initial incorrect pet trade ID. If he were to provide good morphological evidence based on wild collected specimens, I would take his judgement more seriously.

Tfisher, you have an A. geniculata.

All that being said though, I feel that these two variants should be kept separate when breeding. Even though it wouldn't technically be a hybrid (at least by current taxonomic studies), it would add so much more confusion if offspring have various shades of the cream colored vertical leg stripes.

Read for yourself and draw your own conclusion as to what you have and what male you used for breeding.
http://www.scielo.br/pdf/zool/v31n1/08.pdf

 

[Exoskeleton Invertebrates]

- Acanthoscurria brocklehursti is a junior synonym of Acanthoscurria theraphosoides which looks nothing like what is sold as A. brocklehursti.
- Tarantulas sold as Acanthoscurria brocklehursti in the pet trade are a variant of Acanthoscurria geniculata.

There are two forms of A. geniculata- one in which the male has vertical leg stripes on the tibia, tarsus, and metatarsus and a variant without. What Jose likes to do is ignore current research, use pictures of other misidentified tarantulas on the internet to make an ID of his spiders, and repeats the wrong names to others that have tarantulas that match the initial incorrect pet trade ID. If he were to provide good morphological evidence based on wild collected specimens, I would take his judgement more seriously.

Tfisher, you have an A. geniculata.

All that being said though, I feel that these two variants should be kept separate when breeding. Even though it wouldn't technically be a hybrid (at least by current taxonomic studies), it would add so much more confusion if offspring have various shades of the cream colored vertical leg stripes.

Read for yourself and draw your own conclusion as to what you have and what male you used for breeding.
http://www.scielo.br/pdf/zool/v31n1/08.pdf

We already know from previous threads that brocklehursti is a junior synonym of A. theraphosoides. A lot of us including myself still use the name A. brocklehursti so people don't get the two confuse from geniculata and brocklehursti for breeding attempts.

Online dealers to this day are still using the name brocklehursti. I hate to burst your bubbles its not just me.

I've previous shown photos of my specimens that were in my care of the two different geniculata look alike and the two brocklehursti look alike http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/sho...ersions-of-A.-geniculata-and-A.-brocklehursti AphonopelmaTX, you seem to ignore this as well. You also ignore the fact that there are two different males one of the geniculata and of the brocklehursti see for yourself in case you missed it on previous threads.

Acanthoscurria geniculata - Mature Male

Acanthoscurria brocklehursti - Mature Male

As Poec54 once said, its best to keep them apart from each other, and that is what I will keep on doing.

Here is a perfect example from one of our members pairing A. geniculata http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?77592-Acanthoscurria-geniculata as you can see Syndicate is from the USA, he had a mature male with the white stripe bands that runs between the short black bands of the patella. His female A. geniculata has the shorter black bands on the patella also.

Here is another sample of a good pairing of the A. brocklehursti http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/sho...highlight=Acanthoscurria+brocklehursti+mating Aftershock is from Sweden, his female has the larger black bands on the patella. Aftershock's mature male does not resemble Syndicate's geniculata mature male. It resemble my old mature male that I had back in 2009 and just last years mature male I owned.

I had perfect success of keeping the two species separate from each other, why would I change this. I don't believe for one minute that they are the same species.

This are the facts, taxonomists have made their mistakes in the past it is most probable a mistake has been made again...............You wish to let TFisher know his female is a geniculata, so be it is a genic.

---------- Post added 09-14-2015 at 11:04 PM ----------

The male and female paired yes. I did not get pictures of the insertions but did get them of the pairing. I still dont beileve its brock... but thats my own opinion. And jose can you provide me with some data of the difference between Brock and Genic?

I have a hard time believing you that they actually paired. I read the text messages that you were having with Jose (Novatsk) on March 28, 2015 at 3:47 pm. In the conversation Jose asked you if you had any luck with the genic pairing? Your answer was, she's rejecting him. Jose also told you that your spider might be brocklehursti. You said, negative. Def geniculata. She's just an old crotchety b<^%!

After reading what was noted with the text messages conversation you and Jose (Novatsk) had you made us believe that your deceased female brock was paired. So they are unfertilized eggs...definitely a waste of time and just a call for attention on AB to play disection doctor when there was no chance of viability.

This is why I asked you if there was any good insertions from the first mating attempt, and you said, the male and female paired yes.
I can get a photo copy of the text messages conversation between you and Jose (Novatsk) had if needed.

You said you have a photo of pairing, I would like to see it. Even though you say you don't have a photo of the insertions, I would still not believe you that they were paired. Specially after reading the text message conversation you had with Jose (Novatsk).

 

[KcFerry]

- Acanthoscurria brocklehursti is a junior synonym of Acanthoscurria theraphosoides which looks nothing like what is sold as A. brocklehursti.
- Tarantulas sold as Acanthoscurria brocklehursti in the pet trade are a variant of Acanthoscurria geniculata.

There are two forms of A. geniculata- one in which the male has vertical leg stripes on the tibia, tarsus, and metatarsus and a variant without. What Jose likes to do is ignore current research, use pictures of other misidentified tarantulas on the internet to make an ID of his spiders, and repeats the wrong names to others that have tarantulas that match the initial incorrect pet trade ID. If he were to provide good morphological evidence based on wild collected specimens, I would take his judgement more seriously.

Tfisher, you have an A. geniculata.

All that being said though, I feel that these two variants should be kept separate when breeding. Even though it wouldn't technically be a hybrid (at least by current taxonomic studies), it would add so much more confusion if offspring have various shades of the cream colored vertical leg stripes.

Read for yourself and draw your own conclusion as to what you have and what male you used for breeding.
http://www.scielo.br/pdf/zool/v31n1/08.pdf

I agree with Jose here!
If you read through the whole Zoologia revision it includes both brocks and ferina as "junior synonyms" of geniculata, and they all look different...So, until taxonomists can clearly describe and name each species, we only have the old "hobby form" name to go by.
I have both brocks and genic's and they look very different if you know what to look for! Further...When I paired my A brocks, I thought I had mistakenly cross-bred a female genic with a brock...When my female dropped a sac, I was about to dispose of it as not to introduce 1500 hybrid slings into the hobby, but Jose asked for pic's of both my male and female, and confirmed them both to be brocklehursti. Since I'm not one to just take someones word on matters like this, I searched every forum I could find and compared as many brocks and genics as I could find and I am shocked by how many people erroneously tried pairing brocks with genic's. Even more...None of the pairings were successful! I have yet to hear of anyone succeeding at cross-breeding these two spiders, despite numerous attempts. Why is that??? My own research is clear enough for me, and that's the consistent differences in the knee stripes, and the palpal keels on the males I've studied are different! Some call it the "lock and key"...they don't fit!
BTW...What happened to Tfishers pic of his female before she died??? Looks like it was removed?
That was a picture of an A. brocklehursti!

 

[Tfisher]

I didnt remove any pictures...

---------- Post added 09-15-2015 at 05:59 PM ----------

We already know from previous threads that brocklehursti is a junior synonym of A. theraphosoides. A lot of us including myself still use the name A. brocklehursti so people don't get the two confuse from geniculata and brocklehursti for breeding attempts.

Online dealers to this day are still using the name brocklehursti. I hate to burst your bubbles its not just me.

I've previous shown photos of my specimens that were in my care of the two different geniculata look alike and the two brocklehursti look alike http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/sho...ersions-of-A.-geniculata-and-A.-brocklehursti AphonopelmaTX, you seem to ignore this as well. You also ignore the fact that there are two different males one of the geniculata and of the brocklehursti see for yourself in case you missed it on previous threads.

Acanthoscurria geniculata - Mature Male

Acanthoscurria brocklehursti - Mature Male

As Poec54 once said, its best to keep them apart from each other, and that is what I will keep on doing.

Here is a perfect example from one of our members pairing A. geniculata http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?77592-Acanthoscurria-geniculata as you can see Syndicate is from the USA, he had a mature male with the white stripe bands that runs between the short black bands of the patella. His female A. geniculata has the shorter black bands on the patella also.

Here is another sample of a good pairing of the A. brocklehursti http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/sho...highlight=Acanthoscurria+brocklehursti+mating Aftershock is from Sweden, his female has the larger black bands on the patella. Aftershock's mature male does not resemble Syndicate's geniculata mature male. It resemble my old mature male that I had back in 2009 and just last years mature male I owned.

I had perfect success of keeping the two species separate from each other, why would I change this. I don't believe for one minute that they are the same species.

This are the facts, taxonomists have made their mistakes in the past it is most probable a mistake has been made again...............You wish to let TFisher know his female is a geniculata, so be it is a genic.

---------- Post added 09-14-2015 at 11:04 PM ----------

I have a hard time believing you that they actually paired. I read the text messages that you were having with Jose (Novatsk) on March 28, 2015 at 3:47 pm. In the conversation Jose asked you if you had any luck with the genic pairing? Your answer was, she's rejecting him. Jose also told you that your spider might be brocklehursti. You said, negative. Def geniculata. She's just an old crotchety b<^%!

After reading what was noted with the text messages conversation you and Jose (Novatsk) had you made us believe that your deceased female brock was paired. So they are unfertilized eggs...definitely a waste of time and just a call for attention on AB to play disection doctor when there was no chance of viability.

This is why I asked you if there was any good insertions from the first mating attempt, and you said, the male and female paired yes.
I can get a photo copy of the text messages conversation between you and Jose (Novatsk) had if needed.

You said you have a photo of pairing, I would like to see it. Even though you say you don't have a photo of the insertions, I would still not believe you that they were paired. Specially after reading the text message conversation you had with Jose (Novatsk).

and I dont think I appreciate your tone. I brought up very usefull questions to the hobby. I didnt "play" doctor just because I was bored and wanted attention. I enjoy breeding and wanted to save my slings if poss. You have done nothing but bash me for thinking outside of the box. THEN you bring up my past messages... wow seriously creepy jose.. Do you know where I live and what my social security number is too?

I mean I have nothing to hide and would never cross breed a species intentionally.So please feel free to contuine playing your little "PI" game here on AB. Continue your personal vendetta with brock vs genic. but I wont be a part of it.

 

[Chris LXXIX]

I didnt remove any pictures...

---------- Post added 09-15-2015 at 05:59 PM ----------



and I dont think I appreciate your tone. I brought up very usefull questions to the hobby. I didnt "play" doctor just because I was bored and wanted attention. I enjoy breeding and wanted to save my slings if poss. You have done nothing but bash me for thinking outside of the box. THEN you bring up my past messages... wow seriously creepy jose.. Do you know where I live and what my social security number is too?

I mean I have nothing to hide and would never cross breed a species intentionally.So please feel free to contuine playing your little "PI" game here on AB. Continue your personal vendetta with brock vs genic. but I wont be a part of it.

I'm fascinated by the fact that i noticed in USA a lot of people use our word "Vendetta" instead of their English one for that, "Revenge". Vendetta = Revenge, in Italian.

 

[Exoskeleton Invertebrates]

I didnt remove any pictures...

---------- Post added 09-15-2015 at 05:59 PM ----------



and I dont think I appreciate your tone. I brought up very usefull questions to the hobby. I didnt "play" doctor just because I was bored and wanted attention. I enjoy breeding and wanted to save my slings if poss. You have done nothing but bash me for thinking outside of the box. THEN you bring up my past messages... wow seriously creepy jose.. Do you know where I live and what my social security number is too?

I mean I have nothing to hide and would never cross breed a species intentionally.So please feel free to contuine playing your little "PI" game here on AB. Continue your personal vendetta with brock vs genic. but I wont be a part of it.

Creepy? No, I just happen to find truth to this topic. I asked Jose if he had photos of his immature male that he had sold you, he said yes. I also asked him if he had photos of the male after he matured, Jose sent me those photos as well.
The text messages between you and Jose he told me about it willingly. I didn't even know that you both talked about on how his old male never paired with your female.

Thomas, you obviously don't deny the message you had with Jose. This thread you posted is about a spider that you stated was mated/paired. I simply posted truth/facts to your claim. Bashing you? No, you did that on your own for posting false claims. This is so far from what I have seen coming from you.

Yes I will continue to find as much needed info. between the geniculata and brocklehursti.

---------- Post added 09-15-2015 at 06:19 PM ----------

Here is a link I found that may be useful between the A. geniculata and A. brocklehursti http://www.theraphosidae.cz/imagestar/acagen1.htm

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

I agree with Jose here!
If you read through the whole Zoologia revision it includes both brocks and ferina as "junior synonyms" of geniculata, and they all look different...So, until taxonomists can clearly describe and name each species, we only have the old "hobby form" name to go by.
I have both brocks and genic's and they look very different if you know what to look for!

Read again. A. brocklehursti and A. ferina are junior synonyms of A. theraphosoides and differ not only in appearance to A. geniculata but also by the shape of the female spermatheca and male papal bulb. I don't know how much clearer it can be. There are even pictures to compare to. What happens when you ignore the variations in the leg banding? Do the male palpal bulbs and female spermatheca of your spiders match the drawings of the variations of A. geniculata? One should probably check before stating the two variants of A. geniculata are different species.

My arguments in this discussion are not for keeping the two variants separate, I firmly believe they should be. My arguments are for doing away with a scientific name that has been found to be synonymous with a completely different spider. If you want to distinguish the male with no vertical leg bands from the one's with them, call the one's without vertical leg bands A. geniculata "Amazon River downstream" and the one's with them A. geniculata "Amazon River upstream." It signifies where the two variations occur in Amazonian Brazil.

There is too much focus on the leg banding here and not enough on the characters that matter when distinguishing a species. Two good identification tools are the male palpal bulb morphology and the female's spermatheca.

 

[Tfisher]

Creepy? No, I just happen to find truth to this topic. I asked Jose if he had photos of his immature male that he had sold you, he said yes. I also asked him if he had photos of the male after he matured, Jose sent me those photos as well.
The text messages between you and Jose he told me about it willingly. I didn't even know that you both talked about on how his old male never paired with your female.

Thomas, you obviously don't deny the message you had with Jose. This thread you posted is about a spider that you stated was mated/paired. I simply posted truth/facts to your claim. Bashing you? No, you did that on your own for posting false claims. This is so far from what I have seen coming from you.

Yes I will continue to find as much needed info. between the geniculata and brocklehursti.

---------- Post added 09-15-2015 at 06:19 PM ----------

Here is a link I found that may be useful between the A. geniculata and A. brocklehursti http://www.theraphosidae.cz/imagestar/acagen1.htm

Yes im not denying the convo with jose at all... What i will deny if your "facts of the truth".. you need to stop being so bullheaded and accept facts when they are given to you. I will post the pairing pictures when my wife comes home with the phone they are on. Maybe that will feed your investigating binge. Then maybe.. just maybe.. Youll accept the fact that I bought an A genic and thats exactly what she was.

And bashing when you decide to call people names like disturbed, insane ect ect.

ANYWAY

trying to define a species by if they were to mate with each other is pretty far fetched. Ive seen a avic and g rosea pair up and they are DEFF different species. Sorry..

 

[Exoskeleton Invertebrates]

Read again. A. brocklehursti and A. ferina are junior synonyms of A. theraphosoides and differ not only in appearance to A. geniculata but also by the shape of the female spermatheca and male papal bulb. I don't know how much clearer it can be. There are even pictures to compare to. What happens when you ignore the variations in the leg banding? Do the male palpal bulbs and female spermatheca of your spiders match the drawings of the variations of A. geniculata? One should probably check before stating the two variants of A. geniculata are different species.

My arguments in this discussion are not for keeping the two variants separate, I firmly believe they should be. My arguments are for doing away with a scientific name that has been found to be synonymous with a completely different spider. If you want to distinguish the male with no vertical leg bands from the one's with them, call the one's without vertical leg bands A. geniculata "Amazon River downstream" and the one's with them A. geniculata "Amazon River upstream." It signifies where the two variations occur in Amazonian Brazil.

There is too much focus on the leg banding here and not enough on the characters that matter when distinguishing a species. Two good identification tools are the male palpal bulb morphology and the female's spermatheca.

How about the two mature males "keel" pedipalps bulbs?

http://i59.tinypic.com/be5xfa.jpg

A lot of us have been told that spermathecae is not valid to ID.