Life after death?

Exoskeleton Invertebrates

Arachnoprince
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Thomas, here is a link that you may want to take a look see post #40 this may help you if you wish to keep on open mind.

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?259175-Really-big-A.-genic-MM/page3

---------- Post added 09-15-2015 at 10:33 PM ----------

Thank you but im not denying I spoke with him.. However that doesnt prove that my female is brock.
What proves that your female was a geniculata?
I've posted info/data for you and you still are in wonderland believing is a genic. What information do you have for me, to make me believe your female was a genic?

---------- Post added 09-15-2015 at 10:35 PM ----------

Why don't you ask some of the members if they believe your female is a geniculata?
 
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lalberts9310

Arachnoprince
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Oct 9, 2014
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1,083
That avic and rosea pairing vid - I can't fathom the logic behind that? Why are people so annoyingly stupid??!
 

Tfisher

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Sep 28, 2014
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Why don't you ask some of the members if they believe your female is a geniculata?
I think you did already.

My proof is there, just as much as yours is. Thats my point.. Until more description is given on these "two" species its prob best you leave them be.

And Its not like I was going to sell them if it was a hybrid, you just assumed I was in this for the money :/
 

AphonopelmaTX

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Until more description is given on these "two" species its prob best you leave them be.
If someone wants to send me dead mature males and females (intact molts of large mature females work too) of pet trade "brocklehursti" and A.geniculata, I will gladly write up an analysis.
 

Exoskeleton Invertebrates

Arachnoprince
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If someone wants to send me dead mature males and females (intact molts of large mature females work too) of pet trade "brocklehursti" and A.geniculata, I will gladly write up an analysis.
Now there is an idea that should have been presented a while ago.

The four female specimens that I called version I, II, of geniculata and version I, II of the brocklehursti, I would have been glad to have sent you all four of them.

I still have access of getting back version II of the geniculata female I might be able to give her to you. On version I of the brocklehursti I can definitely send you her. I am suppose to get adult females of version I geniculata, I'll have to see also if I'm able to use one of them.

If I can use all four of the ones that I've mentioned, do what you have to do for scientific studies. If I can get the two different mature males, I'll send them to you as well.

Again here is the link of the four different females I'm referring too http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/sho...ersions-of-A.-geniculata-and-A.-brocklehursti

---------- Post added 09-16-2015 at 06:11 AM ----------

I think you did already.

My proof is there, just as much as yours is. Thats my point.. Until more description is given on these "two" species its prob best you leave them be.

And Its not like I was going to sell them if it was a hybrid, you just assumed I was in this for the money :/
Keep them separated, it's that to hard for you to understand?
 
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Exoskeleton Invertebrates

Arachnoprince
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Thomas, how do people tell apart Theraphosa blondi and Theraphosa stirmi? Do hobbiest take their specimens in for DNA testing or do they describe the two species by appearances?
 
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KcFerry

Arachnosquire
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Mar 17, 2014
Messages
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if I had two different species I would have kept them apart. not very hard to understand..
Since the pic's of your female magically vanished from both your threads, there is no way for any of us to examine your deceased female.
What happened to the pic in post #14 of the first thread here?...http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?277489-URGENT-A-genic-HELP!
If you could post any pic's you have of your female before she died it would solidify your claim that it was a true A. genic. The knee markings on the front two patella's are very different on brocks and genic's...Just like we generally look at T. blondi and T. stirmi...Bald knees=stirmi and fringed is blondi. From all the Acanthos I've studied, there is a clear and consistent difference in the patella's of the genic and brock.
I come here to learn and study tarantula's (not argue) so if you could post any pic's you have of the female, I'm sure we could all come to an agreement as to what T you had. I'm far more interested in finding facts than just being right. I'd love to be able to agree with you on the ID, but without those pic's this is a dead issue and you will look like you're hiding something.
I've studied these two species extensively, so I'm very interested to see if you were the first person to get them to actually breed...even if it didn't produce.
Here is a pic of my AF A. brocklehursi which I bred and produced 1562 perfect slings.
DSCF1576.JPG

This is the male...
Cropped brock.jpg

Here are the slings...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kchoZYPVfBM

All of the slings are now 2"+ and can already be easily ID'd as A. brocks.

Nobody really cares who's right here, but this could be a very useful thread if you re-posted pic's showing the front knees...top and side view of front patella's are best for ID'ing them. :biggrin:
 

Exoskeleton Invertebrates

Arachnoprince
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Messages
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Since the pic's of your female magically vanished from both your threads, there is no way for any of us to examine your deceased female.
What happened to the pic in post #14 of the first thread here?...http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?277489-URGENT-A-genic-HELP!
If you could post any pic's you have of your female before she died it would solidify your claim that it was a true A. genic. The knee markings on the front two patella's are very different on brocks and genic's...Just like we generally look at T. blondi and T. stirmi...Bald knees=stirmi and fringed is blondi. From all the Acanthos I've studied, there is a clear and consistent difference in the patella's of the genic and brock.
I come here to learn and study tarantula's (not argue) so if you could post any pic's you have of the female, I'm sure we could all come to an agreement as to what T you had. I'm far more interested in finding facts than just being right. I'd love to be able to agree with you on the ID, but without those pic's this is a dead issue and you will look like you're hiding something.
I've studied these two species extensively, so I'm very interested to see if you were the first person to get them to actually breed...even if it didn't produce.
Here is a pic of my AF A. brocklehursi which I bred and produced 1562 perfect slings.
View attachment 138981

This is the male...
View attachment 138982

Here are the slings...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kchoZYPVfBM

All of the slings are now 2"+ and can already be easily ID'd as A. brocks.

Nobody really cares who's right here, but this could be a very useful thread if you re-posted pic's showing the front knees...top and side view of front patella's are best for ID'ing them. :biggrin:
Good looking pair of brocklehursti you posted. I bet you are glad you did not disposed of the slings.

Besides myself who else told you that you had a pair of brocklehursti? I bet you did some extensive research on them. Good job Kevin! On your female producing healthy slings

---------- Post added 09-16-2015 at 04:17 PM ----------

It's clear how your male is different from Jose's mature male. Wow! Almost the same position on both spiders.

Acanthoscurria geniculata Mature Male - Courtesy photo of Novatsk
 
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Tfisher

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Messages
251
I updated the pictures.. idk why they got taken down in that thread.
 

AphonopelmaTX

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The knee markings on the front two patella's are very different on brocks and genic's...Just like we generally look at T. blondi and T. stirmi...Bald knees=stirmi and fringed is blondi. From all the Acanthos I've studied, there is a clear and consistent difference in the patella's of the genic and brock.
I come here to learn and study tarantula's (not argue) so if you could post any pic's you have of the female, I'm sure we could all come to an agreement as to what T you had. I'm far more interested in finding facts than just being right.
The issue here, as I see it, isn't that there are differences between the two spiders in question. There very obviously are! The issue is what they are being referred to as in the pet trade (some say "hobby" i say "pet trade").

KcFerry, the spiders you bred and show pictured are what has been determined by an exhaustive study of Brazilian Amazonian species of Acanthoscurria (Paula, et. al (2014) to be a regional variant of A. geniculata found in Belem, Para, Brazil. These are the same spiders being sold in the pet trade with the incorrect name of A. brocklehursti. The typical form of A. geniculata sold in the pet trade can be found in Belterra, Para, Brazil which is about 800 miles north of the other variant. It is not unusual in biology to have one species that is so widespread in their zoogeographic distribution that they develop differences and even won't breed together.

To use the incorrect pet trade name of A. brocklehursti to refer to these Belem, Para variants of A. geniculata is incredibly misleading and confuses matters. Since there are two variants of A. geniculata being bought and sold on the pet trade, they need to be separated with a more accurate name. I would suggest people, including dealers, to start using Acanthoscurria geniculata "Belem, Para" for what is being sold as A. brocklehursti and Acanthoscurria geniculata "Belterra, Para" for the typical form. These are much more accurate names given current research, keeps the two variants separate for breeders, and is a lot less confusing. I know I suggested different names for these variants in a previous post, but using the location of where variants come from is more accurate and easier to understand.
 

KcFerry

Arachnosquire
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The issue here, as I see it, isn't that there are differences between the two spiders in question. There very obviously are! The issue is what they are being referred to as in the pet trade (some say "hobby" i say "pet trade").

KcFerry, the spiders you bred and show pictured are what has been determined by an exhaustive study of Brazilian Amazonian species of Acanthoscurria (Paula, et. al (2014) to be a regional variant of A. geniculata found in Belem, Para, Brazil. These are the same spiders being sold in the pet trade with the incorrect name of A. brocklehursti. The typical form of A. geniculata sold in the pet trade can be found in Belterra, Para, Brazil which is about 800 miles north of the other variant. It is not unusual in biology to have one species that is so widespread in their zoogeographic distribution that they develop differences and even won't breed together.

To use the incorrect pet trade name of A. brocklehursti to refer to these Belem, Para variants of A. geniculata is incredibly misleading and confuses matters. Since there are two variants of A. geniculata being bought and sold on the pet trade, they need to be separated with a more accurate name. I would suggest people, including dealers, to start using Acanthoscurria geniculata "Belem, Para" for what is being sold as A. brocklehursti and Acanthoscurria geniculata "Belterra, Para" for the typical form. These are much more accurate names given current research, keeps the two variants separate for breeders, and is a lot less confusing. I know I suggested different names for these variants in a previous post, but using the location of where variants come from is more accurate and easier to understand.
I understand what you mean, and you have a valid point. It's just that most keepers and even some sellers still can't tell an A. brock from an A. genic. (yea I know that's not what you call them, but you get what I mean.) I think for the time being we forget all the locale and variant and taxonomy and get folks up to speed on how to tell them apart! It's a common theme on the boards where keepers are trying to pair the two different species because they were told by the seller it was one or the other. As the hobby continues to grow, and more and more people are trying their hand at breeding, I expect to hear a lot more of this confusion between genic's and brock's since they are so readily available and common! If we first spotlight how to properly tell them apart, the revised names will be more widely accepted...don't ya think?

Here is the easiest way to tell them apart...other than spermatheca and keel ridges.

If you look at the outer "dark" stripe on the knee, the genic has a shorter and almost triangular dark outer stripe as shown in the box...with or without the knee bent!
sub-adult F genic knee.jpg

A. brocks have a longer and almost rectangular shape to the same dark band as shown in the box.
Photo courtesy of Tfisher.
A.brock knees.jpg

I'm totally down with proper names and keeping up with all the revisions, but you first need to know what species you have!:cool:
 

Exoskeleton Invertebrates

Arachnoprince
Old Timer
Joined
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Messages
1,101
The issue here, as I see it, isn't that there are differences between the two spiders in question. There very obviously are! The issue is what they are being referred to as in the pet trade (some say "hobby" i say "pet trade").

KcFerry, the spiders you bred and show pictured are what has been determined by an exhaustive study of Brazilian Amazonian species of Acanthoscurria (Paula, et. al (2014) to be a regional variant of A. geniculata found in Belem, Para, Brazil. These are the same spiders being sold in the pet trade with the incorrect name of A. brocklehursti. The typical form of A. geniculata sold in the pet trade can be found in Belterra, Para, Brazil which is about 800 miles north of the other variant. It is not unusual in biology to have one species that is so widespread in their zoogeographic distribution that they develop differences and even won't breed together.

To use the incorrect pet trade name of A. brocklehursti to refer to these Belem, Para variants of A. geniculata is incredibly misleading and confuses matters. Since there are two variants of A. geniculata being bought and sold on the pet trade, they need to be separated with a more accurate name. I would suggest people, including dealers, to start using Acanthoscurria geniculata "Belem, Para" for what is being sold as A. brocklehursti and Acanthoscurria geniculata "Belterra, Para" for the typical form. These are much more accurate names given current research, keeps the two variants separate for breeders, and is a lot less confusing. I know I suggested different names for these variants in a previous post, but using the location of where variants come from is more accurate and easier to understand.
I understood you from a thread of mind. The problem is, that everyone is still referring the name for this species as brocklehursti. But if you like I'll be the first to make the name change by calling this species Acanthoscurria sp. "Giant White Banded" this name would be appropriate for this species.

Regardless of the name change. Mr. Mad Max TDoctor needs to face the facts that he should have done his research better before trying to pair to different species. And as I see it Thomas has a Acanthoscurria sp. "Giant White Banded", not a "Giant White Knee" as you stated on a previous post.

Thomas, it's clear that Jose's Giant White Knee never never paired with his Giant White Banded.

Here are three adults Giant White Banded species, one that I already owned and two that I just purchased today.

Acanthoscurria sp. "Giant White Banded"
 
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Tfisher

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Joined
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Messages
251
Regardless of the name change. Mr. Mad Max TDoctor needs to face the facts that he should have done his research better before trying to pair to different species. And as I see it Thomas has a Acanthoscurria sp. "Giant White Banded", not a "Giant White Knee" as you stated on a previous post.

Thomas, it's clear that Jose's Giant White Knee never never paired with his Giant White Banded.
They did Just have patience.. I will show you. Outside of being a "Mad T doctor" I have my own life too. Jeez..
 

KcFerry

Arachnosquire
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Messages
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Tfisher,
I just have to ask...
Do you still think your deceased female was a genic?
 

scott308

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No because your female was the formerly known brocklehursti. I will still as many others call this species brocklehursti so it can be kept seperately from geniculata. Or I can call it Acanthoscurria sp. "Brocklehursti" regardless what the name is, it was called brocklehursti which I have known about it when Michael Jacobi posted.
I spoke with Michael Jacobi at the North American Reptile Breeders Conference in Tinley Park, IL in March of this year. I was looking for someone selling A. brocklehursti, and he told me that some people believe they are two different species but they are wrong. He said brocklehursti IS geniculata. Also, there is no listing for brocklehursti on his Tarantula Bibliography.

http://www.exoticfauna.com/tarantulabibliography/Acanthoscurria.html
 
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