Considering getting a P. Metallica.. Thoughts?

[BorisTheSpider]

Whew, thanks for catching my typo. Good thing you knew what I meant.


I got that, my point was you could have easily made your point without all the extra exaggeration. Skewing the discussion by pointing to unrelated things IMO didn't help make the point any more valid.

I just want him to understand exactly how dangerous this situation could be . A new keeper takes advice form someone in this board and then acquires a Pokie or any medically significant OW . It gets away because they aren't prepared for that level of speed and agility . My concern is not that they get bitten but that someone else does . A child who lives next door or maybe a elderly person in the next apartment over takes the hit . I can't speak for everywhere but in my town that collector is legally responsible . I don't want to see someone get jail time and be financially ruined because they had a T escape . The "just go for it" attitude get people seriously injured and killed everyday in this country . Sometimes it takes an exaggerated example to drive home the idea that these animals have the potential to be dangerous and that a majority of the people on your community would be unhappy knowing that you have them . To prove my point I suggest that someone take a clip board of head to the nearest shopping center and tell people that you are collecting names to get a bill passed to outlaw the owning of "Venomous Arachnids" . I dare say that it wouldn't take very long to get a page or two of signatures . That's what almost happened here because someones python killed a child . For years the city kicked around the idea of outlawing all constrictors including truly harmless species such as King , Corn and Rat snakes . I want new members to understand that the hobby they have undertaken comes with both serious responsibilities and a general hatred form those who live around them . Please collect responsibly .

 

[louise f]

Fair enough, though I approach rehousing with caution regardless of the type because when working with any T that much can lead to issues. Some of my NW Ts are flighty and I have to work harder with them during a rehousing. The only T I'm really at ease around in safely in its home.

I like that, exactly friend. Every T should be treated the same way, no matter if it is OW or NW.

 

[Trenor]

My last point isn't about experience. If it was, then yes, it would be irrelevant. It's about common attitudes of OW with a humorous spin. The post I had referred to said (paraphrase) "each tarantula is different". While this is true on a "individual quirks" basis, in general, an OBT is defensive; a poec is fast, unpredictable, and potent; and a female lividum is a blue ball of cranky.


On the issue of comparing snakes to tarantulas, I think they are completly relevant examples.

Both are animals with varied venom potencies.
Both have species with more defensive/aggressive behaviors.
Both have improved competency with actual handling of less dangerous species.

I'd submit that corn snakes are like Brachypelma, Grammostola, insert common NW terrestrial here.
OW tarantulas are then easy to compare to those venomous snakes referred to earlier.

No, the way they act is not exactly the same. No tarantulas can't kill you. Yet, the principals of gaining experience is the same.


You're a math guy, I imagine it this way: sure someone can learn calculus with only some algebra under their belt, but it'll be hell. I wasn't so hot with Calc 1 so it made Calc 2 very difficult. Once I relearned (or got experience with) the basics, it all was MUCH easier.

It's the principle of experience that can be applied across multiple fields from math to snakes to tarantulas.

I can see that. I think it is important that you noted that a bite from a snake can end up with the loss of fingers/arms/toes/life and that makes it a lot different IMO. So often when people lay out arguments they go 'hollywood' with their examples instead of just giving good solid advice/information to make their valid points. In my experience, you are much more likely to bring someone over to your way of thought when you present your argument honestly with out a lot of embellishments.

You are correct. It is much easier to learn in progression in math and other things. However, if you ask 50 math teachers how much time should it take for each step of the learning progression you'll likely get at least 20 different answers.

 

[Trenor]

I just want him to understand exactly how dangerous this situation could be . A new keeper takes advice form someone in this board and then acquires a Pokie or any medically significant OW . It gets away because they aren't prepared for that level of speed and agility . My concern is not that they get bitten but that someone else does . A child who lives next door or maybe a elderly person in the next apartment over takes the hit . I can't speak for everywhere but in my town that collector is legally responsible . I don't want to see someone get jail time and be financially ruined because they had a T escape . The "just go for it" attitude get people seriously injured and killed everyday in this country . Sometimes it takes an exaggerated example to drive home the idea that these animals have the potential to be dangerous and that a majority of the people on your community would be unhappy knowing that you have them . To prove my point I suggest that someone take a clip board of head to the nearest shopping center and tell people that you are collecting names to get a bill passed to outlaw the owning of "Venomous Arachnids" . I dare say that it wouldn't take very long to get a page or two of signatures . That's what almost happened here because someones python killed a child . For years the city kicked around the idea of outlawing all constrictors including truly harmless species such as King , Corn and Rat snakes . I want new members to understand that the hobby they have undertaken comes with both serious responsibilities and a general hatred form those who live around them . Please collect responsibly .

This post had very valid points that were laid out fairly and honestly to express a good position/view on the subject. I can only speak for myself but I find this argument much more persuasive then the earlier one. I just brought it up because I personally find exaggerated examples less realistic which makes the talking point seem less valid and me personally less likely for be persuaded by them.

 

[BorisTheSpider]

This post had very valid points that were laid out fairly and honestly to express a good position/view on the subject. I can only speak for myself but I find this argument much more persuasive then the earlier one. I just brought it up because I personally find exaggerated examples less realistic which makes the talking point seem less valid and me personally less likely for be persuaded by them.

It comes from teaching music . I often give examples as opposed to stating dry boring music theory . Get preachy with a fifteen year old guitar student and they tune out completely .

 

[Trenor]

It comes from teaching music . I often give examples as opposed to stating dry boring music theory . Get preachy with a fifteen year old guitar student and they tune out completely .

I was one of those guitar students so I know what you mean.

 

[BorisTheSpider]

I was one of those guitar students so I know what you mean.

I start talking about about modes and pentatonics I see nothing but yawns and glassy eyes . I start talking about Slayer and Zeppelin songs then I have a kid hanging on every word . Oh man , i just used another example .

 

[cold blood]

I don't think it's good for the hobby to alienate Poecilitherea as if they're monsters that only the grey haired keeper can handle....

And where are you seeing this???? Not here...we suggest more experience, that's it, not a requirement of old age or saying they're monsters...no one tells new people NOT to EVER get one...we just ask that they wait till they are experienced enough.....experience matters 100 times more than what you read or watch on you tube. We don't suggest decades of experience, a year or two is all it takes, is that really too long to wait...unless you are dying, it shouldn't be.

Great point but I'll refer back to my previous comments.... I'm not trying to be smart or immature but pokies are not aggressive generally so where this superior attitude that only grey haired keepers can rear them and noobs will be destroyed is ridiculous!

Again, you are making things up in your head and applying them here....there is NO superior attitude, just education...something that willing newcomers would be (and have been) greatly helped out by listening to.....learning and research are garbage next to experience....which is exactly why most experienced keepers suggest the ladder system to work your way up to advanced species.

I'd trust someone with an OW arboreal that has 2 or 3 years experience with little research, well before I'd trust someone that's done a decade of research, but has no real experience.

What? I need to let my Haitian Brown loose for a few days just to be on par with you? I AM superior to you given I'm not 70 years old... Why throw insults?

Throw insults??...this last quote of yours is literally the only insult levied in this whole thread (and I'm pretty sure you were really just playin'). No one insulted you or anyone else....if they do, report them, its that simple.

 

[EulersK]

I like that, exactly friend. Every T should be treated the same way, no matter if it is OW or NW.

Oh come on, you're telling me that you treat a B. albopilosum the same way as a P. regalis? I don't buy it

 

[viper69]

You can be the most educated, expert on Ts, but none of that matters when it comes to avoiding bites or potential injury to the spider if you can't remain calm with them. Like what happened with my bite, if I were to have just remained calm after it shot up my arm, I doubt I would have been bit, but nope, it startled me and my "oh crap" reaction was to grab it and get it off me. I got nailed and unfortunately squished it's abdomen when i grabbed it, killing it, my boss was kinda pissed. I felt terrible about it, on top of a very painful bite.
Ive worked on my nerves over the years since via exposure- working in pet stores with numerous successful OW transfers handing blue ring octopus with nets, catching loxosceles reclusa in my offices garage, handling numerous agressive snakes and reptiles. Now I believe if a pokie shot up my arm again, I'd.able to keep my cool and calmly get it back in its enclosure without incident.

Takes time, experience and most importantly the ability to remain calm.

Blue Ringed Octopi, man that is dangerous as you know. I'm impressed that one would even try to do so given they are lethal. Given the type of animal they are, and their size, I would assume they are naturally shy, like most octopi. Is this true of Blue Ringed? They are gorgeous however. I didn't even know they were kept in captivity!

 

[viper69]

Oh come on, you're telling me that you treat a B. albopilosum the same way as a P. regalis? I don't buy it

I treat all of mine the same, with one major husbandry exception. I keep the lid open longer and more wide open on such species like my E sp Red (provided I'm watching them).

 

[louise f]

Oh come on, you're telling me that you treat a B. albopilosum the same way as a P. regalis? I don't buy it

Haha, yes i do.
Meaning that both OW and NW should be treated with respect. Just because it is a NW and i know they dont have that potent venom as OW`s. They still deserve same respect as OW`s do. And like viper says keeps the lid open longer on the E.sp red. I would do that too with NW but Never with OW.

 

[Poec54]

I went from G.Porteri to C.Meridionalis in the space of a fortnight then H.Lividum, OBT pamphs and pokie

While that works with a few people, it's a recipe for disaster for the average person. What matters here is the advice we give to the people reading this, especially beginners who look here for intelligent advice on what species to select and how to care for them. The 'dive into the deep end approach' is poor advice; they could get that from any idiot on the street. A lot of the people coming here have families, and those people are part of this when things get loose. Most don't have a separate, closed spider room; they keep them in their living rooms and bedrooms. There's a lot of crap online, so 'researching' that and care sheets doesn't really prepare them for the experience of the real thing. There's so much nonsense and bad advice for them to filter thru. Evidently you're on a beat-the-clock program with tarantulas, do what you want, but please don't advise others to do that.

 

[Chris LXXIX]

Oh come on, you're telling me that you treat a B. albopilosum the same way as a P. regalis? I don't buy it

To be honest certain NW including my old like hell 0.1 B.albopilosum are, in general and according with my experience with those, sometimes more high strung that a "under Prozac" "run & hide" 'Pokie'.

I will never understand that overestimated "hype" for 'Pokies'. The potent venom is the only valuable worth of attention thing they have, for the rest there's genus Psalmopoeus: a complete arboreal one, loaded with a more "manly" attitude than those Namaste Hare Krishna Indian fellas.

 

[Shampain88]

While that works with a few people, it's a recipe for disaster for the average person. What matters here is the advice we give to the people reading this, especially beginners who look here for intelligent advice on what species to select and how to care for them. The 'dive into the deep end approach' is poor advice; they could get that from any idiot on the street. A lot of the people coming here have families, and those people are part of this when things get loose. Most don't have a separate, closed spider room; they keep them in their living rooms and bedrooms. There's a lot of crap online, so 'researching' that and care sheets doesn't really prepare them for the experience of the real thing. There's so much nonsense and bad advice for them to filter thru. Evidently you're on a beat-the-clock program with tarantulas, do what you want, but please don't advise others to do that.

My Mrs thinks that Pokies are evil! Its because of this/your mentality that trains people! Get any T you want regardless of experience, you'll soon learn! I'm not wrong...

 

[Poec54]

Haha, yes i do.
Meaning that both OW and NW should be treated with respect. Just because it is a NW and i know they don't have that potent venom as OW`s. They still deserve same respect as OW`s do.

I treat them the same too. When you have a large collection, you really have to. Or else you'll eventually wind up using Brachypelma techniques with an OW arboreal. It's best to have one set of instinctive behaviors when doing maintenance. Train with good habits. An analogy would be: Treat every gun as if it were loaded, whether a BB gun or a .44 magnum. Never point it at anything you don't want to shoot. That way you don't develop sloppy habits and accidently use them at the wrong time.

 

[Chris LXXIX]

I treat my Theraphosidae the same as well, I always did that. Because they have, for me, the same dignity, no matter how much they are cheap, high priced, rare/not rare, their venom potency etc

It's a question of respect. A thing of the past.

 

[EulersK]

I treat them the same too. When you have a large collection, you really have to. Or else you'll eventually wind up using Brachypelma techniques with an OW arboreal. It's best to have one set of instinctive behaviors when doing maintenance. Train with good habits. An analogy would be: Treat every gun as if it were loaded, whether a BB gun or a .44 magnum. Never point it at anything you don't want to shoot. That way you don't develop sloppy habits and accidently use them at the wrong time.

To be clear, it's not like I'm reaching into enclosures with a bare hand. Even the most "docile" T's need forceps. I'm mainly referring to what both viper and louise brought up - leaving the top open longer than you would with an OW. I'm more comfortable shooting pictures with a flash with NW, as they usually don't scurry off... and even if they did, a lumbering Brachy isn't going to get very far. A pokie will be halfway up the wall by the time I realized what happened. Just an example.

 

[Poec54]

My Mrs thinks that Pokies are evil! Its because of this/your mentality that trains people! Get any T you want regardless of experience, you'll soon learn! I'm not wrong...

No, it's the bite reports, professor. Nothing evil about any animal. So your Mrs. has read Poec bite reports and is fine with an inexperienced person keeping them in the house? Not a problem if one gets loose? She's cool with the risks you take that could involve her? Good woman. Hang on to her.

You need to put your ego aside when working with animals that can hurt you. I guess you're working on that part.

 

[magicmed]

My Mrs thinks that Pokies are evil! Its because of this/your mentality that trains people! Get any T you want regardless of experience, you'll soon learn! I'm not wrong...

No offense, I don't know you well, but are you nuts?

Recommending ANY poec or even any OW species "regardless of experience" is the reason why people have problems with this hobby. Unexperienced keepers are more likely to get bit, lose the spider, kill the spider, or get someone else hurt...simply because of BAD advice like that.

Do whatever you want to do, but PLEASE don't go blabbing to new hobbiest that getting an OW off the bat is just fine and dandy. That's just flat out stupid neglegence, no other way of saying it, sorry. But at that point you're taking their lives and the lives of anyone or anything in their house into YOUR hands