clipping scorpion stingers

Leonidas

Arachnosquire
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Joined
Sep 19, 2007
Messages
62
But the anus of a scorp is at the stinger,and most scorps die when they cut it,even if it can take a month or 2...Even isd they dont feel pain,which they actually do feel pain,WHY should you take a scorp at akids party?Scorps are secretive animals that hate been held,so what is the nice thing of holding it if you dont take any responce,eg a cat?Show rthem at least a documentary about scorps instead of this...!!
 

butch4skin

Arachnoprince
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Wait, what the hell does a petstore have to do with birthday parties anyway? Do petstores host parties nowadays?
 

Corranthe

Arachnoknight
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Jul 29, 2007
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277
Wait, what the hell does a petstore have to do with birthday parties anyway? Do petstores host parties nowadays?
Either:

A) The parents pay a fee to the petstore to have live animals brought to the child's birthday party. Kind of like you can pay a fee to a farm and they'll bring a little petting zoo for the kids. Or you could pay a magician and they'll bring a bunch of cute tricks to show.

or B) It's like a store bringing a catalogue and samples of tupperware for a tupperware party. In this case the petstore brings some animals to "educate" the kids and parents and in turn the parents might be more inclined to impulse buy their kids new pets.
 

Cyris69

Arachnoprince
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Sep 10, 2007
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Either:

A) The parents pay a fee to the petstore to have live animals brought to the child's birthday party. Kind of like you can pay a fee to a farm and they'll bring a little petting zoo for the kids. Or you could pay a magician and they'll bring a bunch of cute tricks to show.

or B) It's like a store bringing a catalogue and samples of tupperware for a tupperware party. In this case the petstore brings some animals to "educate" the kids and parents and in turn the parents might be more inclined to impulse buy their kids new pets.
Definitely could see both of those reasons being logical ones.

I'd love for my locals to host invert parties.
 

arachi american

Arachnopeon
Joined
Nov 5, 2006
Messages
45
Wait, what the hell does a petstore have to do with birthday parties anyway? Do petstores host parties nowadays?
at $250 a piece for in-store and an $175 in home, average of 20 parties or so a week. maybe since they wont let me sell arachnids there (other than these poor rose hairs in tiny deli cups soaking wet and some emperor scorps all hiding under a log cuz of the constant black light) the AB society hasnt heard of the shop, but its a very large operation. 10,000+ animals. big in the large boid community, reputation for bad communication and extremely poor husbandry(12ft retics in 64qt tubs?)....

parties are bullshit, i dont do 'em. he's got other lackeys for that.

and whoever said you cant live without a limb...tell that to the million people in africs that had them machete'd off in the 90's and early 2000's. go look at their stumpy arms, "short sleave or long," who crawled miles through the jungle to rescue, and say "nah, people would bleed to death of they had a limb chopped off."
 

mr.wilderness

Arachnosquire
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Joined
Jul 31, 2007
Messages
123
The whole pain argument has been going on over and over, and it sucks, yes, but it basically comes down to this: if you aren't a cute fuzzy bunny or a fluffy baby duck, it doesn't matter if you can feel pain or not, most people still won't care what happens to you :( I'm against all of this type of mutilation, be it in the form of venomoid snakes, declawing cats, or clipping scorp stingers, whether or not the animal can "feel pain" or not is irrelevent, you're still defacing nature by doing such things.
 

butch4skin

Arachnoprince
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Feb 15, 2007
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at $250 a piece for in-store and an $175 in home, average of 20 parties or so a week. maybe since they wont let me sell arachnids there (other than these poor rose hairs in tiny deli cups soaking wet and some emperor scorps all hiding under a log cuz of the constant black light) the AB society hasnt heard of the shop, but its a very large operation. 10,000+ animals. big in the large boid community, reputation for bad communication and extremely poor husbandry(12ft retics in 64qt tubs?)....

parties are bullshit, i dont do 'em. he's got other lackeys for that.

and whoever said you cant live without a limb...tell that to the million people in africs that had them machete'd off in the 90's and early 2000's. go look at their stumpy arms, "short sleave or long," who crawled miles through the jungle to rescue, and say "nah, people would bleed to death of they had a limb chopped off."
Ok, if your leg gets chopped off, and you recieve absolutely no treatment whatsoever(the same amount of attention your wound would recieve if you were a cricket, since that is what we are comparing), you are going to die. Period. In America we are obviously light years ahead of Africa in terms of medical treatment, but still, those people you see with injuries like that didn't just walk it off, so to speak. You can bet they at the very least used a turnicate to staunch the flow, and probably some readily available herbal anti-biotic treatment. Even the most primitive cultures are well aware of the antibiotic properties of many substances found in nature. And these measures can easily mean the difference between life and death. I have a very hard time believe that a 100% untreated amputee will not die from A. blood loss, or B. blood poisoning from gangrene. Most likely A.
 

Pink-Poodle88

Arachnoknight
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Oct 28, 2007
Messages
163
Cutting off a scorpion's stinger is cruelty if you ask me, though in species such as pandinus imperator/emperor scorpions I've actually never seen one use its stinger to stun prey, probably because they know they can just use their pedipalps/claws for the most part due to their size. However, many of the other smaller and more "dangerous" species I see use their stingers to stun prey all the time. Regardless of whether the particular animal is dependant on a certain part or not, I still personally think it's wrong to remove its stingers/claws/fangs/etc.

Invertebrates lack a central nervous system, and this would lead many to believe that they "don't feel pain" but there are several reputable neurologists out there who will tell you differently if you read about the subject, and it's something that is heavily debated even among the experts still. Some say that all creatures feel pain, while some say that no organisms except for humans feel pain, and any other animals that seem to react to pain are merely only doing so "instinctively and not actually feeling pain" which sounds like a load of arrogant, pseudo-rationalist crap to me personally, but yeah, the point is that technically, it's still entirely unknown if all, or if any animals feel pain or not.

We must remember that a "different" neurological system doesn't necessarily mean an "inferior" nervous system, and we must remember that humans are animals as well. Ultimately, we must also take into consideration that all studies that have been done on the subject are really only relative to human biology and what we know about vertebrate physiology in general. In other words, one supposedly needs a brain to function, yet a jellyfish doesn't have one, which is contrary to the "laws" of biology. Most biologists will admit that invertebrates are still very poorly understood for the most part. In reality, vertebrate or invertebrate, we'll probably never know what other animals are actually "thinking" or if they "feel pain" or whatever simply because we can't just get in their heads to find out. Everything else is merely an educated guess when it really comes down to it.

But yeah, that store owner sounds pretty insensitive and irresponsible to me. I can't stand stores that don't make an effort to take proper care of their animals.
 

K3jser

Arachnobaron
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Oct 25, 2007
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303
Ffs ppl that cut of the telson should have they fingers cut off, Pandinus imperator might not use its telson to hunt prey all the time, but its there for a reason, and i dont belive they dont feel pain, allso the anus is allso placed there so you might even render it unable to well you know. If a pet store or anything like that in Denmark did that and i knew about i whould report them to the police so they chould be stopped, You might kill your scorpion trying to do it, I have seen Pandinus sp and Heterometrus sp use they telson on prey so its not only the small species that does it. I really hope no one ever listens to ppl that do that.. some ppl in the world are just stupid and should be allowed to keep animales :mad:
 

mr.wilderness

Arachnosquire
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Ffs ppl that cut of the telson should have they fingers cut off, Pandinus imperator might not use its telson to hunt prey all the time, but its there for a reason, and i dont belive they dont feel pain, allso the anus is allso placed there so you might even render it unable to well you know. If a pet store or anything like that in Denmark did that and i knew about i whould report them to the police so they chould be stopped, You might kill your scorpion trying to do it, I have seen Pandinus sp and Heterometrus sp use they telson on prey so its not only the small species that does it. I really hope no one ever listens to ppl that do that.. some ppl in the world are just stupid and should be allowed to keep animales :mad:
As upsetting as it is, I doubt many police officers (in the U.S, anyway) would rush to the defense of stinger-less scorpions. Maybe if they were cutting off kitten or puppy tails they would... :( That's why I think it's up to us, the hobbyists, to educate people so they won't do dumb stuff like this.
 

K3jser

Arachnobaron
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Oct 25, 2007
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303
Well didnt mean the Police police, but you can report them as animal cruelty and they can be charged aganst that..
 

butch4skin

Arachnoprince
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As upsetting as it is, I doubt many police officers (in the U.S, anyway) would rush to the defense of stinger-less scorpions. Maybe if they were cutting off kitten or puppy tails they would... :( That's why I think it's up to us, the hobbyists, to educate people so they won't do dumb stuff like this.
Obviously you've never witnessed the non-stop action of ANIMAL COPS, on Animal Planet. The things we pay taxes for. I love animals as much as the next guy(except rodents), but they now have they're own cops! I ask you...
 

arachi american

Arachnopeon
Joined
Nov 5, 2006
Messages
45
The whole pain argument has been going on over and over, and it sucks, yes, but it basically comes down to this: if you aren't a cute fuzzy bunny or a fluffy baby duck, it doesn't matter if you can feel pain or not, most people still won't care what happens to you :( I'm against all of this type of mutilation, be it in the form of venomoid snakes, declawing cats, or clipping scorp stingers, whether or not the animal can "feel pain" or not is irrelevent, you're still defacing nature by doing such things.
haha you obviously havent ever had to feed hundreds of rabbits off weekly. cute fuzzy bunnies with abscesses and torn ears and infected eyes and all sorts of other hell wrong with them due to overcrowding and unsanitary conditions is the norm. sometimes people ask if they can have one as a pet, then i show them the feeders and theyre appalled. ive seen rabbits with baseball sized infected lumps in them. i have NO problem putting those things out of their misery. i'm normally a fan of prekilling or at least stunning, but in the case of rabbits they die much faster in the coils of a 19ft retic than if i snap its neck.{D
 

arachi american

Arachnopeon
Joined
Nov 5, 2006
Messages
45
Ok, if your leg gets chopped off, and you recieve absolutely no treatment whatsoever(the same amount of attention your wound would recieve if you were a cricket, since that is what we are comparing), you are going to die. Period. In America we are obviously light years ahead of Africa in terms of medical treatment, but still, those people you see with injuries like that didn't just walk it off, so to speak. You can bet they at the very least used a turnicate to staunch the flow, and probably some readily available herbal anti-biotic treatment. Even the most primitive cultures are well aware of the antibiotic properties of many substances found in nature. And these measures can easily mean the difference between life and death. I have a very hard time believe that a 100% untreated amputee will not die from A. blood loss, or B. blood poisoning from gangrene. Most likely A.
in the jungle of west africa, its probably b. and in most cases the limbs were cauterized with an iron or red hot piece of metal. and crickets and spiders have the ability to drop a leg (rip it out and you got a dead cricket) when in danger. they also have exoskeletons, not flesh exposed. they are far more adapted to losing (and regenerating) appendages than humans. they dont bleed, they leak and seal up. scorpions stinger is the same but IT wont grow back. just like those peoples arms. and just like those people, its still alive, probably over the pain, but with its primary defense mechanism offline.
 

arachi american

Arachnopeon
Joined
Nov 5, 2006
Messages
45
Obviously you've never witnessed the non-stop action of ANIMAL COPS, on Animal Planet. The things we pay taxes for. I love animals as much as the next guy(except rodents), but they now have they're own cops! I ask you...
cops protect those who cant protect themselves.

except in my city...they harass and intimidate teenagers and dark skinned folk.
 

butch4skin

Arachnoprince
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That's every city chief. And animal cops is just another way to get tax money out of people. A seperate police force for protecting the rights of animals? Gimme a break...
 

butch4skin

Arachnoprince
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1,384
in the jungle of west africa, its probably b. and in most cases the limbs were cauterized with an iron or red hot piece of metal. and crickets and spiders have the ability to drop a leg (rip it out and you got a dead cricket) when in danger. they also have exoskeletons, not flesh exposed. they are far more adapted to losing (and regenerating) appendages than humans. they dont bleed, they leak and seal up. scorpions stinger is the same but IT wont grow back. just like those peoples arms. and just like those people, its still alive, probably over the pain, but with its primary defense mechanism offline.
Exactly what I said, which is why comparing mutilation of scorpions for whatever stupid reason to the wars constantly going on in Africa makes absolutely no sense. The two have naught to do with eachother. You made that comparison.
 

RoachGirlRen

Arachnoangel
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Jul 8, 2007
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994
That's every city chief. And animal cops is just another way to get tax money out of people. A seperate police force for protecting the rights of animals? Gimme a break...
Meh. I'd rather there be a few ACOs running around at my expense than using our own already overburdened police resources for animal causes.
If you don't have animal cops and animal welfare laws aren't enforced because the police are too busy, people gripe. If you get a police force up and running specifically for animals, people complain that money is being spent on it. Public opinion is very finicky; everyone wants the problems solved, but no one wants to pay for it.
 

dtknow

Arachnoking
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Aug 18, 2004
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Whether or not the scorpion feels pain does not really matter to me. But what is a scorpion without the stinger? I know a few zoos/aquariums have clipped the stingers of their stingrays to allow them to be fed by visitors. Almost certainly they can feel that.

I suppose that if the tip of the stinger were snipped off it would have no effect on the scorpion and would probably regenerate after a molt or two, no?

I suppose you could mold a ball of clay/cotton or similar onto the tip of the stinger...but again see paragraph one.
 

Avic_Litee

Arachnopeon
Joined
Jun 15, 2005
Messages
40
I've brought plenty of scorpions to schools and university events with children. There is no reason a scorpion should hurt a child if used responsibly as an educational exibit. The children don't need to handle the scorp.

Why keep a scorpion if you are going to cut off part of its body? I had a P. transvaalicus once with the tip of the stinger clipped. It was fine, but I think whoever does this definitely should not have a pet store. What a jerk.
Emily
 
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