ATTN: Poecilotheria owner, breeder or dealer.

[l4nsky]

No no, reimbursement. To cover shipping costs and materials used in shipping.

Better be able to back it up with receipts and affidavits when USFW comes knocking lol. They don't play around.

The 2023 IRS tax code allows for a one time gift of up to $17,000. Just sayin.
Seriously it may be a tiny loophole.

So a gift for a gift? Sounds like the definition of a trade, which is also illegal in this context.

 

[Dementeddoll]

According to this https://tomsbigspiders.com/2018/08/...e-ruling-on-sri-lankan-poecilotheria-species/
it is still legal to ship Sri Lankan Poecilotheria across state lines as long as no money is exchanging hands.

We should set up a breeding program, where hobbyists trade their mature animals to ensure that they're still being bred in captivity. The interstate commerce ban means that the future of these species in the hobby is at risk. It would be really unfortunate to see them disappear, but if hobbyists are willing to trade their animals to ensure they're bred, and are even willing to give away slings to ensure they're being kept by qualified keepers, I think we can make it work.

I'd volunteer to help start such a group, but I'm just now getting back into the hobby and don't even have any Poecilotheria in my collection yet.

The guy I bought my H. Pulchripes does that. He said he came together with a few hobbyists and lend eachother T’s to breed and sell. He messaged me if I wanted to be put down for a P. Smithi. I said yes.

 

[campj]

Better be able to back it up with receipts and affidavits when USFW comes knocking lol. They don't play around.


So a gift for a gift? Sounds like the definition of a trade, which is also illegal in this context.

This seems fairly unenforceable. Not like you're writing "POECILOTHERIA ORNATA" on the box when it's shipped, and unless people are dumb enough to blab on social media, who's going to find out? I say all this in theory as I'm not into breaking laws, but I'd be surprised if they aren't being shipped across state lines as we speak. The tarantula black market.

To reiterate, no need to investigate me, I am a law abiding citizen. Outside of the speed limit that is.

 

[Dementeddoll]

This seems fairly unenforceable. Not like you're writing "POECILOTHERIA ORNATA" on the box when it's shipped, and unless people are dumb enough to blab on social media, who's going to find out? I say all this in theory as I'm not into breaking laws, but I'd be surprised if they aren't being shipped across state lines as we speak. The tarantula black market.

To reiterate, no need to investigate me, I am a law abiding citizen. Outside of the speed limit that is.

Where there’s a will there’s a way. They’re a a black market for everything. There’s a dude on offer up selling snapping turtles, sharks, and an alligator. I reside in California. I’ve seen rattlesnakes, owls, hawks, and sharks for sale on there. So a tarantula would be easy to sell especially slings where lots of them look like other species when small. Look at P. Irminia and P. Cambridgei for example. So I’m sure they’d be easier to sell.

 

[Arachnopets]

and unless people are dumb enough to blab on social media

You mean on any social platform, right? Like on here, for example?

 

[campj]

You mean on any social platform, right? Like on here, for example?

If you're foolish enough to post it here you deserve to get caught lol

 

[Frogdaddy]

This seems fairly unenforceable. Not like you're writing "POECILOTHERIA ORNATA" on the box when it's shipped, and unless people are dumb enough to blab on social media, who's going to find out? I say all this in theory as I'm not into breaking laws, but I'd be surprised if they aren't being shipped across state lines as we speak. The tarantula black market.

To reiterate, no need to investigate me, I am a law abiding citizen. Outside of the speed limit that is.

Actually if you were following the letter of the law, according to the Lacey Act you do have to label the box with scientific name, common name, and quantity. Now it doesn't say how large you have to make the print.

 

[l4nsky]

Sometime I feel like a broken record lol...

Everytime one of these threads get brought up, someone mentions this and you're right. The same way you're not going to get caught every time you go 15mph over the speed limit, dont wear your seatbelts, or even use an illicit substance. Still doesn't make it legal or right to suggest (not saying you're suggesting it). As @Nightstalker47 said, it's a major problem for the breeders and dealers, and by extension, the hobbyist interested in the species. It's in everyone's interest to fully understand this law and abide by it to protect the hobby's future

On the topic of ESA listed Tarantulas...

Look, this is a topic I've done a bit of a dive on. Like a lot of hobbyists here, I started getting serious collecting Poecilotheria after the addition of the Sri Lankan species to the ESA. In addition to trying to acquire and breed some of these ESA listed Poecilotheria, there are other ESA listed animals that I would like to work with in the future. As far as I know and am aware, there are 2 current legal ways to acquire an ESA listed species of Poecilotheria:

1. Purchase or Trade IN STATE OF RESIDENCE ONLY. Having two homes in two different states is likely not a legal loop hole (see the linked thread above for a better answer). Both parties have to reside in the same state.
2. Be given as a bona fide gift or loan if there is no barter, credit, other form of compensation, or intent to profit or gain. The USFW website used to have a FAQ that made this statement and it's pretty clear. A freebie included in a tarantula order is NOT a bona fide gift, it is an intent for the dealer to profit or gain by enticing you with the potential of a rare species for free, even if the advertisement is only word of mouth.

That's it for now. There could POTENTIALLY be a third legal option in the future. USFW can issue Captive Bred Wildlife permits for animals on the ESA by a species basis (including the Sri Lankan Poecilotheria) and a CBW permit holder for a given species can sell ESA listed animals across state lines ONLY to another person who also holds a CBW permit for the same species. Currently, I don't believe anyone in the US holds a CBW permit for any of the ESA Poecilothera species or that anyone has even applied for it yet.

The guy I bought my H. Pulchripes does that. He said he came together with a few hobbyists and lend eachother T’s to breed and sell. He messaged me if I wanted to be put down for a P. Smithi. I said yes.

Something like this : US Tarantula Sustainment Project

 

[Dementeddoll]

Sometime I feel like a broken record lol...


On the topic of ESA listed Tarantulas...

Look, this is a topic I've done a bit of a dive on. Like a lot of hobbyists here, I started getting serious collecting Poecilotheria after the addition of the Sri Lankan species to the ESA. In addition to trying to acquire and breed some of these ESA listed Poecilotheria, there are other ESA listed animals that I would like to work with in the future. As far as I know and am aware, there are 2 current legal ways to acquire an ESA listed species of Poecilotheria:

1. Purchase or Trade IN STATE OF RESIDENCE ONLY. Having two homes in two different states is likely not a legal loop hole (see the linked thread above for a better answer). Both parties have to reside in the same state.
2. Be given as a bona fide gift or loan if there is no barter, credit, other form of compensation, or intent to profit or gain. The USFW website used to have a FAQ that made this statement and it's pretty clear. A freebie included in a tarantula order is NOT a bona fide gift, it is an intent for the dealer to profit or gain by enticing you with the potential of a rare species for free, even if the advertisement is only word of mouth.

That's it for now. There could POTENTIALLY be a third legal option in the future. USFW can issue Captive Bred Wildlife permits for animals on the ESA by a species basis (including the Sri Lankan Poecilotheria) and a CBW permit holder for a given species can sell ESA listed animals across state lines ONLY to another person who also holds a CBW permit for the same species. Currently, I don't believe anyone in the US holds a CBW permit for any of the ESA Poecilothera species or that anyone has even applied for it yet.


Something like this : US Tarantula Sustainment Project

Yes, sir. Haha, that’s why I said yes.

 

[CutThroat Kid]

I'm gonna be ticked if I can't at least acquire a P. metallica before I die.

lol. And just like that, the hobby crumbles. What will we do without the meta-species of the hobby? (Pun-intended).

People will have to start idolizing something else expensive, like Typhochlaena Seladonia instead--too bad it's a trapdoor that never comes out to play.

 

[Dementeddoll]

lol. And just like that, the hobby crumbles. What will we do without the meta-species of the hobby? (Pun-intended).

People will have to start idolizing something else expensive, like Typhochlaena Seladonia instead--too bad it's a trapdoor that never comes out to play.

They’re easy to get. At least in Cali they are.

 

[Tentacle Toast]

Hey, what about, now hear me out...what about a "DIY preserved specimen kit" that includes everything you need to preserve a specimen, including THE specimen, & with the pitch being that you get to customize the stage of development you'd like preserved...

 

[Kada]

lol. And just like that, the hobby crumbles. What will we do without the meta-species of the hobby? (Pun-intended).

People will have to start idolizing something else expensive, like Typhochlaena Seladonia instead--too bad it's a trapdoor that never comes out to play.

It's cheap for most of us, y'all Americans just need to pull yourselves together haha. Cheap, pretty, great eater, out a lot. the ideal 8 legged wonder to idolize. So sad about its numbers in the wild though.

Actually if you were following the letter of the law, according to the Lacey Act you do have to label the box with scientific name, common name, and quantity. Now it doesn't say how large you have to make the print.

No idea about the Lacey act, but it might differ to general label laws. Many countries for say food products must be over 2mm for at least the name, ingredients and responsible companies as an example. If one is to going to do it, might be worth checking. Though I assume small print on the contents section of any invoice/shipping form will draw more attention.


Are there any other countries with similar type restrictions outside CITES?