Arana Polita - Chicken Spider Diary

[robd]

I've had a problem with the "chicken spider" epithet from day one. You're taking an imported unidentified spider and calling it by the name of another unidentified spider from a different region. On top of that, you're saying these are the same unidentified spiders based on extremely imprecise behavioral characteristics and itchiness of urticating hairs. There is already enough confusion and hype over the chicken spider (antinous or not? Huge price tag) that I feel like you're forcing the chicken spider name onto it for the perceived rarity and desirability of the spider. I'm not saying that it's not the mythical chicken spider. I am saying that there is simply not enough information to say that it is and forcing the name chicken spider on it (or arana pollito) is only going to make an already confusing situation even worse.

If you read any of the excerpt from the post from the BTS forum that I posted, the differences between P antinous and P whateveryouwanttocallit are clear. Only a taxonomist is going to get so specific to start talking about particular tarsus and what have you. Does it honestly bother you that much? I guess you better get on all of those other Genus sp. notofficial T's that are out there on the market and plead your case for them.

Moreover, there's no price tag! He's not selling them! I don't know if you noticed, but ever since 02-03 when the news of these chicken spiders broke out, there has never been a post on the For Sale/Trade section of this forum until this past Sunday. When there was two. I'm not going to delve into that potential controversy there, but the point is there's no price tag involved here. He saved up the money and shelled it out to go through the proper legal hurdles (Exports, etc.) to get it done. Which can be upwards of $2400. That's a lot if you aren't selling inverts for a living and can justify the expense.

As he stated, he planned it since December of 2008 anyway.

 

[jbm150]

I call BS. When he nudged the spiders and they moved, you could hear a little buzzing noise of internal gears working.

Ok, I'm just kidding, awesome stuff and thank you for posting the videos. Proof of chicken spiders or not, its neat to see tarantulas together in the same tank. The work being done here with these spiders and Ken's attempt with P. antinous really opens up some new avenues in the hobby. Thanks again and look forward to more!

 

[Jilly1337]

How exciting would it be to find out ALL Pamphobeteus are communal? I just love seeing all different sizes together like that.

Great thread. Thanks again!!

 

[gromgrom]

did the naysayers disappear? i went through this topic for the first time, and wow, yeah, the videos seemed to stop that.
and like others have said; he spent upwards of 2400 dollars and hasnt made any selling or trading offers. give the guy a break.

 

[Moltar]

Maybe they felt stupid for crapping all over someone who's just trying to accomplish something good for this hobby.

 

[robd]

Let's hope so.

 

[robd]

On a lighter note. Dude, Abraxas. You look like a grown up version of Reese from Malcolm in the Middle. I just thought you should know this.

 

[AbraxasComplex]

Thanks for the support guys.

And I have not received that comparison before. But keep in mind I just got back from a 10 hour day at school and was working on my background for the arana pollito tank, and M.balfouri tank. Haha.

I have however, depending what I'm wearing or how I've done my hair, been told that I look like a much younger version of Daniel Craig. I don't see it.

 

[jayefbe]

If you read any of the excerpt from the post from the BTS forum that I posted, the differences between P antinous and P whateveryouwanttocallit are clear. Only a taxonomist is going to get so specific to start talking about particular tarsus and what have you. Does it honestly bother you that much? I guess you better get on all of those other Genus sp. notofficial T's that are out there on the market and plead your case for them.

Moreover, there's no price tag! He's not selling them! I don't know if you noticed, but ever since 02-03 when the news of these chicken spiders broke out, there has never been a post on the For Sale/Trade section of this forum until this past Sunday. When there was two. I'm not going to delve into that potential controversy there, but the point is there's no price tag involved here. He saved up the money and shelled it out to go through the proper legal hurdles (Exports, etc.) to get it done. Which can be upwards of $2400. That's a lot if you aren't selling inverts for a living and can justify the expense.

As he stated, he planned it since December of 2008 anyway.

You are completely missing my point. Without a proper identification, he is still calling it chicken spider. Given all the confusion with the Pamphobeteus genus in general, and the chicken spider issue in particular, I think it would be prudent to give them a distinct name separate from anything having to do with chicken spider until they can be correctly identified by a taxonomist. Perhaps P. sp. Iquitos?

I understand how much it costs to do export/imports. I understand it very clearly. Which brings up another question. How did Abraxas find an exporter willing to ship so few specimens? It goes against everything I've heard about the import/export process up to this point.

I'm not accusing anyone of anything, let me make that very clear. I'm just making points, and asking questions that I think a lot of people have. If you want to blow it out of proportion and say I'm "attacking the OP" then that's your agenda. I'm clearly not. I'm asking perfectly legitimate and relevant questions. Given the overall tone of this thread, there's a lot of skepticism. Addressing these issues with forthright honesty will do a lot to diminish it.

 

[AbraxasComplex]

I understand how much it costs to do export/imports. I understand it very clearly. Which brings up another question. How did Abraxas find an exporter willing to ship so few specimens? It goes against everything I've heard about the import/export process up to this point.

I had previously made a large order from Peru in the past that cost me a pretty penny. So he knew I was good for the funds and I knew he was more trustworthy than others.

The next order with these tarantulas was a special request and the only way he would agree to it was if I payed his travel costs to Lima to get the animals to the airport, the cost of the permit, etc. So more than half the order cost was to cover his expenses (above and beyond what I'm sure he needed). He loaded me with costs to deter me from doing a small order. I still went through with it.

I have done this before with imports from Europe, from Chile, etc. I am not in it for the profit. To make it profitable on my side I would have to order a huge amount of animals and sell them. I do not want to do this, nor do I want to be stuck with 50 more tarantulas/centipedes/scorpions than I know what to do with.

With many exporters they make the money on the animals and none of the other fees, hence why they want large orders. I offer to cover every fee before hand and that is when they usually bump up the price of the cost of a permit (a $70 permit suddenly becomes $200), or shipment to get their profit.

Not all exporters will do this. Believe me I have tried with many, but occasionally you will get the odd one who is willing to do so. Who wouldn't want to make almost the same amount of profit on a small order that you would with a large order when less work is involved?

 

[jayefbe]

Thanks for answering my question, Abraxas, and that definitely clears it up for me. It seemed odd finding an exporter willing to do such a small shipment, but it sounds like you'd already developed a relationship with this particular exporter.

 

[Roski]

Honestly, as far as board controversies go, this was by far one of the most civilly conducted that I have ever seen. Couldn't have happened to a better thread.

Abraxas, I'm glad you could put your critics' minds at ease. This is an awesome project- please keep it up!

 

[KenTheBugGuy]

point

I would like to point out that yes I did say my other thread was not directed at him it was directed at the general idea of how people ID stuff and that is very true. I also was not saying he does not have "chicken spiders" but that there are ways to ID them correctly as not being Antonious with macro pictures. The things used so far as saying they are "chicken spiders" is not entirely scientific. He is not doing a bad job either with little at his disposal. I am not saying that he is not a good guy, or that he is trying to pull a quick one and hope he understands this. I also did not say in this thread his pictures were not real and actually did say they could have just been taken at different times if you read back. I hope he does not feel that I attacked him personally. One thing I feared from this thread is that some people out there will read a few things on this thread and suddenly have chicken spiders instead of just an "SP" or Antonious. Then they will try selling those "chicken spiders" for crazy amounts to unsuspecting people. I hope that clears things up and I wish him luck and hope that his experiments help us all be it that they are one SP or another.

Do realize that they call most big tarantulas over there chicken spiders and that is just a common name that has been given to what some are trying to Identify as I understand. P antonious has been called chicken spider in the past as a common name cause that is all it is. Now I want this thread to keep going as I would love to see more pictures and behaviors in the future of the species he does have no matter which pampho it is as it is interesting! I will also share my pictures of my Antonious and the experience of them together here in the next week.

 

[KenTheBugGuy]

videos

Also thanks fro the videos hope we can see more in the future.

 

[robd]

You are completely missing my point. Without a proper identification, he is still calling it chicken spider. Given all the confusion with the Pamphobeteus genus in general, and the chicken spider issue in particular, I think it would be prudent to give them a distinct name separate from anything having to do with chicken spider until they can be correctly identified by a taxonomist. Perhaps P. sp. Iquitos?

I understand how much it costs to do export/imports. I understand it very clearly. Which brings up another question. How did Abraxas find an exporter willing to ship so few specimens? It goes against everything I've heard about the import/export process up to this point.

I'm not accusing anyone of anything, let me make that very clear. I'm just making points, and asking questions that I think a lot of people have. If you want to blow it out of proportion and say I'm "attacking the OP" then that's your agenda. I'm clearly not. I'm asking perfectly legitimate and relevant questions. Given the overall tone of this thread, there's a lot of skepticism. Addressing these issues with forthright honesty will do a lot to diminish it.

Well I guess the point I was "missing" when it comes to taxonomy is really just arguing semantics. Which I don't see the point of at all. And obviously the dude's not a taxonomist. If he was he'd probably have the $$$ to go to Peru himself.

It's like I said earlier. A lot of what was said, some of which were accusations (not necessarily by you, depending on how you meant it jayefbe, cause I cannot derive tones of voice from text) seemed obscure and quick to judgment to me. I just don't see the need to question such enthusiasm and the willingness to document it as a project so harshly without any provocation.

I quoted your piece in the thread because you jumped in on it and seemed to try to shed light on new possible conspiracy theories beyond pictures being photo-shopped. On the other hand, I reached out, contacted him when this thread began and learned more about what he has going on and how exactly he managed to get a hold of the elusive chicken spiders. The last thing I wanted to do was sway the conversation in the thread from discussing the T and it's behaviors/etc to how did you even import these, how do you even know this is the actual CS, you shouldn't be calling this the CS etc etc.

 

[robd]

I would like to point out that yes I did say my other thread was not directed at him it was directed at the general idea of how people ID stuff and that is very true. I also was not saying he does not have "chicken spiders" but that there are ways to ID them correctly as not being Antonious with macro pictures. The things used so far as saying they are "chicken spiders" is not entirely scientific. He is not doing a bad job either with little at his disposal. I am not saying that he is not a good guy, or that he is trying to pull a quick one and hope he understands this. I also did not say in this thread his pictures were not real and actually did say they could have just been taken at different times if you read back. I hope he does not feel that I attacked him personally. One thing I feared from this thread is that some people out there will read a few things on this thread and suddenly have chicken spiders instead of just an "SP" or Antonious. Then they will try selling those "chicken spiders" for crazy amounts to unsuspecting people. I hope that clears things up and I wish him luck and hope that his experiments help us all be it that they are one SP or another.

Do realize that they call most big tarantulas over there chicken spiders and that is just a common name that has been given to what some are trying to Identify as I understand. P antonious has been called chicken spider in the past as a common name cause that is all it is. Now I want this thread to keep going as I would love to see more pictures and behaviors in the future of the species he does have no matter which pampho it is as it is interesting! I will also share my pictures of my Antonious and the experience of them together here in the next week.

Ah, thanks for clarifying. I am eager to see your pics of the P antinous together. They should be neat. You should make videos too if you can. That'd be awesome.

Oh and I'd definitely like to see more videos of your CS's as well, Abraxas.

 

[sharpfang]

This Complex Guy Has Inspired Me 2 Do a 50 Gal. Naturalistic Communal Set-Up

With a Mayan Theme :razz: Like Tiqal and Zuma

I call BS. When he nudged the spiders and they moved, you could hear a little buzzing noise of internal gears working.

LOL - That's the kinda Humor that I like

How exciting would it be to find out ALL Pamphobeteus are communal? I just love seeing all different sizes together like that.

LOL - I already found that NOT 2 B true Unfortunately -

My Sp. Recife molted past an Inch Jilly :razz:

 

[AbraxasComplex]

I hope the P.antinous experiment is a success. I tried it as well many months before I got the chicken spider. Ever try to separate 16 sprawling legs and 4 fangs from one another? Not fun.

I tried with several groups, pairings, and ages. Thankfully no casualties, but the scraps were not a positive sign.


I shall post videos soon. And the tank background is almost cured. 7 more days and I can start planting the tank.

 

[robd]

Awesome! I can't wait to see. That enclosure is going to look B.A.

 

[LadySharon]

Darn. I've been following this thread because I like the idea of a communal spider like this. I've enjoyed the pics and was looking forward to the videos. But I just watched them and to be honest I can't see a darn thing.

Looking forward to vids when you have a better set up and maybe a clip lamp or something.

- Sharon

PS - oh wanted to ask - do they share prey? esp. the slings? I've seen house spiders do this and wondered if any T's do.