Anyone Never Handle Their Tarantula?

[BatGirl]

both of my Ts are very docile and if i need to remove anything/clean the tank, i just use my hands. I do handle them, but very seldomly. I use the plastic container to get my rosea out if I need to

Me, too. My rose (Lady Romana - my first) and pinktoe (Ahsoka) are both docile enough to handle without much concern... (i.e they are new world tarantulas) except Romana kinda got mean on her last molt! (hmmm, plastic container, eh...) :\

Even though it's slightly off topic, thought this was interesting and informative. While looking to see if T's can provide a lethal bite, I found an article on the effects of spider bites in dogs and humans- venom is much more potent in canines.

ouch - right thru the fingernail, WOW!

article does say "...unlikely to cause major problems in humans..." (emphasis added). So, nine rolls of the dice (let's assume no child or old person was involved), with one getting some systemic reaction (probably an old person, heh, heh). Sounds like 'unlikely' could get to become major with more rolls of the dice

 

[Xian]

you should send avicularia man a pm; you two would get along wonderfully.

rofl!!!!!!!!!!!!{d

 

[Mack&Cass]

So BatGirl, do you not pet dogs or anything? Because I can sure link you many cases of dogs killing people, and the death not be from secondary infection like that one reported T death. The death was from an infection from the bite...not from the venom. You could get bit by pretty much anything, develop an infection, and left untreated...yes, it could kill you. But if your H. lividum bit you and you got an infection, I'm pretty sure you'd go to the hospital, right?

You "roll the dice with your health" no matter what pet you keep. You could get an oscar and it could bite your finger off and you could bleed out, you could get a retic and it could eat you, your cat could claw your face off, your hamster could organize an army of ants to infiltrate your body and eat it from the inside out while you sleep.

Of course these are all extremely unlikely scenarios, but so is dying from a tarantula bite.

Cass

 

[Shell]

your hamster could organize an army of ants to infiltrate your body and eat it from the inside out while you sleep.


Cass

LOL

Im pretty sure my demon hamster is trying to organize something along these lines

 

[JimM]

I don't have time for this inane thread.
I have to go rehouse my Sri Lankan Long Femured Ornamental Tiger Tree Spider.

 

[BatGirl]

gross over-compensation alert... professional assistance needed?

So BatGirl, do you not pet dogs or anything (just my cockatoo)? Because I can sure link you many cases of dogs killing people, and the death not be from secondary infection like that one reported T death (two deaths, one infection, and one loss of foot if you're talkin' about the incidents in india). The death was from an infection from the bite...not from the venom. You could get bit by pretty much anything, develop an infection, and left untreated...yes, it could kill you (so could this rant!). But if your H. lividum bit you and you got an infection, I'm pretty sure you'd go to the hospital, right? (I have no insurance so the hospital is out. Also I'm very old, recently had surgery on my left lung and currently have extensive nerve damage and a heart issue from the surgery and lung collapse - but I'd be glad to try to die if it would please you and it would not take any infection)

You "roll the dice with your health" no matter what pet you keep. You could get an oscar and it could bite your finger off (pretty big oscar, eh?) and you could bleed out, you could get a retic and it could eat you, your cat could claw your face off (my cockatoo eats cat faces, so no threat there and I have no cat - got ate by the bird, heh, heh), your hamster (they are dwarf hamsters who could not organize their own fleas)could organize an army of ants to infiltrate your body and eat it from the inside out while you sleep.

Of course these are all extremely unlikely scenarios, but so is dying from a tarantula bite (or listening to this rant).

Cass

I'm speechless... and agree with JimM about inane :?

 

[Mack&Cass]

In case you didn't know this, in India they don't have the kind of medical help that we do here, so dying of an infection over there is a lot more likely. And saying that you dying would please me is just ridiculous. Talk about needing professional assistance...

And if anyone dies from reading my "rant", then I'll gladly pay their funeral bills.

Try living in reality for a few minutes, you may like it.

Cass

 

[xhexdx]

Ignorance alert

When you try to argue with someone as ignorant and stubborn as this...everyone is a winner!

Also, BatGirl, if you have so many health problems, maybe your Burmese Cobalt Blue isn't the best pet, since, you know, they're deadly.

</sarcasm>

 

[BatGirl]

perhaps death is just nothing to fear...

Also, BatGirl, if you have so many health problems, maybe your Burmese Cobalt Blue isn't the best pet, since, you know, they're deadly.

So's my .357, but I keep it just the same...

And even with the possible risks... see:
http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=170564

 

[xhexdx]

Yes, yes, I read it. You're my hero.

 

[Venom]

BatGirl,

You do realize that MrDeranged is the site founder and head admin, right? I would recommend avoiding making any snide/ condescending remarks his direction.

As for the danger of an Old World tarantula bite, I have read preeetty much all the literature on the subject. I've "done" this debate more times than I can count, and could write the book on this subject. Like my screen-name indicates, I am the member who is, probably more than anyone else here, all about issues of venom, venomous species, and invertebrate envenomations. It's my special interest of research and discussion on this forum. I know what I'm talking about.

As far as documented medical history shows, no human has ever died of a Theraphosid envenomation. There was an anecdotal report of a man from Indonesia dying from a tarantula bite to his foot. The cause of death was actually infection from the bite being on his FOOT, in a country where sanitation is not concern #1. Death was by gangrene, and the venom had nothing to do with it. He could have gotten the same infection by stepping on a nail, since all that killed him was an infected HOLE in his foot. In fact, the venom probably helped, as T venom is a mild antibacterial.

Another report, from China, dealing with what was then called Selenocosmia huwena ( Ornithoctonus sp. now I believe ), reported that an infant had succumbed to a bite on the buttocks. This was in rural China, so the report was never documented by medical personnel--it was simply a village rumor.

This is the tone of "death by tarantula" reports that we get: nobody can prove them, hospitals/ doctors were not involved, and the natives ( I wonder why it's always in rural, underdeveloped settings..hmmm) claim that a large spider killed their kid/ uncle, or what-have-you.

Here is the skinny: no tarantula bite is capable, on its own, of causing a human fatality. Ever. There MUST be a coinciding medical condition. I'm sure you must be aware of Poecilotheria, Selenocosmia, Stromatopelma, Heteroscodra, Selenotypus, Phlogius, Lampropelma, Ornithoctonus, Chilobrachys, Citharischius, Hysterocrates, and all the other larger/ more-toxic of the Old World tarantulas, right?? Well--NOT ONE of them has ever produced a life-threatening envenomation, as far as ALL medical records show, from ALL nations of the world, across ALL of recorded time!!!!!!

And that is even WITH many bite victims being in less-than-perfect health. Honestly, the chances of dying from a Theraphosid bite from any species, is astronomically low.

And yet, there is a chance that, if you had, say, severe heart disease, that a Stromatopelma bite might put you over the edge into a life-and-death situation. MIGHT. Or, a bite from Poecilotheria, because of the severe swelling it causes, could PERHAPS cause a dangerous condition if you had uncontrolled diabetes, in which reduced blood-flow can lead to gangrene. Or perhaps you have muscular dystrophy, or cystic fibrosis, and your muscular/ respiratory system is compromised already to a severe extent...there is a small chance that a Poecilotheria/ Selenotypus bite could be dangerous to you.

But....IT'S NEVER HAPPENED!!! It's all just speculation! I can conjecture all I like, and compare organ weaknesses of a human to the organ systems a venom targets and say, yep, looks like a match: Spider A would aggravate Condition X...but the outcome is totally speculative. You cannot say that any--ANY--tarantula is deadly, or even dangerous. All that can be said, is that they are "medically significant." Since you don't seem up on these terms, here's the breakdown:

"Deadly" --Causing threat to life is a normal/ frequent result when untreated

"Dangerous" -- Causing threat to life is unlikely, but occasionally possible.

"Medically significant" -- Causing threat to life is impossible without a strong, pre-existing condition that combines with the bite, to produce a hybrid syndrome of venom + disease.

A FEW tarantulas are "medically significant," which means that they are "dangerous" only to those who have very, very serious diseases already. That's all there is to it. Read the Bite Report section of this forum--no deaths in there!

 

[BatGirl]

Legend

Yes, yes, I read it. You're my hero.

just read about your bite from your cobalt - ouch and then some... wow - you really are a legend!

 

[BatGirl]

more ganging-up on the caped crusader...

You do realize that MrDeranged is the site founder and head admin, right? I would recommend avoiding making any snide/ condescending remarks his direction.

...so, the group mind is down to intimidation now?

As for the danger of an Old World tarantula bite, I have read preeetty much all the literature on the subject. I've "done" this debate more times than I can count, and could write the book on this subject.

Yeah, sure, ya bet ya... so, why haven't you written a book on this - problems getting published? It's not hard, just work at it and also remember you must also have good credentials

There was an anecdotal (unpublished, but may be the truth) report of a man from Indonesia dying from a tarantula bite to his foot...Another report, from China, dealing with what was then called Selenocosmia huwena ( Ornithoctonus sp. now I believe ), reported that an infant had succumbed to a bite on the buttocks.

...more deaths! Does it ever stop - the horror

Poecilotheria, Selenocosmia, Stromatopelma, Heteroscodra, Selenotypus, Phlogius, Lampropelma, Ornithoctonus, Chilobrachys, Citharischius, Hysterocrates, and all the other larger/ more-toxic of the Old World tarantulas, right?? Well--NOT ONE of them has ever produced a life-threatening envenomation, as far as ALL medical records show, from ALL nations of the world, across ALL of recorded time!!!!!!.

.. and in ALL the dimensions, and of ALL the levels of existence, and ALL... well, you know! :clap:

there is a chance that, if you had, say, severe heart disease, that a Stromatopelma bite might put you over the edge into a life-and-death situation. MIGHT. Or, a bite from Poecilotheria, because of the severe swelling it causes, could PERHAPS cause a dangerous condition if you had uncontrolled diabetes, in which reduced blood-flow can lead to gangrene. Or perhaps you have muscular dystrophy, or cystic fibrosis, and your muscular/ respiratory system is compromised already to a severe extent...there is a small chance that a Poecilotheria/ Selenotypus bite could be dangerous to you. .

Uh, Oh, we're waivering now... let's not admit it could ever cause a death. We must deny! We must - we must - we must ...

I can conjecture all I like.

Good for you! Isn't this a GREAT country?

You cannot say that any--ANY--tarantula is deadly, or even dangerous.

Yeah, sure, ya bet ya... no wait! Watch this:

BatGirl says "Old world tarantulas can cause death in rare cases."

There, I evidently can say that - especially if this is also said by others who have published literature on tarantulas. Of course they didn't have to get thrashed for it.

I sure miss SpiderTalk....

 

[Mad Hatter]

BatGirl says "Old world tarantulas can cause death in rare cases."

That kind of statement right there is not at all helpful to our hobby. In fact, those are the exact kinds of notions people not immersed in the hobby would be likely to spread.

And if you are going to continue to persistently perpetuate this insanely unfounded gem of knowledge, why don't you provide some of those sources/links that you claim are "so easy to find?"

Btw... you don't have to be right all the time to be a productive/accepted part of the AB community. I've been a member this long and every mistake you make just expands your knowledge. It's a good thing to be constantly learning new things. And it doesn't make you any less of a person to admit when you are wrong and then grow from there.

 

[Mister Internet]

I sure miss SpiderTalk....

You'd prefer a place where everyone considered your opinion valid just because it popped out of your head? That doesn't work here... there's a reason THIS site is still around, and it's because people take potentially harmful information seriously, and take the (unwitting) damaging effects of distributing improper information to hobby newbies very seriously as well. It's not personal... you're making it personal, but people are only trying to correct your improper grasp of all available facts, they aren't concerned with making you look bad personally just because you have some incorrect information. You seem to have in in your head that your opinion deserves to be respected, facts be damned, and that's just not how real discussions work, sorry.

Venom made a very thoughtful post responding very methodically and coherently to all your points, and the ONLY response you had for him was to mock him about not getting published. In debate circles, this is called a Red Herring logical fallacy. You distract from the original points addressed by bringing up other points that have nothing to do with anything, and attack those to try to appear as if you've "won" some kind of point, when in reality, all you did was avoid the points he raised. People who are confident in their grasp of all available facts on a matter generally don't feel the need to avoid points they should be equipped to discuss.

I would suggest that if you are going to continue to behave this way, that you may not be cut out for online discussion forums. Your assertion was proven incorrect... or at least, was proven to be so astronomically unlikely as to make a statement of its possibility incorrect for all intents and purposes, which is the same thing. If you're going to continue arguing, and it appears you like arguing for no better reason than people disagree with you, then at least have the decency to rebut valid points with you own valid points, in a reasonable, civilized manner. Otherwise, why should anyone else take you seriously?

Everyone else: it appears she enjoys being argumentative, and I would suggest not playing into it if you can't control yourselves. You've been warned.

 

[Satanika]

...so, the group mind is down to intimidation now?

No one is trying to intimidate anyone here. Please, you really need to get over yourself. Once again, persecution complex.

I sure miss SpiderTalk....

You DO have other options. Please, feel free to utilize them.

 

[Satanika]

<snip>

Everyone else: it appears she enjoys being argumentative, and I would suggest not playing into it if you can't control yourselves. You've been warned.

Crap, does your warning still count for me if I was mid reply and didn't read it until my response was already posted? LOL ;P

 

[BatGirl]

goodby - the point is made, everything else is subterfuge

suggest not playing into it

I try, but it is so easy to get drawn back into defending oneself from the over-compensation attacks... so crafty!

I think it is the overwhelmingly multi-pronged attack [and it's not just an attack on the idea of a possibility of death from an OWT bite, it's an attack on everything! It even tracks the denial sendrome list completly!] that makes one forget what's really going on.. and the next thing you know - bam! More pile on...

...there's a reason THIS site is still around (responding to those who miss the old SpiderTalk.NET), and it's because people take potentially harmful information seriously...

Actually, SpiderTalk.NET kept getting hacked is why it is no longer around... not going to point fingers, but... well, we had the same problem with GAInspector.org, which is now locked and owned by the Russians!

 

[Venom]

May I make one point?

As far as being published goes, I am in the credits of a History Channel tarantula documentary, published on national TV, October 2008. I worked as a liaison between the filmmakers and the hobby community, getting people here involved in the film, and securing specimens for filming. Also working on that doc' were Philth ( an experienced and very long-standing member here), and Rick C. West, the celebrity arachnologist. I may one day write a book, but for the moment I am busy working on a Master's Degree.

Have a nice day.


And MrI, thank you.

 

[Nerri1029]

I try, but it is so easy to get drawn back into defending oneself from the over-compensation attacks... so crafty!

I think it is the overwhelmingly multi-pronged attack [and it's not just an attack on the idea of a possibility of death from an OWT bite, it's an attack on everything! It even tracks the denial sendrome list completly!] that makes one forget what's really going on.. and the next thing you know - bam! More pile on...

point that sharpened diagnostic tool at your self for just a minute.

<added for On topic >

I do not handle my T's as a rule.
I have handles plenty of mine but it is due the occasions that arise from transferring and other housekeeping.
MOST handling events have been due to packing for shipment.

I have learned to keep my cool back when I kept herps.
My only real serious case of nerves was when I had a 3" S. calceatum on my forarm heading for higher ground.