Anyone Never Handle Their Tarantula?

[BatGirl]

Listen, P. ornata will pull your arm off and beat you with it, but let's not get into that here.

So, exactly WHERE do we get into that arm pulling thing if not here?

(I think someone is pulling someone's leg though...)

 

[BatGirl]

For me the novelty of handling wore off years ago. Mind you i'll poke and prod any of my new world t's around with my hands so I can get them from point A to point B lots quicker (yay for venom that weilds the power of the q-tip!) but due to getting around 9 bites or so mostly from old worlders I learned pretty fast to keep my hands well away from those guys LOL ;P

After getting nailed 9 times - no wonder the novelty 'wore off'!

Just curious - how many of the 9 were old world, what type tarantulas were they, and how did your 'experience' go - were most the lucky 'dry' bites?

(I've never been bitten by a tarantula. Bitten by plenty of snake, but no tarantulas... knock-on-wood)

 

[Ms.X]

Webster definition #1 for venom = poisonous :?

In order to prevent the spread of further misinformation by the uninformed:
Yes, venom may contain "poison", but venom is injected. Poison is ingested or absorbed. And as you would say, let's not get into the aggressive vs. defensive debate here, that's been overdone. I do handle some of my collection in order to take photographs or perform maintenance, but generally the only time I handle is during rehousing.

 

[xhexdx]

Dear Mr. Denial:

Dear Ms. <edit>:

I took the liberty of running a search through this entire site (which has been in existence longer than your membership here) for 'Burmese Cobalt Blue'. It turns out, there are a whopping TEN POSTS where someone refers to them as such; 6 are from you, 1 is a quote from one of your posts, and three are other random users.

When there are over 26,000 members and over 1.4-million posts, yet only three of you are referring to them as 'Burmese Cobalt Blue', then I'm sorry, but you're flat-out wrong.

Here is the search, in case you'd like to see for yourself:

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/search.php?searchid=2085973

The following is an example of how to quote someone multiple times in ONE post, for future reference:

Dear Mr. Denial: Did not say they WILL cause death, just that they CAN. All old would species CAN cause extreme harm or in rare cases death.

If you see my quote below, never did I state they WILL cause death:

Yeah...how can you flat out say they can cause death and then request we don't get in to it here?

Your explanation is just as valid as saying a splinter CAN cause death (in rare cases, right?)

And as far as the 'don't get into it here' hint - it is because SOME are so obsessive in their denial that a tarantula from any place on the planet or time could EVER cause any death (or that all tarantula deaths are from some sort of infection - broken record alert!) as noted in the link provided...

Didn't you learn that using 'and' to begin a sentence is incorrect?

Maybe you posted it to begin with because you're the obsessive one?

just recommending that we just keep the 'off topic' stuff there and not here shall we? Oops, too late

If you wanted to keep it off topic, you never should have mentioned it. In your own words:

Oops, too late

Moving forward...

Webster definition #1 for venom = poisonous :?

Ms.X already addressed this. I'll add...without links as references or any other evidence of any sort, your babble is exactly that: Babble. I'll also add dictionary.com's definition of venom:

ven⋅om [ven-uhm]

–noun 1. the poisonous fluid that some animals, as certain snakes and spiders, secrete and introduce into the bodies of their victims by biting, stinging, etc.

Link: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/venom

Using this definition, spiders would be considered venomous.

See 'The Guide to Owning a Tarantula' by Jerry G Walls, picture on pg.19, which indicates "...dangerously aggressive..." (and based upon my experience owning three of them, this is confirmed - but perhaps that is too anecdotal for some, heh, heh):razz:

Would you mind completing your quote, please? Would you mind also using a source that we would consider valid? This book was copyrighted in 2003, and is a tad outdated (in my opinion.)

This is the where they are from, Burma, and this is the common name issued by the "Committee on Common Names of Arachnids of the American Arachnological Society". So, go pound sand if I use this name...

Again...reference?

I recognize neither the legitimacy of the ruling military government nor its authority to rename the country... it is Burma, and the OFFICIAL common name of the tarantula is Burmese Cobalt Blue. ;P

btw - the local dictatorship call it "Myanmar Naingngandaw" (brain disengagement alert!)

You should send Avicularia Man a PM; you two would get along wonderfully.

 

[BatGirl]

Thanks, Debby :clap:

26,000 members and over 1.4-million posts

Response is pretty much out of context - seems like you mean there's 1.4 mil posts that do not use the term burmese cobalt blue and only 3 of them besides mine that do... well yes, considering 99% + of these 1.4 mil are not even addressing this species, the comparison is irrelivant as is this rant. Let's send you out to do some homework, young man. How many of the 1.4 mil are even on the subject of this species? (Men, always doing things the hard way...)

(why the obsession on this namaing convention as well is beyond me - common name verses scientific name - signifies real maturity? or do we just attack everything one says if that person mentions the possibility of "death by tarantula bite", and I DON'T mean death by infection - more signs of obsession?)

Didn't you learn that using 'and' to begin a sentence is incorrect?

Literary critics! ...and they are a dime a dozen ;P

Extract: About being 'obsessive' over mentioning the occurrance that a tarantula's, hmmm, let's use the term "neurotoxic substance with digestive enzymes that may affect the human nervous system, causing dizziness, difficulty breathing, nausea, blurred vision and muscle rigidity, and kill tissue surrounding the bite" just to be more descriptive and avoid the more obscure dictionary quotes, may cause death - seems that all one has to do is just mention this in passing and the obsessive lurkers come out of the woodwork and attack the individual mentioning it, and about anything else that individual may say just to be nurotic about it. The denial that a tarantula 'bite' had or could ever caused a death (and the subsequent attacking the individual over the subject and everything else that individual may say) may be a symptom of a psychological processes where the fear of dying, from whatever source, is displaced by this combating of those fear processes using a crisis group think, present in the handling of so many crises, which are:
�� Incomplete survey of the denial group's objectives and alternative courses of action.
�� Not examining the risks of the preferred choice.
�� Poor/incomplete search for relevant information.
�� Selective bias in processing information at hand.
�� Not reappraising rejected alternatives.
�� Not developing contingency plans for the failure of actions agreed by the denial group.
And (literary alert! sentence starting with 'and') the common denominator is that the denial team handling their denial crisis:
�� Initially plays it down. There is no evidence that the death from a bite have ever been systematically proven, but in probably a far less structured way the best case answer to this would have been assumed, even if not actually expressed. At this stage the crisis handlers are merely interpreting the meagre information that they have - but they are doing it with the strong influence of denial of a potential trauma and often with the help of group think.
�� Ignores, or at least heavily discounts, any new incoming information that contradicts the optimistic view that they first formed. By now the team will be communicating their optimism to this all they can, even presenting alternative widespread theories before they have been substantiated – no true deaths except by a fluke of some infection.
�� Finally, when the wealth of evidence is overwhelming, the crisis group swings into line in one of three ways:
1. By underplaying the significance of the change of direction
2. Quietly changes (most common)
3. Grossly over-compensates (attack everything the individual says besides the death thing). It may not be a coincidence that over-compensation seems to take place most often when those concerned think they will not suffer for the over-compensation.

So, by casually mentioning in an internet thread that one does not handle an old world species because it can cause severe injury and/or death, and even simultaneously indicating that there could be an attack on this view that needs not be repeated in the thread - this makes this individual 'obsessive' ... and that the denial group who swoop in and attack this view and everything else this individual says are in no way even close to being obsessive - well, it appears that communicating to those with an obsessive denial syndrome may be fruitless, for someone more professional may be warranted...

 

[xhexdx]

Response is pretty much out of context - seems like you mean there's 1.4 mil posts that do not use the term burmese cobalt blue and only 3 of them besides mine that do... well yes, considering 99% + of these 1.4 mil are not even addressing this species, the comparison is irrelivant as is this rant. Let's send you out to do some homework, young man. How many of the 1.4 mil are even on the subject of this species? (Men, always doing things the hard way...)

Considering every post of yours that mentions this species is not in a thread that is specific to that species, I'd say it's relevant.

Would you like me to run a search for just 'Cobalt Blue' for comparison, since you obviously are not able to do so?

Even then, the search maxes out at 250 relevant posts, so it's not an accurate method of determining the actual percentage. Even if there were only 250 posts that had the words 'Cobalt Blue' in them, you're still looking at only 4% using the word 'Burmese' as well.

If you'd care to address the rest of my above post, I'd really appreciate it. The fact that you didn't only proves my point.

Focusing on the meaning of 'obsessive' instead of the subject at hand seems a bit...obsessive, doesn't it?

 

[BatGirl]

If you'd care to address the rest of my above post, I'd really appreciate it.

I'm sure you would... but I shall not feed into the gross over-compensation of obsessive denial syndrome. Seems like you proved my point, eh?

btw - not every post of mine mentions this species - more gross over-compensation distortions!

 

[xhexdx]

btw - not every post of mine mentions this species - more gross over-compensation distortions!

Oh boy...you ask me to do my homework, yet you neglect yours.

This is what I said:

Considering every post of yours that mentions this species is not in a thread that is specific to that species

 

[BatGirl]

Thanks for pointing that out, so let us actually address the response then

Considering every post of yours that mentions this species is not in a thread that is specific to that species

Mentioning a species in a thread not specific to that species is a rule?:worship:

The mentions were in threads specific to either:

a) threads on old world species, which brumese cobalt blue is an old world species (didn't realize any specific species was the purpose of the thread - OH, it wasn't!)

b) threads on not handling tarantulas, which is good advice when it comes to old world species, which again the brumese cobalt blue is an old world species (again, didn't realize any specific species was the purpose of this thread either... hey, what's going on here? Is this a rule or what!?!)

and on homework, indeed some of my posts on this species were on this species like:

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?p=1578548#post1578548

and

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?p=1578892#post1578892

...and, I seem to be falling again into feeding into the gross over-compensation of obsessive denial syndrome - sheesh, soooo crafty!

 

[Zoltan]

Hello BatGirl,

Just let me ask: what do you base your statement "old world tarantulas can cause death" on?

P.S. my question is genuine...

 

[BatGirl]

the infection spreads ;-)

Hello BatGirl,

Just let me ask: what do you base your statement "old world tarantulas can cause death" on?

Geeze, it's like a disease! Please tell me your question is genuine and this is not more of this obsessive denial syndrome... :wall:

 

[Roski]

p.s. My question is genuine...

Lol



.

 

[xhexdx]

Hello BatGirl,

Just let me ask: what do you base your statement "old world tarantulas can cause death" on?

P.S. my question is genuine...

Hey Zoltan,

Check here:

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=141183&page=13

Pages 13-15; I think that's where she is basing the statement you mention.

--Joe

 

[PrimalTaunt]

This is the where they are from, Burma, and this is the common name issued by the "Committee on Common Names of Arachnids of the American Arachnological Society". So, go pound sand if I use this name...

Good job providing the casual viewer with false info. I just looked that up and AAS/CNC lists the common name for H. lividum as "Cobalt Blue." No "Burmese" in there at all.

 

[<3exoticpets]

Interesting article

Even though it's slightly off topic, thought this was interesting and informative. While looking to see if T's can provide a lethal bite, I found an article on the effects of spider bites in dogs and humans- venom is much more potent in canines.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6TCS-480CH05-2&_user=10&_coverDate=03%2F15%2F2003&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1186721074&_rerunOrigin=google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=b90aba4be95a2c430c9906ae8e12c4ce

 

[BatGirl]

Thanks ! ! !

Good job providing the casual viewer with false info. I just looked that up and AAS/CNC lists the common name for H. lividum as "Cobalt Blue." No "Burmese" in there at all.

And after all the grief I've given PetCo over their improper 'official' common name for the Costa Rican Zebra that they call Veneuzan Tiger, I go and do a contraction for Burmese blue bird spider and Cobalt Blue tarantula, both of which are the two most common names for the Haplopelma (Melopoeus) Lividum... Thank you PrimalTaunt for your dilligence and assistance - I think? :razz:

Well, in my limited defense on this subject that same contraction was used on the cage I bought two of mine from, and is also found here: http://tcreptiles.webs.com/available.htm as: Burmese Cobalt Blue. <edit>... I guess in their defense, they probably just want to add where it was prevalent (unless we go back to grossly over-compensating about wether it is Burma or Myanmar, eh?).:wall:

 

[toxic667]

both of my Ts are very docile and if i need to remove anything/clean the tank, i just use my hands. I do handle them, but very seldomly. I use the plastic container to get my rosea out if I need to

 

[MrDeranged]

Beautiful and unique snowflake alert

Hi BatGirl,

Could you possibly quote or state your sources / personal experiences with any of the statements that you have made?

You can ingest any number of tarantula species with no ill effects if prepared properly. Please note, that by prepared properly, I am referring to removing the urticating hairs from new world species. Knowing a few people that have consumed them, I'm pretty sure they (as a whole) are not poisonous, merely venomous.

From the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary definition of venomous

2 : having a venom-producing gland and able to inflict a poisoned wound <venomous snakes>

Could you please direct me to any medical literature at all that lists a tarantula bite as a cause of death in a human? In the 10+ years that I have been running this site and active in the hobby, I have yet to see one.

Unfortunately, the most recent list of common names from the AAS that I can find is from 2003.

http://www.americanarachnology.org/acn5.pdf
&
http://atshq.org/articles/acn5.pdf

I couldn't seem to find mention of a "Burmese Cobalt Blue", however, on page 11, I did find:

cobalt blue tarantula Haplopelma lividum Smith ARANEAE: Theraphosidae

and on page 22, I found:

Haplopelma lividum Smith cobalt blue tarantula ARANEAE: Theraphosidae

btw, you might want to fix your entry for "Leela" on your profile if it's correctly a Burmese Cobalt Blue.

You may also want to find more respectable sources of information than Jerry Walls tarantula books and what Petco has on their cages.

Wrong information is still wrong no matter how forcefully you argue it.......

Scott

 

[BatGirl]

Thanks, legendary Joe

Check here:
http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=141183&page=13Pages 13-15

...and do the research ~ don't just go tearing into the tidbit examples I've posted like most have because of their obsessive denial syndromes!

Every time one gets nailed by any tarantula, and much much more so when nailed by old world tarantulas, you roll the dice on your health. The main point I was trying to make on 'handling tarantulas' before all these rants got cranked-up, is that these venomous/poisonous/neurotoxic/whatever creatures should be handled with the respect due them. The more dangerous, agressive, etc. ones like from the old world deserve a lot more respect - like the roll of their dice is just not worth the risk. And (btw - conjunctions starting a sentence to break up an otherwise run-on long sentence is literately acceptable, but discouraged...) on that other thread, the main point was that children, or rather parents, should not be told these old world species are just fine for their little suzie to play around with and go around brazenly boasting nobody has ever died from their bite - just because one is without specific concrete indisputable knowledge confirmed by all one's buddies in denial of a death. The literature suggests the old world species can be deadly, even if it is rare, and these various sources should be enough for the wise to understand the nature of the risk. :\

 

[BatGirl]

and spreads...

Could you possibly quote or state your sources / personal experiences with any of the statements that you have made?

Just ANY statement? already done... I think several times now ;-)

You can ingest any number of tarantula species with no ill effects if prepared properly. Please note, that by prepared properly, I am referring to removing the urticating hairs from new world species. Knowing a few people that have consumed them, I'm pretty sure they (as a whole) are not poisonous, merely venomous. From the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary definition of venomous 2 : having a venom-producing gland and able to inflict a poisoned wound <venomous snakes>

some just get hung up on obscure dictionary definitions... semantics! :-D

Could you please direct me to any medical literature at all that lists a tarantula bite as a cause of death in a human? In the 10+ years that I have been running this site and active in the hobby, I have yet to see one.

Can you not do some research like I did (see the various items I had posted on these boards - I had no difficulty finding them...)?

Unfortunately, the most recent list of common names from the AAS that I can find is from 2003<inserted: this is the latest...>.

http://www.americanarachnology.org/acn5.pdf
&
http://atshq.org/articles/acn5.pdf

I couldn't seem to find mention of a "Burmese Cobalt Blue", however, on page 11, I did find:

cobalt blue tarantula Haplopelma lividum Smith ARANEAE: Theraphosidae

and on page 22, I found:

Haplopelma lividum Smith cobalt blue tarantula ARANEAE: Theraphosidae

Try contracting "Burmese" Blue Bird Spider and "Cobalt Blue" Tarantula, both are the most common names in use for this species, like I apparently did and others have as well... this is so funny :-\

btw, you might want to fix your entry for "Leela" on your profile if it's correctly a Burmese Cobalt Blue.

done! (...and thanks for the tip - I think she KNEW it was left off! I'd gotten Max and CFB Goblin correct, just messed it up with her info)

You may also want to find more respectable sources of information than Jerry Walls tarantula books

and what "The Tarantula Keepers Guide" indicates, and what quite a lot of literature both published and anecdotal say.

and what Petco has on their cages.Wrong information is still wrong no matter how forcefully you argue it....... Scott

...and let's not forget what "The Pet Company" had on their cages, etc. - how dare these minions add the country of origin to the common name - sacrilege!!!

...hey this post number is also my badge number - cool