Why do vets willingly ear crop dogs?

[pitbulllady]

Back to the original topic. Re: the 6 AKC Great Dumbs. I accompanied my former mother in law who got one of them to the ear cropping establishment. It was a registered veterinarian. In the back room, which dog owners and their friends were free to wandering through, there were about 8 tables with people whacking away at ears on an assembly line basis. Scissors were the main weapon of choice, and soldering irons for cauterizing. There was nothing remotely resembling sterility. The lighting in the room was very poor. As we waited for her dog to come out from under the anesthesia I wandered the place. It was legit. The ear cropping version of a puppy mill. It was one of the most popular and cheap places to get ear cropping done in the entire Los Angeles area. I wasn't impressed.

Ever been to spay/neuter clinic, or one of the popular mobile versions that roam large metropolitan areas? Same thing, just different body parts. Instead of cutting off parts of ears, they snip out testicles and remove overies and uteri, which of course involves abdominal surgery. Animals are lined up like on an assembly line, knocked out, cut open, glued shut, and laid out like cordwood to recover from anesthesia. I assisted at a cat s/n clinic once, and the people working there didn't wear surgical gloves or wash/disinfect their hands between surgeries. There was no time. As soon as one cat was removed to wake up, another was put on the table in its place, and the same hands bloody from the prior surgery would open up the next cat. There's no way in hell I'd ever put one of MY animals through that, no matter how "cost effective" it is!

Here in the South, very few dogs and even far-fewer cats that wind up in shelters are purebred anythings, and I've volunteered in two shelters. By far, most of the dogs are of such mixed ancestry that even someone well-educated in dogs and dog breeds cannot look at one and distinguish the overt traits of any one or two distinct breeds. These dogs are NOT THE PRODUCT OF DOG BREEDERS; they are the product of dogs simply being allowed to run loose, 24/7, to mate, fight, hunt and do what they do without any human intervention, because their owners could care less. Yes, they have owners, in the loosest sense of the word. They have a place to go and hang out and someone who puts out food for them, maybe even has a dog house in the back yard, who pets them once in awhile and perhaps even has given them a name, but they receive no veterinary care, no vaccines(even though it is illegal not to vaccinate against rabies) and of course they are allowed to reproduce. When the resulting puppies get too big and become too much aggravation, they are carried off to the pound. Going after legitimate dog breeders and purebred dogs will do absolutely NOTHING to prevent or curb that. When a purebred DID show up, it either was a genuine case of someone's dog having gotten loose and being picked up by animal control, or a dog with a behavioral issue that had made living with it difficult. To be honest, most of the behavioral issues had started out as normal dog behaviors, but had been allowed to escalate, and had they been "nipped in the bud" in time, would have never gotten to that point, but the typical dog owner is not savvy enough to be able to pick up on the cues and quite honestly expects a dog to act like a human being from the start. It's easy to blame breeders again, for not "educating" puppy buyers, but I know from experience in having bred Catahoula Leopard Dogs and Akita Inus, two of the most difficult breeds for the average pet owner to live with due to their normal behaivors, that people often ignore you when you try to explain to them what to expect and how to handle it. The numbers of "purebred" dogs and cats in shelters is horribly, horribly overinflated by the AR crowds; just pick a pure breed you're very familiar with and go to Petfinder.org and type it in the search box, and you'll see what I mean. OR go to any online rescue site, or Craigslist. You will see dogs that do NOT, in any way, shape or form, resemble the breed in question, labeled as such. Supposedly it makes these dogs more adoptable, but it also misleads people into thinking that most of the dogs in shelters are purebreds and are the products of deliberate breeding practices, thus denigrating legitimate dog breeders and painting them all with the same ugly brush. That's no mistake, folks. The AR groups like HSUS and PETA have made one of their goals to eliminate ALL breeding and ownership of animals, period. They are doing this by using emotional rhetoric to convince the public that breeding purebred animals is cruel and unnecessary and causes horrible suffering and that the only ethical way to obtain an animal is to get a mutt from a shelter or rescue. They are succeeding at accomplishing this, and through restrictions on dog breeding, will eventually whittle the population of purebred animals to nil, while spaying and neutering the mutts, and THEN what? Now, if you want to live in a world with no pets, that's you. It's clear that most of you here already have fallen for this, just as many of you believe that owning any animal YOU would not personally want is cruel and/or dangerous. You can go on about you don't support HSUS or PETA or ASPCA or any of the other AR groups all you want, but the truth is, if you believe them and their propaganda, and agree with at least part of what they believe, you DO support them and you ARE AR! You are a willing recipient of their message and beliefs, a message coming from people who do not own animals of any kind and have no hands-on, real-world experience with them, for the most part, and yet you'll choose to believe them over people with decades of animal experience in many different situations. It's almost laughable when some of you say, "I'm not an Animal Rights activist! I don't support PETA or HSUS", when you are regurgitating their rhetoric, especially about how horrible all dog breeders and purebred dogs are. You are falling for what the AR's WANT you to fall for, and then you'll be B&M'ing when they succeed in getting some ban or restriction on YOUR animals passed where you lived, like you didn't see it coming.

pitbulllady

 

[Niffarious]

WHOA WHOA WHOA Lets hold up just a cotton picking minute.

I've had pugs since I was five. Three of them were pets and we had a litter of nine (one stillborn, and we kept one of them)

Never had a single issue except for an eye that popped out in a tiff between mother and daughter. We did our research in breeders and made sure we weren't getting some inbred prone to health issues. Even when we were looking for a stud we picked one with a good record.

The breed itself is not the problem...it's the people indiscriminately breeding just to make puppies to sell.

I want to be clear about what I meant, and to respectfully disagree. I do think that they are normally well tempered, delightful little dogs. But the breed IS a disaster, and that people continue to breed them is, to me, the definition of what is wrong with people breeding for aesthetics. They have so many health problems PURELY because of the shape people want them to be. In the summer when I take my dogs to the park, and dogs are frolicking and then walking home with owners I ALWAYS see people having to carry their pugs who are now so worked up they can't breathe. Just from going outside to play. Healthy pugs are are the exception, and not the rule - and I can't believe people would support them being bred in their current shape/condition with that in mind.
If people started trying to make the breed healthy (change their shape so they can actually be a dog)I might start to reconsider. That people breed dogs who will likely have issues for life just so they have a squished face and big eyes boggles my mind. Pugs a few hundred years ago at least had a nose they could breathe out of.

 

[Moonfall]

I have a friend with one of the rare "healthy" pugs. It's a beautiful dog, rarely snorts and can run and play with the big boys no problem.

I myself have a chi who when I got him was a yappy little turd. Now he's mostly trained out of it, thank god, and barks only when he feels he is protecting me. He has a deeper bark than most also but it is very loud.

I rescued him. He was found as a stray and taken to a shelter, and I saw him and brought him home. I was looking for a girl and ended up with a boy- love him to death anyway. I saw a ton of purebreds there though. Pits and other bully breeds especially, beautiful dogs in every color imaginable, and I saw other purebred chis as well. Shelters do have them sometimes.

 

[VickyChaiTea]

UNPOPULAR OPINION TIME WEEEEEE!

This is gonna be a loooong post, so bear with me! First:

Why are little boys still circumcised and that is not considered bad to some? Why are little girls circumcised in some countries but that is considered barbaric?

It's all about social acceptance as a society. What seems wrong to one may not seem wrong to another. I personally don't willingly chop any part of my children or pets off but hey to each their own!

I WILL address female circumcision because you need to do some serious learning. It is barbaric, a lifelong torture, genital mutilation, and completely inhumane. It is a vile act done by vile people. It's done as a part of "raising a woman properly" to ensure she does not have premarital sex. Because A: she fears sex will reopening her vagina which is some of the worst pain imaginable and B: it reduces her libido. Women die left and right because of infection and complications. But they are convinced it actually raises their status in society, so they should want it. That is the epitome of the most horrific form of sexism I can imagine. It's not, under any circumstance "to each their own". There are certainly grey areas in morality but this... this is not one of them. And if you ever think for a single second that it's ok... you need to do some serious thinking alone in the corner.

"According to Amnesty, in certain societies women who have not had the procedure are regarded as too unclean to handle food and water, and there is a belief that a woman's genitals might continue to grow without FGM, until they dangle between her legs. Some groups see the clitoris as dangerous, capable of killing a man if his penis touches it, or a baby if the head comes into contact with it during birth, though Amnesty cautions that ideas about the power of the clitoris can be found elsewhere.[28] Gynaecologists in England and the United States would remove it during the 19th century to "cure" insanity, masturbation, and nymphomania."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_genital_mutilation

So, back to ear cropping and tail docking. I see this logic a lot, actually. "I have caused a problem voluntarily. (breeding dogs with long floppy ears that get infected and long thin tails that break) Instead of fixing this new problem I shall treat the symptom (cropping/docking) and justify it even though it's barbaric. Under no circumstances will I fix the actual problem I have created." Dogs are bred with ears so long and floppy they're prone to ear infections... dogs with long delicate tails covered with short hair that are prone to breaking... how about we take initiative to breed those traits OUT of them? Instead of focusing on what looks best we should draw a line and say this is not ok because it puts the dog in danger when it does not need to be.

...about breeders purposely creating dogs with deformities (what?? a true breeder is doing their damndest to better the breed they love).

If this was true to any degree... why do German Shepherds have luxating patellas, hip dysplasia, Von Willebrands Disease, cataracts, and so much more? Why are award winning King Charles Cavalier Spaniels seizing almost every day because their skulls are deformed and squeezing their brain? Not backyard breeder dogs but AKC and Westminster show dogs. I'm sorry but actually testing for any and all genetic disorders or things that can be passed on is something done downright rarely, in the grand scheme of things. Otherwise we simply would not have these problems so often.

"Terriers had tails docked so handlers had to grab the tail up close to the body to extract the dog from a hole."
"Docking sporting breeds' tails minimized risk of the animal getting hung up in brambles and briars."
"The cropped breeds were originally cropped for a reason, Danes it was to prevent the ears from being shredded by the animals they were bred to hunt, pits and boxers to keep the ears from being destroyed while fighting/hunting, dobes to keep the ears from being grabbed by an attacker (they were bred to be personal protection dogs)."

How about we stop putting these dogs in these dangerous, unnecessary, and inhumane situations? That and as previously stated stop breeding floppy fluffy ears that get stuck in briars and cause ear infections... I mean really. A breeds ears used to be docked because it was for fighting. Ok, we don't fight the dogs now (or at least I hope we don't) so... tell me again why someone has their APBT ears docked? Or their stay at home terriers tail docked? Even a working terrier... do people seriously think it's ok to pull a dog out of a hole by it's tail? How about we stop using dogs for hunting all together if the prevalence of them getting injured is so high? Oh, that's right, because then we wouldn't have the luxury of casually hunting when there's a grocery store down the road. (if anyone wants to debate hunting we can do that through PM or something I don't want to get off topic TOO much here)

Neutering dogs is so different from cropping it's unbelievable. Cropping is done for aesthetics, or so you can put the dog in a dangerous situation there is no need for to please you and your hobby. Neutering is done to help stop the gross overpopulation of dogs in the US It is part of many things needed to help in overpopulation. We cannot make progress in reducing dogs numbers unless we neuter and spay them in certain numbers.

Now that we have established the gross lack of necessity for these practices we can bring up the question... who are we to take away a dogs right to it's own body so we can alter it for our own pleasure? Not out of necessity, as neutering or surgery, but for our own wants. A dog cannot consent to aesthetic surgery. Let that sink in for a second. This is an animal that has no concept of consenting to surgery and you are going to make that decision to have it done. Who are you to say what happens to it's body? What gives you that authority? This is an honest question, please think about and answer it. Is it because you're smarter? Well then by that logic we can extend this to humans. If someone is not as smart as you, or cannot comprehend consent you can do whatever you want with them because you're smarter. Some will stop there and say no! We can't extend that logic to humans! Why? What makes humans so special? That's a completely self centered way of thinking, as far as I can tell.

I understand why people keep bringing up PETA or animal rights activist groups. If you compare people who are against cropping/docking to PETA or what the public perceives animal rights activist groups to be (not what they actually are) you can make them out to be hysterical, over-reacting, irrational, loopy lala people. When in actuality they're not, and as far as I know no one here including myself is a member of PETA so can we stop bringing them up?

 

[Shell]

If this was true to any degree... why do German Shepherds have luxating patellas, hip dysplasia, Von Willebrands Disease, cataracts, and so much more? Why are award winning King Charles Cavalier Spaniels seizing almost every day because their skulls are deformed and squeezing their brain? Not backyard breeder dogs but AKC and Westminster show dogs. I'm sorry but actually testing for any and all genetic disorders or things that can be passed on is something done downright rarely, in the grand scheme of things. Otherwise we simply would not have these problems so often.

I didn't say ALL breeders are working to get rid of these, I said many good, reputable breeders. I have (and still am) worked very closely with a # of good reputable breeders, and YES they ARE testing for everything they can before breeding their stock. They are well aware these problems exist. GSDs have been absolutely destroyed confirmation/health wise by unethical breeding, but there are some breeders who are trying to "fix" that. Yes there are unethical show breeders, yes, not every breeder is trying but there are those that are trying. To say "I'm sorry but actually testing for any and all genetic disorders or things that can be passed on is something done downright rarely" isn't completely accurate. I suppose if you're saying among every single person breeding dogs, then yes it's rare; but there are still quite a few true, ethical breeders in almost every breed, (there are a few breeds, like pugs, where it's arguable IMO) that are in fact spending thousands to health test their breeding stock for everything they can.

I can give you a good sized list of Doberman breeders alone who are doing so (again using Dobermans as that is the breed I am currently very active with). I'm a vet tech (and if it weren't for confidentiality issues, could give you a list of various breeders that I personally know, doing extensive health testing on their breeding stock), and I have many years of dog experience, both in the show world, and the breeding world, so I'm actually speaking from hands on/first hand experience. You can disagree with me, but the fact is that there are breeders trying their best to fix the issues that have been bred into these breeds. No, they are not the majority, but they do exist, and they are the only ones I will support when I buy a purebred dog. They are the only ones that I consider to be "true" breeders. I didn't say that every show breeder is ethical, because they certainly aren't. I was solely talking about ethical breeders, and among them, yes they are testing for everything they can. Yes, they are fewer and farther between but that's what I was talking about in regards to good breeders. Unfortunately for every really good breeder there are 10 not so great (or down right awful) ones, and I suppose I should have made myself more clear by exactly what I meant when I say "reputable", I don't consider just any AKC/show breeder to be reputable, they have to be actively trying to better the breed to get that respect from me. They do exist, but unfortunately they get overshadowed by the crap breeders.

Anyway, not trying to argue with you, just to make myself more clear about what I meant by a "good" or "reputable" breeder.

Btw, sorry if this post isn't totally clear/kinda jumbled. I've got an overactive child running around at the moment, and was trying to reply quickly...that usually means my thoughts don't come out quite the way I want them to.

 

[The Snark]

One thing I feel compelled to point out. Blanket statements are unbecoming of thinking caring animal keepers as we have on AB. PETA IS EVIL! Pugs are whatever. Come on, people. We are bigger than that.

 

[Formerphobe]

good reputable breeders, and YES they ARE testing for everything they can before breeding their stock. They are well aware these problem exist.

I've not kept up with the past few pages of this thread... however,
Just like people, dogs will have medical issues whether they be purebred or Heinz 57.
The primary problem with dogs, any dog, is people.
The people promoting poor breeding are the purchasers, Joe Citizen impulse buyers who saw a dog or picture and "W-a-n-t-s". And wants it N-o-w. Then finds out s/he didn't do the proper research... yadda, yadda, yadda...

There ARE responsible breeders out there, though they are few and far between in the grand scheme of puppy mills, back yard breeders, and 'oops my dog got out'.
I know breeders who do:
OFA - hip, elbow, thyroid, etc
Penn Hip
BAER testing
Eye testing
The whole gamut before they breed their stock. They are trying to improve their chosen breeds and using the latest technology to do so.

Aside from puppy mills, the Joe Citizen Back Yard Breeder is the worst:
"My dog has papers and I'm gonna make my money back on him/her..."
"My friend has [name any breed] and our friends want puppies..."
"We want the kids to experience..."

I know so many responsible breeders who practice Whelping box to the Grave philosophy. They will take any of their dogs, pet quality or otherwise, back at any time during that dog's life, regardless of reason.
When I was still in [Breed Specific] rescue, I acquired a 5 year old male as a foster that we elected to keep. When he developed a medical issue, I was able to track down his breeder with what minimal info I had been given. When I contacted her, she threw a royal fit. I mean, whomping, earth moving, cow-sized wooly worm fit. Seems the owners who had relinquished the dog to rescue had signed a "Return" contract with her at time of purchase (as well as a neuter agreement). He was supposed to be returned to the breeder if, for any reason, they could no longer keep him at any point in his life. She was preparing to fly from several states away to take him from me. >>GASP!<< "Um, no... I've had him for > a year, I'm an LVT and have access to all kinds of specialists; the dog will be taken care of." AFTER she checked out my references (Yep, really), she allowed me to keep him. Turns out, he is the only one of his lineage to have this particular problem. She faxed me medical records on his mother, grandfather, a couple siblings, etc. And asked if she could forward my info to owner's of his other siblings, nieces, nephews, etc. Nine years later, the breeder and I still stay in touch. She continues to breed sound stock and produces a lot of champions. Pet quality pups are sold as just that, and with a spay/neuter contract. My dog has had NONE of the problems normally associated with this particular breed, because the breeder worked hard to avoid them. The 'breed related' problems are perpetuated by other factions. But, that is another thread.

 

[Shell]

I've not kept up with the past few pages of this thread... however,
Just like people, dogs will have medical issues whether they be purebred or Heinz 57.
The primary problem with dogs, any dog, is people.
The people promoting poor breeding are the purchasers, Joe Citizen impulse buyers who saw a dog or picture and "W-a-n-t-s". And wants it N-o-w. Then finds out s/he didn't do the proper research... yadda, yadda, yadda...

There ARE responsible breeders out there, though they are few and far between in the grand scheme of puppy mills, back yard breeders, and 'oops my dog got out'.
I know breeders who do:
OFA - hip, elbow, thyroid, etc
Penn Hip
BAER testing
Eye testing
The whole gamut before they breed their stock. They are trying to improve their chosen breeds and using the latest technology to do so.

Aside from puppy mills, the Joe Citizen Back Yard Breeder is the worst:
"My dog has papers and I'm gonna make my money back on him/her..."
"My friend has [name any breed] and our friends want puppies..."
"We want the kids to experience..."

I know so many responsible breeders who practice Whelping box to the Grave philosophy. They will take any of their dogs, pet quality or otherwise, back at any time during that dog's life, regardless of reason.
When I was still in [Breed Specific] rescue, I acquired a 5 year old male as a foster that we elected to keep. When he developed a medical issue, I was able to track down his breeder with what minimal info I had been given. When I contacted her, she threw a royal fit. I mean, whomping, earth moving, cow-sized wooly worm fit. Seems the owners who had relinquished the dog to rescue had signed a "Return" contract with her at time of purchase (as well as a neuter agreement). He was supposed to be returned to the breeder if, for any reason, they could no longer keep him at any point in his life. She was preparing to fly from several states away to take him from me. >>GASP!<< "Um, no... I've had him for > a year, I'm an LVT and have access to all kinds of specialists; the dog will be taken care of." AFTER she checked out my references (Yep, really), she allowed me to keep him. Turns out, he is the only one of his lineage to have this particular problem. She faxed me medical records on his mother, grandfather, a couple siblings, etc. And asked if she could forward my info to owner's of his other siblings, nieces, nephews, etc. Nine years later, the breeder and I still stay in touch. She continues to breed sound stock and produces a lot of champions. Pet quality pups are sold as just that, and with a spay/neuter contract. My dog has had NONE of the problems normally associated with this particular breed, because the breeder worked hard to avoid them. The 'breed related' problems are perpetuated by other factions. But, that is another thread.

I absolutely can't like or thank this enough. You just said everything going on in my head. In my case the Dobe breeders I know are also doing annual holter/echo ests, vWD DNA testing (the ELISA test just doesn't cut it when it comes to vWD, but why am I telling you this, you know this lol), and the list goes on and on. I know you were just covering a few of the tests that the truly good breeders are doing, but felt like adding a couple.

 

[The Snark]

I would point out a minor little problem with all this rationalizing. It's sadly extremely narcissist. That is, it applies to various parts of the first world while the trouble, the puppy mills, back yard breeders et al are world wide. To put it succinctly, the vast majority of bred and sold animals are purely for profit.
So this morning I made a list of the testing various people have mentioned here and I toddled on over to the two largest animal hospitals in the second largest city in this country. Only ~10% of the tests were even known to the vets and staff. Now Thailand is pretty advanced in the third world.
So how much of reputable proper breeding intending to produce healthy generations of animals is really going on, taking into consideration the entire world's animal population? 5%? 10%? I'd be more inclined to guess <1%.
Okay. Back to your ivory towers.

 

[Gilberator]

If people supported ethical, proper breeders there would be fewer dogs in the shelters in the first place. I said earlier in this thread that every single person I know who has adopted a shelter dog (all mutts) has a dog with health and behaviour problems. This is not an exaggeration.

I dont doubt this is true, but my mom adopted 4-5 rottweilers from shelters and all were long lived and no behavior problems were seen really. They were all very good dogs. Not trying to contradict, just putting my 0.02 cents in.

 

[Anonymity82]

I dont doubt this is true, but my mom adopted 4-5 rottweilers from shelters and all were long lived and no behavior problems were seen really. They were all very good dogs. Not trying to contradict, just putting my 0.02 cents in.

He means mutts have more health and behavior problems. I'd like to see some factual statistics to this not just anecdotal reports.

---------- Post added 02-18-2013 at 10:56 AM ----------

If people supported ethical, proper breeders there would be fewer dogs in the shelters in the first place.

Or people could just adopt shelter dogs instead of bothering with breeders at all. Breeders don't make money, they stop breeding, less dogs make it to the shelter.

What really pisses me off though are people who get dogs when they start a new relationship, the women get pregnant, they give up the dog because they don't want to have the dog and a baby. Too much work. It's like WTH were you thinking when you got the dog in the first place?

People need to realize that dogs aren't just commodities and not only to be used for entertainment when they're bored. They're living creatures with obvious thoughts and emotions. Their flaws are almost always our own fault. It makes me sick to my stomach that so many happy, healthy, friendly, dogs and cats are being put to sleep because someone doesn't think they're cute enough, or they're too lazy to fix their behavioral problems. Or they didn't put any thought into buying the thing in the first place because SOMEONE JUST HAD TO HAVE A {ENTER BREED HERE}. 6 months later unplanned events happen, as they always do and the dog suffers. I say stop breeding all together except for working dogs. Adopt, adopt, adopt. Have some patience as well. If you want a certain breed look around for awhile until one pops up. Beware of craigslist adoptions too as many of these are just backyard breeders.

 

[Niffarious]

He means mutts have more health and behavior problems. I'd like to see some factual statistics to this not just anecdotal reports.

*she

And I mean that in my personal experience this has been the case, and I explained the reasons for it. Unhealthy parents with behavioural problems bred by irresponsible people make puppies with the same regardless of breed. This will vary with geography and breeds popular in the area. Where I live, the most common and overbred dogs are pit bulls. Most shelter dogs are pit and pit mixes. Most of these dogs suffer from common pit health issues (severe allergies) and behavioural problems (severe dog aggression).

Or people could just adopt shelter dogs instead of bothering with breeders at all. Breeders don't make money, they stop breeding, less dogs make it to the shelter.

Mills and backyard 'breeders' are the ones filling up shelters. Do not confuse them with people breeding for love of the breed.

On top of that, then we have nothing but poorly bred animals to choose from, thereby giving the jerks filling the shelters a get out of jail free card. We've discussed this in the thread several times: people who breed for love and health of the are not doing it for profit, and if people only supported those people producing healthy animals there would be far fewer shelter dogs. And in my experience, shelter dogs are often a mess. I support my shelters with donations of food and beds etc, but it's not where I get my animals from. Rescuing is great - one of my whippets is actually a rescue (private adoption) but I choose to not take on animals that could have significant health or behaviour problems. That's not a form of stress I want/need or feel prepared to deal with when I don't have to. Those people that do are awesome, but I still want to have that choice. How would you feel if the only spiders you were able to get were all the pet store species abandoned/neglected by importers and poorly informed buyers? You probably want the choice to have more available to you than that - like healthy stock from reputable breeders?

The bottom line, IMO, is pretty sad though. MOST people view dogs as a commodity/property. Most people will do anything to amuse themselves or make extra money. Most people resent being told what to do with their things, and I doubt most countries will have any stricter regulations. In the end, I will continue to support ethical breeders doing the right thing when I choose my dogs. I will also continue to support with donations (again, material items and not cash unless I know it's going to the care of dogs and staff salary, not a CEO sitting on his ass) the shelters who look after the animals cast off.

 

[Anonymity82]

You cannot compare spiders to dogs!

Either way you look at it adopting from the shelters instead of breeders will decrease the number of dogs in the shelter.

I'm not concerned with the bad breeders and any justice they deserve. I'm more concerned with the dogs that need TLC now because of these people. Let them not get in trouble but let's stop their income.

I'm not a fan of the "behavioral problem" argument either. Yes, some dogs have certain unfavorable traits that can be a serious problem if not nipped in the bud during those first weeks, I think 4-14, and that's our faults for not addressing these problems at this young age. Yes, some dogs are just going to be terrors regardless of training but I do feel that most can be corrected if we don't give up on the dog.

As I've said, I have two mutts both of whom are both healthy. Well, one is 17-19 so he's not that healthy anymore but he was fine up until the past couple of years. He beat a bout of cancer last year too. Most pure breed dogs wont even see 16 let alone beat cancer at that age. I know some will though so don't bite my head off .

My point is that I'd like to see some factual studies that prove that mutts are more likely to get sick or have bred in illnesses before I go telling people they shouldn't adopt mutts.

We can go down the list of pure dog breeds and the illnesses that often accompany them, even if they're from good breeders but I have neither the time nor patience

At least we can both agree on the bottom line.