Why do vets willingly ear crop dogs?

[Shell]

+1 to everything Formerphobe said.

I own a Doberman, he is both cropped and docked. I am also a licensed vet tech. I brought my dog home the day after the breeder took the litter to have their ears done, they never bothered him, he was in no pain.

The cropped breeds were originally cropped for a reason, Danes it was to prevent the ears from being shredded by the animals they were bred to hunt, pits and boxers to keep the ears from being destroyed while fighting/hunting, dobes to keep the ears from being grabbed by an attacker (they were bred to be personal protection dogs). This has become the breed standard for these breeds because it did have a purpose when the breeds were created. Most reputable breeders will not sell uncropped puppies because it is almost impossible to rehome an uncropped Dobe (for example) if the buyer returns the dog to the breeder for whatever reason. The breed is what it is, and most people who love the breed want what the breed standard is. For show standards it is also the "accepted" standard. You can show a natural dog sure, but there is debate over whether or not being natural works against them or not.

I am glad my boy is cropped and docked, I wanted a Doberman, and not to look tough (he is in training to be a therapy dog for my 2 autistic kids), but because that is how the Doberman was created to look. If I wanted a black and rust dog with floppy ears, and long tail I would have bought a black and tan coonhound.

I can tell you from both veterinary experience, and Doberman experience (my grandfather bred and showed them for years), that cropping is done humanely, with anesthetic, and aside from being a little itchy while healing does not bother the puppies in the least. I have yet to see a freshly cropped puppy show any signs of pain, they are acting like crazy, playful puppies within hours of the anesthetic.

You don't have to like it, but if you don't just don't buy a cropped breed. Do not start spouting your PETA crap when you have no real understanding of why it's done, or how it's done. I am a tech because I love animals, not because I want to hurt them. If it was really as cruel and painful as people seem to want to believe I wouldn't have bought a cropped breed.

I should also add that ear cropping should only be done by an experience ear cropping vet. A breeder, or vet with no experience should not do it. It is an art form, and very easy to make them look awful if not done right. A reputable cropping vet will also do it properly so that is does not cause the puppy any pain.

Cropped ears also greatly minimize chance of ear infection, aural hematoma etc. My last dog who suffered chronic, awful ear infections, and more than one hematoma likely would have been very grateful to have been a cropped breed. No matter what my boss and I did for him, his ears (natural eared breed) always caused him pain. Had he been a cropped breed I can guarantee he wouldn't have gone through the hell he did with his ears. I have yet to ever see a cropped dog with an aural hematoma, and very minimal ear infections (and usually very mild in the odd times that they do occur).

 

[rob0t]

Is that sarcasm, or are you serious?

I'm saying its the same thing as in they are both body modification for cultural or religious reasons. You guys are missing the point completely.

 

[Galapoheros]

We can't forget that vets are running a biz, you want it done, they make $, everybody is diff of course.

 

[Formerphobe]

We can't forget that vets are running a biz, you want it done, they make $, everybody is diff of course.

I've worked for practices that cropped ears, and for some that didn't. Those who didn't do the surgery, just didn't. We have a fair number of breeders in the area with traditionally cropped breeds. Our veterinarians don't crop ears, money maker or not.

 

[Shell]

I've worked for practices that cropped ears, and for some that didn't. Those who didn't do the surgery, just didn't. We have a fair number of breeders in the area with traditionally cropped breeds. Our veterinarians don't crop ears, money maker or not.

Ditto. It is not about money. The vet who my breeder uses is the very best cropping vet in the province, he doesn't charge much at all for cropping considering the anesthetic and other materials that he uses. I have worked for practices who don't do cropping, and vets who do, it's really not about money, and the ones who do don't typically charge a ton for it. There are many other procedures that cost much more.

 

[advan]

Pitbulls frequently get ear cropped to make them look tough, same with dobermans and Great Danes.

Tough? I'm sorry but there is no way Scooby-Doo will ever look tough.

 

[The Snark]

Let's get real and simplify the issue. First and foremost, the reason is $$$$. Cropping is a multi-million dollar industry. Second, it is fashionable to the degree that various show standards require cropping. Third is the animals health considerations.

 

[rob0t]

I wouldn't say the main reason is money. After all the people that get their dogs ears cropped are the ones paying. The reason money is made is because of reasons two and three.

 

[Moonfall]

As I mentioned elsewhere in this thread, I have a chi. These are not dogs who are cropped. However, their ears do stand up by themselves. I would not want one with floppy ears (they are incorrect and related to having weak cartilage) because they aren't meant to.

I also wouldn't want to risk having ear trouble with a doberman, and, being honest...they look lovely with the pointed ears.

 

[bigjej]

Over the last almost 45 years working in animal hospitals and with working dogs?, um, no. Though it was old school to promote removal for that reason. I see dewclaws broken on equal instance with primary toenails. As far as broken toes, nearly always one of the primary toes, especially in sighthounds.

---------- Post added 02-14-2013 at 06:47 PM ----------


At least that is the original intention... Ask my friend's son and the millions of other botched male circumcisions about 'just some skin'.

just an aside since you brought it up ( not weighing in on the original question, though must say I did think the same as OP until I saw some very informative posts regarding the reason behind crops ) but do you have a s source for that last remark?

---------- Post added 02-14-2013 at 11:26 PM ----------

So the clitoris is not skin? It's basically the same thing. Just one is socially acceptable in our culture. Right or wrong, I'm not to judge but you can't say one I just cutting off skin. That's what they both are! If you grew up in a community with female circumcision as the social norm you wouldn't have a problem with it either.

Actually, anatomically the clitoris is equivelant to the glans and the labia are equivelant to the scrotum - they have the same embryological origin and retain almost the same innervation and blood supply. In societies where female circumcision is practiced, many people DO object to it. But that has nothing to do with what the original post is about. back to the discussion.

 

[Formerphobe]

just an aside since you brought it up ( not weighing in on the original question, though must say I did think the same as OP until I saw some very informative posts regarding the reason behind crops ) but do you have a s source for that last remark?

just an aside since you brought it up ( not weighing in on the original question, though must say I did think the same as OP until I saw some very informative posts regarding the reason behind crops ) but do you have a s source for that last remark?

---------- Post added 02-14-2013 at 11:26 PM ----------



The comment was made, "Boy circumcision is about taking away some skin". The intent of human male circumcision is to remove a little bit of skin. In surgeries that don't go quite as planned, it becomes a more significant issue that 'just a little skin'.
Worst case scenario:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/reimer/
The whole gamut:
http://www.circumstitions.com/Complic.html

 

[Galapoheros]

Let's get real and simplify the issue. First and foremost, the reason is $$$$. Cropping is a multi-million dollar industry. Second, it is fashionable to the degree that various show standards require cropping. Third is the animals health considerations.

Show me da moanAAAAy!

 

[Yehecatl Quipol]

You can't compare boy circumcision and girl circumcision. Boy circumcision is about taking away some skin. Girl circumcision is about taking away clitoris and lips. It's like taking your whole glans away.

They're similar but not the same however that is wholly irrelevant as the argumentation against both remains the same, that non-consensual and forced mutilation is wrong which is what ear cropping, tail cropping and other such nonsense is, canine mutilation for the pathetic emotional benefit of the human.

Aesthetics are just that important, <edit> animals.

 

[Niffarious]

They're similar but not the same however that is wholly irrelevant as the argumentation against both remains the same, that non-consensual and forced mutilation is wrong which is what ear cropping, tail cropping and other such nonsense is, canine mutilation for the pathetic emotional benefit of the human.

Aesthetics are just that important, <edit> animals.

I'm starting to have a really hard time believing you aren't trying to just stir stuff up. We've had a very civilized debate about this up until now, with most agreeing that the surgery is safe and painless when done by professionals, and sometimes necessary.

 

[bugmankeith]

They're similar but not the same however that is wholly irrelevant as the argumentation against both remains the same, that non-consensual and forced mutilation is wrong which is what ear cropping, tail cropping and other such nonsense is, canine mutilation for the pathetic emotional benefit of the human.

Aesthetics are just that important, <edit> animals.

I agree, this topic is about dogs not people, only people mutilating dogs because they find it makes them look better. People just back up why breeders do it but breeders also develop dogs with deformities so to speak or to make a dog that suits our needs, completely selfish of humans! Dogs don't need ear cropping and tail docking and if it wasn't for people making rules about animal overpopulation they wouldn't be spayed or neutered either, in other words natural like how they were born.

So again I argue no surgery is necessary for a dog breed for looks only and if you don't like how the dog looks don't buy it at all! That's why so many shelters are full people go by looks, go by temporment and personality. If you can't develop a dog breed that is so unhealthy surgery must correct health issues than you shouldn't be breeding these animals they are in a sense deformed and should stop being bred, its like breeding human midgets to get more midgets even though they suffer from major health problems.

Makes no sense why people purposely deform animals for our benefit to keep them and perform surgery to fix our experiments in the end, that's all breeding is is experimenting with genetics.

 

[Shell]

So again I argue no surgery is necessary for a dog breed for looks only and if you don't like how the dog looks don't buy it at all!

Do you bother to read before you reply? The reasons why cropping happens in some breeds, and continues to happen have been well pinpointed, and explained to you by a few of us (with FAR more dog experience, and medical experience than you have - Formerphobe and I are both certified vet techs, and PBL knows her stuff too). If you're going to argue something try having the proper knowledge to at least back up the argument you're attempting to make.

I don't mind a good discussion about cropping (I've had many being both a tech, and a Doberman owner), and I don't mind people who don't want to own a dog that is cropped. What DOES bug me is someone ignorantly spouting a bunch of PETA garbage, when it's obvious they don't have a single clue what they are talking about. Go back and read, you can still not like it all you want, but at least bother to educate yourself about it so you actually make a coherent argument.

I'm done trying to educate those who think it's all about "mutilating", and "just for looks", and all this garbage about breeders purposely creating dogs with deformities (what?? a true breeder is doing their damndest to better the breed they love). I will save my knowledge for those who are genuinely interested in learning why cropping started, and why it's still done, and also how it's done so that people can learn that aside from itching a little while healing is does not bother the puppy in the least when done correctly.

Oh and spaying and neutering is NOT just for population control, it also prevents a myriad of health problems that can occur by leaving a dog intact. But again, you seem to be so far off in crazy land (aka PETA land) regarding these topics that nothing I (or anyone else) say will get through.

 

[bugmankeith]

Do you bother to read before you reply? The reasons why cropping happens in some breeds, and continues to happen have been well pinpointed, and explained to you by a few of us (with FAR more dog experience, and medical experience than you have - Formerphobe and I are both certified vet techs, and PBL knows her stuff too). If you're going to argue something try having the proper knowledge to at least back up the argument you're attempting to make.

I don't mind a good discussion about cropping (I've had many being both a tech, and a Doberman owner), and I don't mind people who don't want to own a dog that is cropped. What DOES bug me is someone ignorantly spouting a bunch of PETA garbage, when it's obvious they don't have a single clue what they are talking about. Go back and read, you can still not like it all you want, but at least bother to educate yourself about it so you actually make a coherent argument.

I'm done trying to educate those who think it's all about "mutilating", and "just for looks", and all this garbage about breeders purposely creating dogs with deformities (what?? a true breeder is doing their damndest to better the breed they love). I will save my knowledge for those who are genuinely interested in learning why cropping started, and why it's still done, and also how it's done so that people can learn that aside from itching a little while healing is does not bother the puppy in the least when done correctly.

Oh and spaying and neutering is NOT just for population control, it also prevents a myriad of health problems that can occur by leaving a dog intact. But again, you seem to be so far off in crazy land (aka PETA land) regarding these topics that nothing I (or anyone else) say will get through.

Vets are a kind of doctor. You only learn what other vets taught you and in veterinary college. whether you agree with it or not you have to follow their standards, and in different states are different standards and you are in different country so what you say doesn't mean it applies here.

My point is even with human doctors, you'll always have doctors that won't agree on the same approach to treating the patient, which means even as vets, some vets will disagree with you, and others won't, it just depends on what they were taught and by who. Only way I can explain this is in Human doctors some doctors push antibiotics for infection, others don't. But they are all doctors and all have a medical degree, yet their opinions vary greatly.

So doesnt mean your right at all just because one vet (you) says so.

 

[Shell]

Vets are a kind of doctor. You only learn what other vets taught you and in veterinary college. whether you agree with it or not you have to follow their standards, and in different states are different standards and you are in different country so what you say doesn't mean it applies here.

My point is even with human doctors, you'll always have doctors that won't agree on the same approach to treating the patient, which means even as vets, some vets will disagree with you, and others won't, it just depends on what they were taught and by who. Only way I can explain this is in Human doctors some doctors push antibiotics for infection, others don't. But they are all doctors and all have a medical degree, yet their opinions vary greatly.

So doesnt mean your right at all just because one vet (you) says so.

Umm?? You really don't get it, and again didn't bother to read any of the posts explaining cropping to you (mine, Formerphobes, PBLs). I have worked with MANY vets, some who crop, some who don't. I have years of experience, and I also have years of dog experience. I am not new to cropped breeds, both in owning them and working with them. Seriously, your replies make no sense. I'm out, have fun.

Btw, you also know nothing about vets. Overall, things are run pretty much the same between Canada and the US as far as veterinary practices go. I have many veterinary contacts in the US, that I am in regular contact with, discussing veterinary medicine. Any differences are very minor. But hey you just keep claiming to know stuff you obviously don't...

 

[Gilberator]

Ive had Dobermans all my life. All had cropped ears and nubs for tails besides one. It doesn't seem like they enjoy their ears flopping around...at least from my own experience. I prefer my dogs to have chopped ears, but not necessarily raised to stand up. All my dobies (which were female) had this done. Shells got it down so I won't go into further detail.

 

[pouchedrat]

No... some female circumcision is just the skin around the clitoris and nothing more. There are varying degrees of female circumcision. Either or, My sons aren't nor are my brothers. Just like with animals, I'd rather they stay how they were born.

As a teenager, I helped out at a vet's in the back room for a while (my father was friends with the vet there, and I was interested in it at one point in my life) and there was an adult great dane with messed up cropped ears. They had to knock the dog out and recrop her ears because the owners tried doing it at home and it was done "incorrectly".... I just felt bad.

I think being in a back room of a vet helping out was the best way to realize I'd NEVER want to do that for a living. The vet was pretty much desensitized by that point..... kitten with maggots in a gaping wound? put down. Fawn with two broken legs? put down. Found a ferret in someone's back yard? Not my problem and sent them on their way.