What is owning a theraphosa like?

[dannyboypede]

1. like i said before it does have a lot to do with perception in the way that some people do relate instinct to how intelligent some animals are and they have every right to do so no one can tell another person that they can't see something differently than someone else if you choose to be against perception and other people's views that's fine but don't try to go as far as to be a social rapist when someone presents their own standards and criteria

2. wow....really?how does perception not define intelligence or standards?and news flash, it's virtually impossible to not know anything if they truly didn't know anything they wouldn't know how to do certain things thus not doing them in the first place

3. i never claimed that they LIKED their owner i just said that generally any animal has an innate sense that tells them who they interact with the most which is just general knowledge this conversation is over i'm not changing my mind you're clearly not going to change your mind and you've resorted to being rude just because you can't force your generalizations on me and like i said before i don't partake in conversations with social rapists anything else you have to say will be ignored the purpose of this thread was to get to know one another and be open and perceptive and you are clearly incapable of that

I apologize that I am not able to be open to irrationality. If you are going to ignore the people here that are trying to broaden your measly understanding of tarantula behavior, then I guess this conversation is over.

--Dan

 

[DawgPoundSound]

You cancelled out your own statement. You state there is no in between, yet you state the possibility of calculating the level of intellegence. So therefor, you technically cannot calculate a level if there is no middle number, only stupid and smart.


I wanted to venture into owning a Theraphosa, but I have a really bad reaction to my Lasiodoras urticating hairs, so I can only assume what it would be like to have a reaction to the U-hairs of a Theraphosa. They are large and beautiful, however, but the more I research, the further I get from acquisition. To many molt issues, hair issues, and the upkeep is above normal when it comes to feed, humidity, enclosure size later on. Will have to continue my inquiry further until my mind is made.

I didn't say calculating *as measuring the intellect*... I said calculating as being the make-up of intellect. They do things making calculated judgements. This is intellect. You misunderstood me. I don't cancel out my statements. And I don't want to get caught up in this kind of debate because arguing opinions is futile. Thanks

 

[micheldied]

1. like i said before it does have a lot to do with perception in the way that some people do relate instinct to how intelligent some animals are and they have every right to do so no one can tell another person that they can't see something differently than someone else if you choose to be against perception and other people's views that's fine but don't try to go as far as to be a social rapist when someone presents their own standards and criteria

2. wow....really?how does perception not define intelligence or standards?and news flash, it's virtually impossible to not know anything if they truly didn't know anything they wouldn't know how to do certain things thus not doing them in the first place

3. i never claimed that they LIKED their owner i just said that generally any animal has an innate sense that tells them who they interact with the most which is just general knowledge this conversation is over i'm not changing my mind you're clearly not going to change your mind and you've resorted to being rude just because you can't force your generalizations on me and like i said before i don't partake in conversations with social rapists anything else you have to say will be ignored the purpose of this thread was to get to know one another and be open and perceptive and you are clearly incapable of that

1. You can perceive a tarantula's intelligence in any way you like, but the fact, which can not be changed, is that tarantulas do not have the ability to recognize their owners, do not "play" with anything, and just because they poop in the same spot all the time does not make them smarter than a dog. Feed your tarantula, and ask your friend to feed your tarantula, is it going to tell the difference between whoever is feeding it? It probably doesn't even realize that SOMETHING is feeding it.
All tarantulas act on is instinct. They move things, because they do not feel comfortable with it being there, or move things that interfere with the way they've laid out whatever territory they have.

2. YOUR perception does not affect an animal's intelligence. If I said my roach could do math, could it do math? Even if I believed really hard, it can't. Standards are what you make of them, no one can deny you that. And as stated before, they "know" things, because it is programmed into them. If they knew they were being fed, kept in a box, and sheltered, why would they continue making burrows, webbing the hide, when there really is no threat?

3. I am the only person to feed my Dubia roaches, they run and hide when I open the container. If someone else opened the container, they would do the same. These roaches are not going to run out and beg for food when they "sense" me. Same with tarantulas. What we are telling you are NOT generalizations, they are facts. If a box is made of plastic, it will not turn into glass no matter what anyone says, or believes. Oh, and by the way, this thread was asking about peoples' experiences with the Theraphosa genus.

To the OP, I only have two T. Apophysis, which are no larger than 5 inches at the moment, but I must say they are the most enjoyable New World Tarantula I've had thus far. They tackle prey like linebackers.;P
Also, I just felt their urticating hairs for the first time yesterday, and I think my fingers are still slightly swollen as of now. All part of the fun.

 

[salsalover]

ok, apparently the people in this thread have a misunderstanding of the purpose of this thread the purpose of this thread was NOT to start a debate the purpose of this thread was literally to discuss what owning a tarantula is like and somehow it became "hey lets all gang up on OP" i meant what i said earlier when i said this conversation is over i choose to believe that all pets have a natural instinct of who their owner is or isnt because that was my experience and perception does play a huge role in what fact is or isnt there are plenty of standards we use to determine what facts are true individually for us and i honestly don't think it's as black and white as people make it out to be this thread isn't for philosophical debate and as the OP i have every right to end a conversation if it isnt fulfilling the original purpose that i wanted it to have case closed our minds will never work the same way therefore we'll never agree on the concept of fact even and now because of this little flame war people are getting confused and they're starting to think this thread is to start a fight like i said before any attempt to change my opinion at this point is pointless because we just have different experiences that shape what we know and no one else can tell me what i have or havent seen which is why im choosing to end this conversation because it ID becoming social rape in the way that you guys are trying to force your idea of fact onto me im glad you've explained your individual facts and perceptions but we will always have different belief systems regarding how the concept of fact works just like in this instance i've made it known that i don't necessarily believe in concrete fact or a concrete reality and i think there alot of assumptions based off one little phrase i made if you guys had just respected the fact that it was my opinion or my perception in the first place we wouldnt be having this pointless argument that is clearly not going to change my mind to me tarantulas are smart in the way that they have a routine system which in this case is my criteria for intelligence regarding insects but no one bothered to ask what my criteria was and instead you all made assumptions that were 100% wrong and the sad part is the thread is ruined for people that actually wanted to talk about the actual topic


so like i said before case closed because now random people are starting to get involved in a pointless conversation

didn't say calculating *as measuring the intellect*... I said calculating as being the make-up of intellect. They do things making calculated judgements. This is intellect. You misunderstood me. I don't cancel out my statements. And I don't want to get caught up in this kind of debate because arguing opinions is futile. Thanks

apparently this is the only person that understands what i actually meant and the only person that understands that even in debate and argumentation classes arguing opinion and values are considered pointless like i said before you guys wont change my mind because we have different opinions of what intellect is it's already clear to see that we will NEVER agree about what intellect is so (i didn't wanna say this but you guys leave me no choice) JUST SHUT UP IF YOU'RE NOT GOING TO TALK ABOUT THE ASSIGNED TOPIC!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[micheldied]

ok, apparently the people in this thread have a misunderstanding of the purpose of this thread the purpose of this thread was NOT to start a debate the purpose of this thread was literally to discuss what owning a tarantula is like and somehow it became "hey lets all gang up on OP" i meant what i said earlier when i said this conversation is over i choose to believe that all pets have a natural instinct of who their owner is or isnt because that was my experience and perception does play a huge role in what fact is or isnt there are plenty of standards we use to determine what facts are true individually for us and i honestly don't think it's as black and white as people make it out to be this thread isn't for philosophical debate and as the OP i have every right to end a conversation if it isnt fulfilling the original purpose that i wanted it to have case closed our minds will never work the same way therefore we'll never agree on the concept of fact even and now because of this little flame war people are getting confused and they're starting to think this thread is to start a fight like i said before any attempt to change my opinion at this point is pointless because we just have different experiences that shape what we know and no one else can tell me what i have or havent seen which is why im choosing to end this conversation because it ID becoming social rape in the way that you guys are trying to force your idea of fact onto me im glad you've explained your individual facts and perceptions but we will always have different belief systems regarding how the concept of fact works just like in this instance i've made it known that i don't necessarily believe in concrete fact or a concrete reality and i think there alot of assumptions based off one little phrase i made if you guys had just respected the fact that it was my opinion or my perception in the first place we wouldnt be having this pointless argument that is clearly not going to change my mind to me tarantulas are smart in the way that they have a routine system which in this case is my criteria for intelligence regarding insects but no one bothered to ask what my criteria was and instead you all made assumptions that were 100% wrong and the sad part is the thread is ruined for people that actually wanted to talk about the actual topic


so like i said before case closed because now random people are starting to get involved in a pointless conversation








apparently this is the only person that understands what i actually meant and the only person that understands that even in debate and argumentation classes arguing opinion and values are considered pointless like i said before you guys wont change my mind because we have different opinions of what intellect is it's already clear to see that we will NEVER agree about what intellect is so (i didn't wanna say this but you guys leave me no choice) JUST SHUT UP IF YOU'RE NOT GOING TO TALK ABOUT THE ASSIGNED TOPIC!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry, but I didn't realize YOU were the OP.
As the OP, I guess you are entitled to say whatever you want (within the forum's boundaries).
Though you did begin the topic of tarantula's intelligence.

Also, if you used punctuations I'm sure a lot of people would be more understanding of what you're trying to say.

I'll end with this: You won't regret getting any Theraphosa. (Just my opinion)

 

[Suidakkra]

Im free to say gravity doesnt apply to my tarantulas, and someone with a minimun knowledge of physics is also free to say im out of my mind.

Fran, your Tarantulasaurs cannot be explained by physics, lol.

 

[salsalover]

Fran, your Tarantulasaurs cannot be explained by physics, lol.

now that made my day lol


yeah sorry for yelling guys but i get easily offended and it seemed like you guys were trying to team up on me

 

[BobGrill]

that's a pretty broad statement i know a few owners who keep toys in their tarantulas cage and use them to interact with the tarantula and some tarantulas do go in the same spot every time i mean just because you haven't heard of them doing any of the things i described doesn't mean i haven't seen them and it doesn't mean it's never happened any time in history that's pretty bold to say "oh it's never ever happen before it won't ever happen and 100% of all tarantulas in the world don't know how to do it" granted they aren't dogs but some owners interact with their tarantulas so much that they DO run to the owners when let out of the cage and some do like crawling ontheir owners i never said that this would be the general behavior for all tarantulas i expected people to know that i meant SOME

Tarantulas are not dogs and do not play with toys.

 

[salsalover]

Tarantulas are not dogs and do not play with toys.

and yet some people put toys in a tarantulas cage,there's nothing new under the sun and for the last time this thread is about discussing what our favorite kinds of theraphosa are therefore your comment about the previous discussion was never welcome

 

[Robertb]

I know, it is probably a dumb question to most of you guys but i do not own a theraphosa however they look so adorable and seem so smart i am beginning to wonder what owning one is like. Anyone care to share?


like all my posts pics ARE welcome!

I got my 7" female Sub-adult Theraphosa Stirmi 2 weeks ago and i love her to death. she is a great eater and quite hungry might i add. Im fattening her up a bit since she had to be a little slim for the shipping when i bought her. She will hold 3-4 super worms in her fangs at once! Its so awsome. She haired me for the first time the other day which honestly wasn't bad since it was a light kicking. She was just letting me know " hey stay back while im eating" She is easily one of my favorite Ts her and my L. Parahybana

 

[phoenixxavierre]

Seriously?? :wall:

You are sadly mistaken.

No tarantula can recognize their owner or "play games."

haven't read through all the posts yet but I have to interject here. Tarantulas are absolutely capable of learning to differentiate between people. I know this from personal experience, and witnessed on repeated occasions.

---------- Post added at 12:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:00 PM ----------

Some tarantulas do go in the same spot to keep poo from being all over the place. That's instincts.

What your perceiving as "playing games" and interacting with toys is not them "playing a game". My Ts will frequently roll water dishes around. They aren't playing with it, they just don't like where it's at.

As for tarantulas running to their owners... Give me a break. You can't be serious. Tarantulas are near blind, they don't "see" you. They can sense vibrations. And since they don't know what we are, they can't perceive you as their "owner" or even like you. And that's for ALL tarantulas not just some.

And please, use punctuation.

If it were instinct, it would be ALL tarantulas, not just SOME.

 

[Fran]

....

 

[phoenixxavierre]

I did not want to get into into this, but I cant help it.

Salsalover:

One can have an opinion totally different than another. I like Red, you like blue. I think this woman is pretty and you think she is not. That is a personal perception of the world around us and theres no right or wrong there.Correct.
NOW, a tarantula can not identify anyone as its owner. PERIOD. That is here, in Mars, or in the Popular Republic of China.
What you are implying is an absurd scientificaly speaking. Theres no other way to look at it, and wheter you think they know who you are or they play with toys, that is is fantastic but is still an absurd.

Im free to say gravity doesnt apply to my tarantulas, and someone with a minimun knowledge of physics is also free to say im out of my mind.

I could be wrong here but I think salsalover is being misunderstood. I think they are trying to say that a tarantula can differentiate between the person who feeds, waters, and handles them on a frequent basis, and someone who doesn't. And I back up that idea, because I have personal experiences which attest to it.

 

[Fran]

I could be wrong here but I think salsalover is being misunderstood. I think they are trying to say that a tarantula can differentiate between the person who feeds, waters, and handles them on a frequent basis, and someone who doesn't. And I back up that idea, because I have personal experiences which attest to it.[/QUOTE]


Im sorry to sound rude, but that is simply not true.

Please, pick up a manual regarding animal behavior, (specifically invertebrates) and you will there find your answers.

If after that you still believe that a tarantula is capable of what you are implying...Then I cant help you further.

 

[Hamburglar]

You can stick your hand in any of my Theraphosa sp. enclosures. I am sure they would bite you all as promptly as they would bite me..

In my experience with the genus, I have found them to be one of my more defensive and/or flighty spiders. Any disturbance and they will stick their butts up in the air and start flicking like crazy. They skip around their enclosures very quickly and are very happy to take a meal.

I don't have a very bad reaction to their hairs......... Yet.

ETA: Mine are still relatively small.

 

[Najakeeper]

The eye sees what brain wants to observe. Don't turn your animals into things that they simply are not. What they are is more than enough.

 

[phoenixxavierre]

I could be wrong here but I think salsalover is being misunderstood. I think they are trying to say that a tarantula can differentiate between the person who feeds, waters, and handles them on a frequent basis, and someone who doesn't. And I back up that idea, because I have personal experiences which attest to it.[/QUOTE]


Im sorry to sound rude, but that is simply not true.

Please, pick up a manual regarding animal behavior, (specifically invertebrates) and you will there find your answers.

If after that you still believe that a tarantula is capable of what you are implying...Then I cant help you further.

Why do you think you are sounding rude?

The truth is there is no way for us to scientifically measure in any accurate and meaningful form what level of intelligence that they possess. We have no way to know what they are feeling, and yes, they do feel, in a big way, thus hairs and sensory organs. We can throw out a theory, but unless you've lived your life as a tarantula, there simply is no way of knowing.

I don't appreciate you speaking to me as if I'm uneducated.

I didn't ask for your help nor do I need it.

I have had multiple experiences keeping tarantulas that have led me to believe that they are not mindless drones, acting entirely on instinct.

I'll give you an example. I had a cobalt blue named Phyllis, large and beautiful, wild caught. I would spend time watching her, feeding her, watering her, talking to her. She was climbing out of her tank one day when the lid fell out of my grasp and fell shut on the top of the aquarium, inadvertently landing (slamming down on) on Phyllis' toes. I'm sure it wasn't a pleasant experience for her. After that, anytime she would feel the specific vibrations (unlike anyone else's) from my voice she would flip out, flipping on her back and doing the nasty dance, smacking at me, showing her fangs, etc. Now if a friend would open up the tank and talk to her, or my wife, she wouldn't react the same way. I took note of this behavior and tested and retested it. I've had many similar experiences with other species, as well. Sound waves are unique and tarantulas are sensitive enough to differentiate between different vibrations, be it predator or prey. The ability to be conditioned likely has a lot to do with their ability to sense changes around them via their hairs. I'm sure they are also able to differentiate between chemical signatures on people's hands.

You should really learn to open up your mind to possibilities outside of the box. there is a lot more that we don't know about these creatures than we do know.

As far as T. blondi, they, of course (being the largest theraposid) huge, and have horrible urticating hairs. I got in a shipment once of a dozen very large wild caught adults. I had to sex them in the bathtub as that was the easiest way to deal with them. After picking them up (all with varying degrees of resistance) and flipping them over to sex them, I moved them all to their new quarters until sale. The hairs were torture. I was itching for a half hour or more, even got in the shower it was so bad, trying to relieve the itching, but of course that didn't work, either. I had to wait for the itching to alleviate on its own. I've found that T. blondi are particular conducive to conditioning. They learn that when you open up the tank, that means either food or water, and usually its food they're hoping for. If it's not tossed directly in front of them for them to grab, they search the tank for it, which suggests memory and a certain degree of awareness. I've also bred and raised up this species, and they are very interesting to watch grow, and they start out pretty large a well, and grow quickly with a voracious appetite. One of the most interesting and pleasurable to keep tarantulas in the hobby in my opinion.

---------- Post added at 12:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:40 PM ----------

The eye sees what brain wants to observe. Don't turn your animals into things that they simply are not. What they are is more than enough.

Perhaps people should do the same with one another, seeing as we are also animals.

 

[Fran]

I don't appreciate you speaking to me as if I'm uneducated.

Well, theres no other way to say it but by sounding somewhat rude. I did not mean to imply you are uneducated, but what you are suggesting is something an uneducated individual would suggest. A tarantula having the capability to differenciate its owner from other people.

If someone is pointing out facts to me about the M Theory, and I tell him to step outside the box because there are way over 11 dimensions in the Universe because I "feel them"...
Then well, I can believe what I want but obvioulsy Im sounding uneducated.

 

[phoenixxavierre]

Well, theres no other way to say it but by sounding rude. I did not mean to imply you are uneducated, but what you are suggesting is something an uneducated individual would suggest.

If someone is pointing out facts to me about the M Theory, and I tell him to step outside the box because there are way over 11 dimensions in the Universe because I "feel them"...
Then well, I can believe what I want but obvioulsy Im sounding uneducated.

Think outside of the box for a change. You didn't imply I was uneducated, you assumed I am. And your idea of an educated and an uneducated statement seems very limited.

I'm not talking about a "feeling" I had, I'm talking about observable results in a controlled environment.

 

[Fran]

Think outside of the box for a change. You didn't imply I was uneducated, you assumed I am. And your idea of an educated and an uneducated statement seems very limited.

I'm not talking about a "feeling" I had, I'm talking about observable results in a controlled environment.

Please,come on here... What observable results? What controlled enviroment?
Its simply your particular perception. That in science means nothing.
You need to read about what the Scientific method is.

If you are implying that an invertebrate such a tarantula can differenciate its owner from other people,then we are done here. Not to sound rude, again.
But that is an absurd.