What EXACTLY should LAG mean

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Great Basin Ben

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Fed-ex NEVER AGAIN

Cody,
You brought up the fact that Fed-Ex, is not only TWICE as expensive, but their service, leaves A LOT to be desired. Moving forward, one of the other BIG lessons to be taken away from this experience, is to choose Sellers/breeders that use an alternate service OTHER THAN FED-EX...
 

Fran

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Like I said in my first post, I'm not saying it's right, it's just the way it is WITH MOST DEALERS. I guess you've been lucky not to have run afoul of it.
No matter what you think is fair, THERE IS STILL NO STANDARD. Go ahead and do an inventory of dealers who sell here and show me how many state that they cover return shipping. A 'standard' would be, by default, what the majority do...


Bill
Actually, most of the trustworthy dealers I know will cover full refund.
Ken the Bug Guy,Paul Becker,OnlyExotics...
 

codykrr

Arachnoking
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Billopelma:

There ARE certain standars understood in this hobby.

As I said, unless the seller and the buyer agree to void LAG or not to pay
for shipping on that guarantee,
the standar is : The spider arrives dead on an Express overnight shipping=You get another t or your FULL MONEY BACK.


I dont live in any spider fantasy land. Its just how this works when you do the things right.

The OP was screwed over, and he should put a review since he is clearly not happy with the situation.


On a personal note: I have sent hundreds of spiders. The last one unfortunately arrived DOA because THE CARRIER messed up and deliver 2 days later. I refunded the full amount no questions asked.

Thats what I do and a smiliar deal is what I would expect. If someone is not gonna offer me similar conditions that person wont get my bussines.

That "store credit" CERTAIN dealers do is simply an INSULT.

I buy a Xhenesthis, it arrives DOA, IS NOT OK that you tell me "oh, You get store credit...and heres the stock for the store credit: G.roseas".
INSULTING.
Fran while yeah that is excellent practice. it isnt common with dealers. least not in my experience.

The problem lies here.

A. the package arrive on time. when that happens the carrier cant be held liable for late delivery.

If it did arrive late the seller could get a refund from the carrier, and refund the shipping cost, and money for the T. because they guarantee their delivery times.

B. no one insured the package(least it hasnt been mentioned.)

so to be honest, this is a communication error, on both seller and buys part. they should have agreed on what would happen in case of a DOA.

I am not saying this is the right way. I am saying this is how it works(most of the time, and in my experience)

now you know.

DONT USE FED EX!
 

Great Basin Ben

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Actually, most of the dealers I know will cover full refund.
Ken the Bug Guy,Paul Becker,OnlyExotics...
I'm going to be certain to ONLY buy from folks like this in the future, and as I've already stated, when I am selling spiders, in my near future, will be happy to honor these same practices. Especially given that any given breeding project will inevitably lead to HUNDREDS of available slings, I'd be happier to maintain a positive relationship with a fellow Arachnophile , than I would to save $16 in the long run...

Everybody's different though, but still ,WHAT A BUMMER! I guess I'll still have to wait for my Carribean Dwarf.:(
 

Suidakkra

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Actually, most of the trustworthy dealers I know will cover full refund.
Ken the Bug Guy,Paul Becker,OnlyExotics...

That's the only way I purchase my T's. I deal with the highly reputable, highly recommended dealers. Large, or small scale, if they do not have 8+ pages of positive reviews, I dont deal. Just me though.


I know many of the bigger dealers have warnings on their sites about the weather, and list that the LAG will not apply due to the weather. It's just the wrong time of year to be shipping anything live via mail, just my opinion and im sure someone may disagree, but oh well.
 

Vinnyg253

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I agree with Fran on this one. Most anyone who gets my business is gonna be someone who would shipp me out another T free of charge if thier LAG failed in someway. I won't buy from Dealers who don't offer that plain and simple. I think its the only way to do business, make sure the customer is happy one way or the other.
 

Versi*JP*Color

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Was it an online dealer?
Or a Utah pet store, I know the ones here locally have websites and one in particular that takes <edit> care of there tarantulas.
 
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Great Basin Ben

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Was it an online dealer?
Or a Utah pet store, I know the ones here locally have websites and one in particular that takes <edit> care of there tarantulas.
This thread wasn't meant to OUT any ONE particular Dealer, or Seller in any way. For that reason, I will be including a link to this thread, on the Review that I Do offer the seller. Unfortunately, like you point out here, there are those sellers, who are excellent contributors to this hobby, and others, ... Well... we'll just leave it at that...

This isn't any attempt to TRASh anyone's reputation. This thread speaks alone, and I thank ALL of you who have voiced your opinions, and contributed. Long story short, I DID, file a claim through Paypal, for the additional $36 to be refunded, and hope to be able to put this behind me as a valuable learning experience.

The tragedy here, is the BEAUTIFUL spider that was lost. In the end, I think this is stiil what upsets me the most. It simply seems like the MORE valuable remedy would have been more akin to "... I'm terribly sorry for your loss. I'll get you a new one out right away."
;)

Ben.
 
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CAK

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Bill you bring up a valid point, and moving forward, these will likely be some of my FIRST questions, so as to have everything on the level playing field, UP FRONT...

That said, I had a Seller (SouthwestInvert) not only replace a DOA, but ALSO INCLUDED several freebies, for my time, trouble, WHILE ALSO paying for the shipping for the replacements. This is how I plan to operating my Tarantula selling, (once I begin),and simply thought that "Live Arrival Guarantee", meant just this, GUARANTEE. I know what they say about assuming, and YES, this whole experience, has made me feel like a truly bummed out "A@#"...

Like I said though, I now have NO spider, and am out an additional $36, and to me, a "Guarantee" this doe NOT make. As pointed out by a fellow Arachnophile, When you pay for the Guarantee, you're paying for THAT, (a guarantee), not Tarantula Insurance..

I guess life is ALL about these kinds of learning experiences, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't EXTREMELY bummed, by how this turned out.
I think the OP said southwest inverts.


Be careful Vinnie! It wasn't Southwest Inverts...
 

Suidakkra

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This thread wasn't meant to OUT any ONE particular Dealer, or Seller in any way. For that reason, I will be including a link to this thread, on the Review that I Do offer the seller. Unfortunately, like you point out here, there are those sellers, who are excellent contributors to this hobby, and others, ... Well... we'll just leave it at that...

This isn't any attempt to TRASh anyone's reputation. This thread speaks alone, and I thank ALL of you who have voiced your opinions, and contributed. Long story short, I DID, file a claim through Paypal, for the additional $36 to be refunded, and hope to be able to put this behind me as a valuable learning experience.

The tragedy here, is the BEAUTIFUL spider that was lost. In the end, I think this is stiil what upsets me the most. It simply seems like the MORE valuable remedy would have been more akin to "... I'm terribly sorry for your loss. I'll get you a new one out right away."
;)

Ben.
Well stated, I agree completely.
 

paassatt

Arachnoangel
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You brought up the fact that Fed-Ex, is not only TWICE as expensive, but their service, leaves A LOT to be desired. Moving forward, one of the other BIG lessons to be taken away from this experience, is to choose Sellers/breeders that use an alternate service OTHER THAN FED-EX...
Maybe it's because I work in a warehouse and ship/receive a lot of freight on a daily basis and also send/receive many packages via their overnight service, but I've never once had a customer service issue with FedEx. I've noticed more than a couple having beef with them. I was just wondering what they did to make some people have such a sour view on them.
 

billopelma

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As I said, unless the seller and the buyer agree to void LAG or not to pay
for shipping on that guarantee, the standar is : The spider arrives dead on an Express overnight shipping=You get another t or your FULL MONEY BACK.

Actually, most of the trustworthy dealers I know will cover full refund.
Ken the Bug Guy,Paul Becker,OnlyExotics...

I'm not talking about your few select dealers, I mean the vast majority of dealers doing business online. Cherry picking a few doesn't constitute a 'standard' by any stretch of the imagination.
I did a little followup and only found one dealer who specifically states they cover return shipping, that's Ken the Bug Guy. Paul Becker/Petcenter site say's shipping is buyers responsibility, OnlyExotics has no web site so I couldn't check.

So go back and do your homework and show me this preponderance of dealers who set your wishful standard of the industry.
I also wish that things were that way, but they're not...


Bill
 

codykrr

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Maybe it's because I work in a warehouse and ship/receive a lot of freight on a daily basis and also send/receive many packages via their overnight service, but I've never once had a customer service issue with FedEx. I've noticed more than a couple having beef with them. I was just wondering what they did to make some people have such a sour view on them.

this isnt just for spiders.

Lost packages, boxes coming to me pre opened. and the item being smashed to crap(this happened with some gun parts....

Not updating tracking numbers, leaving Ts in my unlocked car...because the driver was to lazy to knock on my door(yes I was home, and no he didnt knock) this resulted in a cooked T as it was 105F outside.

leaving packages on my doorstep, that I was supposed to sign for. the list goes on and on.

UPS is just as bad. but I can handle them. At least they havent presented me with opened packages that were damaged. or open MY car door and put things inside(or take something out).
 

Fran

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I'm not talking about your few select dealers, I mean the vast majority of dealers doing business online. Cherry picking a few doesn't constitute a 'standard' by any stretch of the imagination.
I did a little followup and only found one dealer who specifically states they cover return shipping, that's Ken the Bug Guy. Paul Becker/Petcenter site say's shipping is buyers responsibility, OnlyExotics has no web site so I couldn't check.

So go back and do your homework and show me this preponderance of dealers who set your wishful standard of the industry.
I also wish that things were that way, but they're not...


Bill
My homework? haha.

Man, most of the dealers I prsonally, myself, Francisco Estevez, have dealt with have covered any problem with a full refund.

It must be me that im scary or too ugly then.

Again, No need to look for anything (by the way, there are not that many known dealers) everything has been said already.

I still think thats not the norm in this hobby. Most of the people will grant you a full refund nowadays.

If you dont have the money to grant a refund, dont get into the selling "bussines" then or state it CLEARLY prior selling.
 

Venari

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Also, since everyone apparently claims fed ex has a "live animal" policy, the FED EX should have some sort of guarantee the animal arrives alive.

That is unless people are just saying fed ex ships live animals...just so they can justify using them.(because I hate fed ex with a passion) I wont order from certain dealers because they only ship fed ex.
If Fed-Ex has a Live animal policy, I have to wonder: where the parcels labelled as live animals before they were shipped? If a courier doesn't know that there are live animals inside a box, they might not be as careful as they could be. After all, a mystery box without any "fragile" or "live" labels might be tossed less gently into a truck or bin.

If they permit live animals to be shipped, then we shouldn't be afraid to label the boxes as such.
 

Newflvr

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Lag

LAG ( Live Arrival Guarantee) means to me that if you are there to sign for the package on first delivery attempt and within a reasonable amount of time inform me of a problem it will be taken care of. I would require a pic as proof of course. If I shipped multiple T' and the problem was with part of them, I would refund cost of those T's only. If the problem was with the entire shipment a full refund including shipping is in order. Shippers are like cars there can be problems in any make.
 

Bengal21

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Sorry for the incoming wall of text but here goes.

I have to chime in as devil's advocate here for the shippers. Whether or not we're shipping most of these animals legally, be it USPS, UPS, FEDEX, at best it's cloudy if it is within their rules and the law. I'd guess many packages aren't marked "live" because in truth, you don't really want the shipper knowing what's in the box. Look at the comments section in any Youtube video with inverts and you'll see that the general public is for the most part cruel and ignorant. The most common post from non-enthusiasts is "Stomp on it" or "set it on fire". That being said, if we're breaking the rules of these carriers, we too as their customers share some of the responsibility.

This from FED EX:

" FedEx does not accept live-animal shipments as part of its regular scheduled service. Live animals will be accepted when the shipment is coordinated and approved by the FedEx Live Animal Desk. Acceptable shipments include, but are not limited to, zoo animals (to and from zoo locations only) and horses (from gateway to gateway locations only). Household pets, such as domestic cats and dogs, and live fish are not accepted. For more information, contact the FedEx Live Animal Desk at 1.800.405.9052"

Its not really fair to bash the company when they expressly state they don't do what 95% of us slip in under their nose. I guess...Don't throw a carton of eggs in your clothes dryer and then when they're all broken say "GE sucks!!! Their dryer beat my stuff up."

If Fed-Ex has a Live animal policy, I have to wonder: where the parcels labelled as live animals before they were shipped? If a courier doesn't know that there are live animals inside a box, they might not be as careful as they could be. After all, a mystery box without any "fragile" or "live" labels might be tossed less gently into a truck or bin.

If they permit live animals to be shipped, then we shouldn't be afraid to label the boxes as such.

Or the punk who works at "Carrier X" kicks your box and turns it upside down because he knows there's a spider in it.

To be honest, the most responsible way of acquiring these animals we all love is in person. This certainly complicates and makes difficult getting what you want, but if we buy stuff online and have it shipped, we are rolling the dice at best. Are there certain avenues we prefer over others to increase our odds? Sure, but you're only increasing the odds.

Overall, I'm with Fran. The buyer pays shipping twice seems like a policy that is just cancerous. Why would I pay for a 2nd animal right after you prove you can't pack the first one? To me, that responsibility goes to the packer, as he is the one in control of the animals' surroundings while it's in transit. This especially goes double because the seller is determining the price of shipping. For all I know the carrier is charging 27 dollars for this package, yet many people have blanket prices in the mid to upper 30's. If you put disclaimers all over your site that state your policy is "Buyer responsible for all shipping for lost animals" then so be it. But to me, if you're a good dealer, who packs properly, you don't need that policy. That policy, IMO, is a red flag that you're taking a risk from the get go. To me, if you are selling an animal online and offer "LAG", you are assuming responsibility that whatever avenue you choose for shipping, you can provide sufficient packaging to keep said cargo safe. It breaks down to this: If you can't get your product to me, you don't have a product, so don't sell it.

This is a tough issue, because on the other side of the coin, as a seller, should I have to pay another 30 dollars to ship an 8 dollar G Rosea for the 2nd time because the first, for reasons out of my control, didn't make it? I'm looking at a 38 dollar loss on an 8 dollar animal? It makes it a tough scenario to ship unless you are only shipping higher end specimens. Do any of the shippers offer insurance on their packages? That is where a lot of this can be avoided. For example, I buy a 30 dollar vase. Ups will ship it for 20 bucks plus 3 dollars for insurance on the value of the vase. I don't know if they have this, but man it would be great if they did.

In closing, when I buy T's online, I look for people who "do the right thing" as opposed to "cover their ass" with policies. At the end of the day, Ben, I'm sorry for your loss and you are right. The worst part of all of this is the beautiful animal that was lost in all the crossfire.
 
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joshuai

Arachnoangel
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Sorry for the incoming wall of text but here goes.

I have to chime in as devil's advocate here for the shippers. Whether or not we're shipping most of these animals legally, be it USPS, UPS, FEDEX, at best it's cloudy if it is within their rules and the law. I'd guess many packages aren't marked "live" because in truth, you don't really want the shipper knowing what's in the box. Look at the comments section in any Youtube video with inverts and you'll see that the general public is for the most part cruel and ignorant. The most common post from non-enthusiasts is "Stomp on it" or "set it on fire". That being said, if we're breaking the rules of these carriers, we too as their customers share some of the responsibility.

This from FED EX:

" FedEx does not accept live-animal shipments as part of its regular scheduled service. Live animals will be accepted when the shipment is coordinated and approved by the FedEx Live Animal Desk. Acceptable shipments include, but are not limited to, zoo animals (to and from zoo locations only) and horses (from gateway to gateway locations only). Household pets, such as domestic cats and dogs, and live fish are not accepted. For more information, contact the FedEx Live Animal Desk at 1.800.405.9052"

Its not really fair to bash the company when they expressly state they don't do what 95% of us slip in under their nose. I guess...Don't throw a carton of eggs in your clothes dryer and then when they're all broken say "GE sucks!!! Their dryer beat my stuff up."




Or the punk who works at "Carrier X" kicks your box and turns it upside down because he knows there's an animal in it.

To be honest, the most responsible way of acquiring these animals we all love is in person. This certainly complicates and makes difficult getting what you want, but if we buy stuff online and have it shipped, we are rolling the dice at best. Are there certain avenues we prefer over others to increase our odds? Sure, but you're only increasing the odds.

Overall, I'm with Fran. The buyer pays shipping twice seems like a policy that is just cancerous. Why would I pay for a 2nd animal right after you prove you can't pack the first one? To me, that responsibility goes to the packer, as he is the one in control of the animals' surroundings while it's in transit. This especially goes double because the seller is determining the price of shipping. For all I know the carrier is charging 27 dollars for this package, yet many people have blanket prices in the mid to upper 30's. If you put disclaimers all over your site that state your policy is "Buyer responsible for all shipping for lost animals" then so be it. But to me, if you're a good dealer, who packs properly, you don't need that policy. That policy, IMO, is a red flag that you're taking a risk from the get go.

This is a tough issue, because on the other side of the coin, as a seller, should I have to pay another 30 dollars to ship an 8 dollar G Rosea for the 2nd time because the first, for reasons out of my control, didn't make it? I'm looking at a 38 dollar loss on an 8 dollar animal? It makes it a tough scenario to ship unless you are only shipping higher end specimens.

In closing, when I buy T's online, I look for people who "do the right thing" as opposed to "cover their ass" with policies. At the end of the day, Ben, I'm sorry for your loss and you are right. The worst part of all of this is the beautiful animal that was lost in all the crossfire.

---------- Post added at 04:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:48 PM ----------

I agree with you but not all can buy in person i live in rural alaska and would have to drive 300 miles to buy a G. rosea So am forced to do all business online! but i have not lost a T inthe mail yet!
 
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