What EXACTLY should LAG mean

Status
Not open for further replies.

xchondrox

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
Oct 31, 2005
Messages
317
I wish you luck with your paypal claim.....Hope you used a CC as the payment method.

I also agree that a full refund is in order. Live in learn though, Thanks for leaving a review on this "Seller"
 

billopelma

Arachnolord
Old Timer
Joined
Sep 20, 2005
Messages
604
I should know better than to get into anything with you Fran, you never give up even after the point is long lost on you.;)

My homework? haha.
Yes, exactly. Research instead of spouting off your questionable opinion as fact. I did my homework. Thinking I may be a bit out of date, I looked at more than a half dozen of the biggest dealers I know of who have websites. All but one very clearly state in their LAG policy that shipping is NOT covered as part of the guarantee. Do they strictly hold to that policy, are there exceptions? I don't know. But it's there plain as day, clearly stated in most cases, no deception and has been that way as long as I've been in the hobby.


Man, most of the dealers I prsonally, myself, Francisco Estevez, have dealt with have covered any problem with a full refund.
Probably because no dealer in their right mind would chance pissing you off, you're very well known to be tenaciously 'vocal' in expressing your opinions{D.

That and I'm sure if you have an established relationship and spend lots of $$$ they'll make things right in your particular case, just common business sense.

It must be me that im scary or too ugly then.
Maybe also true but in this case is just a big mouth (metaphorically speaking) and a lot of attitude.

Again, No need to look for anything (by the way, there are not that many known dealers)...
As I said above, I had no problem finding 7-8 of them in ten minutes.

I still think thats not the norm in this hobby. Most of the people will grant you a full refund nowadays.
Would be nice if you're right.

If you dont have the money to grant a refund, dont get into the selling "bussines" then or state it CLEARLY prior selling.
That's the funny part, they do state it clearly but people don't bother to check and just assume other wise.
__________________




Bill
 

Fran

Arachnoprince
Old Timer
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
1,533
I should know better than to get into anything with you Fran, you never give up even after the point is long lost on you.;)



Yes, exactly. Research instead of spouting off your questionable opinion as fact. I did my homework. Thinking I may be a bit out of date, I looked at more than a half dozen of the biggest dealers I know of who have websites. All but one very clearly state in their LAG policy that shipping is NOT covered as part of the guarantee. Do they strictly hold to that policy, are there exceptions? I don't know. But it's there plain as day, clearly stated in most cases, no deception and has been that way as long as I've been in the hobby.




Probably because no dealer in their right mind would chance pissing you off, you're very well known to be tenaciously 'vocal' in expressing your opinions{D.

That and I'm sure if you have an established relationship and spend lots of $$$ they'll make things right in your particular case, just common business sense.



Maybe also true but in this case is just a big mouth (metaphorically speaking) and a lot of attitude.



As I said above, I had no problem finding 7-8 of them in ten minutes.



Would be nice if you're right.



That's the funny part, they do state it clearly but people don't bother to check and just assume other wise.
__________________




Bill
Bill, since you have it with me:
You said yourself theres NOT A NORM.Yet you are saying that most of them wont pay for the refund on shipping.

I have been in THE USA HOBBY since 07, but I started buying and selling in 1995 in Spain.
Only ONCE, with a certain dealer that I dont like in the least, I have experienced that sort of no shipping money stuff/only stock refund.

Some years ago it was more of a common practice, but nowadays almost everybody will grant you a full refund.

About the big mouth and lots of attitude? I got lost in there.

Let me repeat, You can find as many people or more that will grant you a full refund than the greedy ones that wont pay for shipping.

You are dead wrong if you remotely think that most of the sellers wont refund you a full amount, specially, nowadays where nothing sells the way it used to be.

PS: If you are gonna answer to my post with an opening statement like"I should know better than to get into anything with you Fran, you never give up even after the point is long lost on you" , then better just dont say anything and at least you dont look like an ass ;).
 
Last edited:

Great Basin Ben

Arachnosquire
Joined
Oct 2, 2010
Messages
86
I think the OP said southwest inverts.
NOT TRUE!!! I NEVER said who. I said that when I had a previous DOA, and the seller was SouthwestInvert, that Wayne not only replaced my spider for free, but that he included a couple of extras for my time, trouble, and loss, and the HE, actually picked up the shipping on the replacement side of things.

I guess he spoiled me, and I honestly thought, this is how ALL dealer/breeders treated their customers. SouthwestInvert has been NOTHING BUT THE BEST to me, and I'll continue to toot Wayne's horn, as long as he'll let me.

Please forgive any misunderstandings, if you confused the seller from whom I had a negative LAG experience, with Wayne.
 

BrettG

Arachnoprince
Old Timer
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Messages
1,315
It is what happens....I shipped a large P.irminia a few months ago that arrived more or less in pieces.The buyer contacted me asap,with pictures.At that point I knew that I was about to be shipping my other large female and eating the price of shipping.Person I did the trade with was happy,and even though I was out a spider,I felt good knowing that I did the right thing,as I already had his end of the trade.. As a seller,when things happen ( and trust me,ship enough,and they will)you need to have a solid plan in place that keeps your customer happy.If you can not afford to eat the cost of shipping every now and then,or replace something,you have no business even offering things for sale.It reminds me of buying a used car AS IS, with out a warranty..and then having it explode.(shrugs)
 

Great Basin Ben

Arachnosquire
Joined
Oct 2, 2010
Messages
86
It is what happens....I shipped a large P.irminia a few months ago that arrived more or less in pieces.The buyer contacted me asap,with pictures.At that point I knew that I was about to be shipping my other large female and eating the price of shipping.Person I did the trade with was happy,and even though I was out a spider,I felt good knowing that I did the right thing,as I already had his end of the trade.. As a seller,when things happen ( and trust me,ship enough,and they will)you need to have a solid plan in place that keeps your customer happy.If you can not afford to eat the cost of shipping every now and then,or replace something,you have no business even offering things for sale.It reminds me of buying a used car AS IS, with out a warranty...(shrugs)

This is very well said Brett. I aspire to ahere to these kinds of practices myself, and it's a real pleasure knowing that there are probably MORE Invertebrate enthusiasts, who think like THIS, then ones who don't.
 

billopelma

Arachnolord
Old Timer
Joined
Sep 20, 2005
Messages
604
I too, can be tenacious...:D

Bill, since you have it with me:
The only reason I "have it" with you is because YOU started it with me in your post #18. No axe-to-grind or anything like that from me, nothing personal (yet).
I actually wasn't even going to respond to you because, like it/believe it or not, you have a reputation (with some) here of being very difficult to get a point across to and never giving up once you get going.
IMHO..., no citations, no papers...

You said yourself theres NOT A NORM.
Yes, I was mistaken there, after actually looking at all those dealer websites (unlike you who is still just guessing) I found that 'buyer responsible for shipping' is the norm/standard. I knew it was very prevalent but didn't realize the extent of it.
That and originally I was thinking more in terms of the hobby overall and not just the major dealers but the dealers are really the ones who set the standards that many others then cite/follow.


Only ONCE, with a certain dealer that I dont like in the least, I have experienced that sort of no shipping money stuff/only stock refund.
If that's who I think it is, he has recently changed the website but used to have policies so complicated and deceptive that any sleazy lawyer would have been proud of it.

Some years ago it was more of a common practice, but nowadays almost everybody will grant you a full refund. Let me repeat, You can find as many people or more that will grant you a full refund than the greedy ones that wont pay for shipping.
Please show us all where, your experiences would be much appreciated.

Just for clarification, I'm only referring to dealers who have established sites, I have no way of knowing what is the individual policy of every hobbyist who sells a T.

About the big mouth and lots of attitude? I got lost in there.
You make a lot of 'noise' here when you're unhappy about something (more than the average person), a dealer doesn't want the negative publicity and will appease you to avoid it.


You are dead wrong if you remotely think that most of the sellers wont refund you a full amount, specially, nowadays where nothing sells the way it used to be.
Still I will repeat, yet again:wall:, look for yourself if you don't believe me, all save one of the sites I found have a buyer responsible for shipping policy clearly spelled out for all to read.


... then better just dont say anything and at least you don't look like an ass .
That would be;
“Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.” Abraham Lincoln

Sorry, but you lost me on that one... Seems the other way around from here.{D;P



Bill
 

Fran

Arachnoprince
Old Timer
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
1,533
I too, can be tenacious...:D



The only reason I "have it" with you is because YOU started it with me in your post #18. No axe-to-grind or anything like that from me, nothing personal (yet).
I actually wasn't even going to respond to you because, like it/believe it or not, you have a reputation (with some) here of being very difficult to get a point across to and never giving up once you get going.
IMHO..., no citations, no papers...



Yes, I was mistaken there, after actually looking at all those dealer websites (unlike you who is still just guessing) I found that 'buyer responsible for shipping' is the norm/standard. I knew it was very prevalent but didn't realize the extent of it.
That and originally I was thinking more in terms of the hobby overall and not just the major dealers but the dealers are really the ones who set the standards that many others then cite/follow.




If that's who I think it is, he has recently changed the website but used to have policies so complicated and deceptive that any sleazy lawyer would have been proud of it.



Please show us all where, your experiences would be much appreciated.

Just for clarification, I'm only referring to dealers who have established sites, I have no way of knowing what is the individual policy of every hobbyist who sells a T.



You make a lot of 'noise' here when you're unhappy about something (more than the average person), a dealer doesn't want the negative publicity and will appease you to avoid it.




Still I will repeat, yet again:wall:, look for yourself if you don't believe me, all save one of the sites I found have a buyer responsible for shipping policy clearly spelled out for all to read.




That would be;
“Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.” Abraham Lincoln

Sorry, but you lost me on that one... Seems the other way around from here.{D;P



Bill
See, seems like the pot is calling the kettle black.:rolleyes:

First, no one started talking about dealers only, but the regular norm in general.
Since there are more personal collectors than dealers,and most of the personal collector/hobbyst will offer you the full refund (and if you dont think so then you have been out of tune for some time) , via simple ecuation; times 2 divided by the square root of 1985, equals that the regular procedure would be refunding THE FULL AMOUNT, by mayority of examples.

The thing is that it doesnt matter. We were stating what we thought the OP should have gotten. You think otherwise? Fine.
Besides, my beloved hard headed friend...do you really think that because you keep repeating what you think is would that make me change my mind?

Who cares what DEALERS do since we are talking of the regular norm.The OP never asked "what is the procedure with the dealers?" . No, he didnt.


So maybe in this ocasion you are the one who should just relax a bit, state your opinion and if it doesnt match with mine then fine. But please dont loose sleep over it.
And im not being personal..."Yet".
 

Great Basin Ben

Arachnosquire
Joined
Oct 2, 2010
Messages
86
I think Fan & Bill need to go BOWLING together!:razz:

It seems like there's really NO (hard in stone) way of handling LAG. For some, it seems like all you get is a refund, or more insulting "credit":barf: (MINUS HUGE Shipping fees), while others (Apparently both PROfessional Dealer, as well as hobbyist breeder alike), are more inclined to go the extra mile, and simply replace, or refund completely, to make your encounter with them the most positive one they can.:worship:

The most important thing I've been able to take away from this experience, is to RIGOROUSLY QUESTION, what the individual, breeder, or Dealer's "Live Arrival Guarantee" exactly means. So after (4) pages of posts now, the only TANGIBLE thing I can actually say I've gleaned, is that "YOU GOTTA ASK, what LAG means!" It's ALWAYS going to be different.

The other positive thing here, is that MANY of who who've contributed thus far, have expressed your willingness to refund completely or replace, and I've added ALL of you to a special place in my Tarantula keeping WORLD. If you haven't already, you guys will probably be hearing from me about adding me to your mailing lists.:clap:

That goes for you BOTH Bill, and Fran.;P
 

Fran

Arachnoprince
Old Timer
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
1,533
Thats indeed the best you can do. Ask everything before purchasing, and keep the messages and e mails.

If the seller doesnt keep whats promised, then hit a bad review and you wont see 99% of us buying from him. :)

Im sorry for the loss too, by the way. It does sucks, more than actually the stupid money.
 

Hobo

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Staff member
Joined
Jul 27, 2009
Messages
2,208
A seller who gives a full refund including shipping costs for damaged goods from the carrier.

Or

A seller who only refunds the cost of the spider.

Whichever way is right or wrong, who would you rather do buisness with?
That's the whole point of a review. So other buyers can decide for themselves. Stop posting here, and just post a review. This thread has all the evidence you'll need for it, and you can still link it if/when it gets locked.
 

Zoltan

Cult Leader
Old Timer
Joined
May 20, 2008
Messages
1,465
Moderator's Note

I've removed the last few pages of the thread. This started out as a discussion about what Live Arrival Guarantee means or should mean, but since the identity of the seller has become known and both the seller and the buyer began discussing/commenting on the transaction, the thread turned into a review thread with discussion outside the Reviews section. We do not allow comments and discussion of reviews, especially by parties not involved in the transaction, so this thread will die now. Ben, please read my private message.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top