What EXACTLY should LAG mean

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Great Basin Ben

Arachnosquire
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Oct 2, 2010
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86
Hi there everyone,

I recently had a fairly unpleasant experience, buying a new T here online. The Tarantula in question was $20, and I paid $36 for Overnight LAG service from Utah, to here in Reno, NV. While $36 seemed excessive, I do understand that the cost for shipping supplies, can sometimes be expensive, so I made no worry of that. The shipper was FED-Ex, which is only germaine to this story, because the specimen was DOA, and should any of you had similar experiences with FED-Ex, I thought it worth mentioning.

So as eluded to, the specimen, arrived looking like this:


And by the looks of the puddle underneath the abdomen, there was some sort of rupture, or injury to the spider:


Which inevitably led to this photo:


So here's the rub. I PAID for LIVE ARRIVAL GUARANTEE, and in fact the spider DID NOT arrive alive. So rather than REPLACE the dead specimen, or offer me a full refund, I was given the option to have a $20 store credit with them, towards any future purchases.

I was then subsequently told: "... I'm terribly sorry, you aren't the only one that pays high dollar for shipping for nothing," ...and was basically told SORRY the spider arrived dead, the best I can do, is give you, your $20 bucks back for the price of the spider, and tough cookies on the shipping, REGARDLESS OF THE GUARANTEE I MADE TO YOU.

In this kind of situation, wouldn't protocol, just be to send me a new spider? Is the burden of Live Arrival always subjuct to the buyer paying for every penny of shipping, EVEN the replacement, meant to fulfill the obligation of "Live Arrival"? The $20 that was subsequently refunded to my Paypal account, NEITHER replaces the dead spider I received, NOR does it account for the $36 i paid, in order to INSURE that I would be compensated in the event of a DEAD specimen being delivered.

Why do I feel like I got TOTALLY SCREWED HERE???:mad:
 

CAK

Arachnoknight
Old Timer
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Nov 17, 2009
Messages
299
Me as a small time seller would eat the "FULL" cost. That is just good business. Anyone that sells ANYTHING occasionally eats some costs we don't like to.

If I bought a camera online from say... Amazon and it arrived broken, they would ship me a new one at NO charge. If they didn't have one in stock, they would refund my ENTIRE charge.


Now, if the seller specifically spelled out that LAG didn't include a refund of the price of shipping, then it's kind of a tough cookies, but then I wouldn't purchase from them or.. I would be aware of the possibility.

Joe - CAK
 

codykrr

Arachnoking
Old Timer
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Sep 22, 2008
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3,113
Well first off this sucks. sorry for your loss.

Second. that is why I wont use FED EX. because its cost damn near double for crappier service.

Also, yes, IMHO LAG is for the cost of the tarantula only. Shipping is not included.

So if your first order dies in transit and arrives DOA. and the seller had LAG, and it met their criteria for LAG guarantee(IE- no delays on delivery, signerd for on first attempt..ect) then they would only have to refund cost of the tarantula. It would then be on the buyer, to come up with shipping cost.

This is my opinion and also how the whole LAG thing has worked for me in the past.
 

Fran

Arachnoprince
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That is RIDICULOUS.

Anybody with a .1% of integrity will refund you the full amount. If they offer LAG,that means eaither you replace the spider or you get your money back PERIOD. Unless PREVIOUSLY accorded otherwise.

I have a HUGE FEELING i know who the seller is. Let me trhow up a little bit, and ill be back in a minute.

If the seller doesnt do right to you, I would put the biggest negative review this site has ever seen.
 

Chris_Skeleton

Arachnoprince
Old Timer
Joined
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Messages
1,310
That is RIDICULOUS.

Anybody with a .1% of integrity will refund you the full amount. If they offer LAG,that means eaither you replace the spider or you get your money back PERIOD. Unless PREVIOUSLY accorded otherwise.

I have a HUGE FEELING i know who the seller is. Let me trhow up a little bit, and ill be back in a minute.

If the seller doesnt do right to you, I would put the biggest negative review this site has ever seen.
+1. You should get the FULL amount refunded to you. Live arrival was guaranteed. If he will not refund you the money then you should get a replacement with free shipping.

You purchased a spider and entered a contract with the seller. The seller guaranteed live arrival. The spider arrived dead, sellers end of the contract was broke. You are due full refund.

Unless it is stated that he doesn't cover shipping refunds

Take it up with paypal and file a claim.

Sorry for your loss. What kind of spider was that?
 

gmrpnk21

Arachnobaron
Joined
Nov 1, 2010
Messages
319
That is RIDICULOUS.

Anybody with a .1% of integrity will refund you the full amount. If they offer LAG,that means eaither you replace the spider or you get your money back PERIOD. Unless PREVIOUSLY accorded otherwise.

I have a HUGE FEELING i know who the seller is. Let me trhow up a little bit, and ill be back in a minute.

If the seller doesnt do right to you, I would put the biggest negative review this site has ever seen.
I agree. LAG should mean the seller makes it right by replacing the spider at his expense, or refunding the FULL amount. Please pm me the seller's name so I can avoid him.
 

Moltar

ArachnoGod
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Apr 11, 2007
Messages
5,450
That's messed up. Post a negative review and link it here.
 

losct2381

Arachnosquire
Joined
Dec 2, 2010
Messages
76
who was that seller so i never ever ever let myself or anyone else order from them. witch i really wont anyway i got the best breeder on the east coast within 30 min of me. so i just go pick up what i want. but i would really like to know who it was so i never make that mistake
 

Carrot

Arachnopeon
Joined
Jul 22, 2007
Messages
26
I’ve never shipped a tarantula before, but would a properly packed tarantula be able to injure its abdomen like that (barring it trying to molt or something)?

While I think it would be the right thing to refund regardless (unless previously stated he doesn't cover shipping), you should definitely get a full refund if it died in transit due to being packed inadequately.
 
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billopelma

Arachnolord
Old Timer
Joined
Sep 20, 2005
Messages
604
You people are all living in spider fantasy land...
I'm not trying to judge right or wrong/fair or unfair here but just what is the actual reality.

What *exactly* a LAG means is simply/only what was agreed upon by the buyer and seller, most dealers will have it under 'shipping and returns' on their websites.

In my (way in the) past transactions with dealers, most (not all) have standard terms that shipping is NOT included in a LAG. Usually states something like 'shipping costs are buyers responsibility' or 'will be replaced on next order'. Some don't even offer replacement or refunds but only credit and some go even further to some convoluted, downright sleazy 'gotcha's', if you're enough of a sucker to go there.

LAG on any of those terms only makes sense if all the bugs are worth substantially more than the shipping. Even on a large dollar order, if one bug that cost $10 comes in dead your not likely to pay $30 to get a replacement but that's how it often goes.

It's why I don't buy like that anymore.

Bottom line, whether with a dealer or private sale, make sure you understand LAG terms before the purchase because there IS NO STANDARD.


Bill
 

Great Basin Ben

Arachnosquire
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Oct 2, 2010
Messages
86
Bottom line, whether with a dealer or private sale, make sure you understand LAG terms before the purchase because there IS NO STANDARD.


Bill
Bill you bring up a valid point, and moving forward, these will likely be some of my FIRST questions, so as to have everything on the level playing field, UP FRONT...

That said, I had a Seller (SouthwestInvert) not only replace a DOA, but ALSO INCLUDED several freebies, for my time, trouble, WHILE ALSO paying for the shipping for the replacements. This is how I plan to operating my Tarantula selling, (once I begin),and simply thought that "Live Arrival Guarantee", meant just this, GUARANTEE. I know what they say about assuming, and YES, this whole experience, has made me feel like a truly bummed out "A@#"...

Like I said though, I now have NO spider, and am out an additional $36, and to me, a "Guarantee" this doe NOT make. As pointed out by a fellow Arachnophile, When you pay for the Guarantee, you're paying for THAT, (a guarantee), not Tarantula Insurance..

I guess life is ALL about these kinds of learning experiences, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't EXTREMELY bummed, by how this turned out.
 

Mez

Arachnoknight
Joined
Nov 17, 2010
Messages
215
Something i dont understand..
How poorly packed are these Ts? I mean, ive received plenty from online, packed perfectly with no DOAs, from various suppliers.
Once, the box had blatently been dropped and had caved in, the spiders were fine due to the excellent packaging.
Ive also seen a youtube videos of people unpacking spiders in the USA, even if there was just one, the packaging was incredible.
What sort of container/padding/styro was used?
Sorry for your loss. Anybody worth buying from will refund you, but if it was packaging at fault id be perhaps (very) reluctant to buy again.
 
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pouchedrat

Arachnolord
Old Timer
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Aug 17, 2008
Messages
614
I'm sure I know who the person is as well, had a similar issue over a year ago exactly like this.

good luck, try to get whatever you can in store credit so it's not a total waste, then avoid the dealer later down the road, at all costs, no matter how cheap and pretty their spiders are... i know i didn't, lol...
 

billopelma

Arachnolord
Old Timer
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Sep 20, 2005
Messages
604
Believe me, I learned about the many nuances of LAG's the hard way too.
Never assume...

I'm sure there are still some good dealers out there and to be fair, it's not an easy business and it's a big risk to be shipping at all this time of year. I would still bet though, if you look at LAG terms of current dealers, the majority don't cover return shipping. It's like a dirty little secret:rolleyes:...

I wouldn't be shipping a $20 bug to anyone right now, knowing it could cost me $50 to replace it. I have a large number of rufilata, incei, versicolor and soon platyomma I'd love to move but will wait for spring because I don't like the risks of winter shipping.



Bill
 

Fran

Arachnoprince
Old Timer
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
1,533
Billopelma:

There ARE certain standars understood in this hobby.

As I said, unless the seller and the buyer agree to void LAG or not to pay
for shipping on that guarantee,
the standar is : The spider arrives dead on an Express overnight shipping=You get another t or your FULL MONEY BACK.


I dont live in any spider fantasy land. Its just how this works when you do the things right.

The OP was screwed over, and he should put a review since he is clearly not happy with the situation.


On a personal note: I have sent hundreds of spiders. The last one unfortunately arrived DOA because THE CARRIER messed up and deliver 2 days later. I refunded the full amount no questions asked.

Thats what I do and a smiliar deal is what I would expect. If someone is not gonna offer me similar conditions that person wont get my bussines.

That "store credit" CERTAIN dealers do is simply an INSULT.

I buy a Xhenesthis, it arrives DOA, IS NOT OK that you tell me "oh, You get store credit...and heres the stock for the store credit: G.roseas".
INSULTING.
 

codykrr

Arachnoking
Old Timer
Joined
Sep 22, 2008
Messages
3,113
You people are all living in spider fantasy land...
I'm not trying to judge right or wrong/fair or unfair here but just what is the actual reality.

What *exactly* a LAG means is simply/only what was agreed upon by the buyer and seller, most dealers will have it under 'shipping and returns' on their websites.

In my (way in the) past transactions with dealers, most (not all) have standard terms that shipping is NOT included in a LAG. Usually states something like 'shipping costs are buyers responsibility' or 'will be replaced on next order'. Some don't even offer replacement or refunds but only credit and some go even further to some convoluted, downright sleazy 'gotcha's', if you're enough of a sucker to go there.

LAG on any of those terms only makes sense if all the bugs are worth substantially more than the shipping. Even on a large dollar order, if one bug that cost $10 comes in dead your not likely to pay $30 to get a replacement but that's how it often goes.

It's why I don't buy like that anymore.

Bottom line, whether with a dealer or private sale, make sure you understand LAG terms before the purchase because there IS NO STANDARD.


Bill
^ this is the way I have always understood it.

While yeah it would be nice if they would cover shipping for the replacement. Like I said, every dealer I have made transactions with did not pay shipping to replace the spider.

IMHO LAG is the guarantee the *SPIDER* or what ever. will arrive alive. if not the seller should refund the cost of *THE SPIDER* or replace *THE SPIDER* with another. not sure where you all think its right to make the seller cover cost of shipping....other than good business practice. But in my experience this doesnt happen much...if any.

Remember this is a chance you take ordering live animals.

Also, since everyone apparently claims fed ex has a "live animal" policy, the FED EX should have some sort of guarantee the animal arrives alive.

That is unless people are just saying fed ex ships live animals...just so they can justify using them.(because I hate fed ex with a passion) I wont order from certain dealers because they only ship fed ex.
 

billopelma

Arachnolord
Old Timer
Joined
Sep 20, 2005
Messages
604
I dont live in any spider fantasy land. Its just how this works when you do the things right.
Like I said in my first post, I'm not saying it's right, it's just the way it is WITH MOST DEALERS. I guess you've been lucky not to have run afoul of it.
No matter what you think is fair, THERE IS STILL NO STANDARD. Go ahead and do an inventory of dealers who sell here and show me how many state that they cover return shipping. A 'standard' would be, by default, what the majority do...


Bill
 
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