What arboreal is good

[carnewesada]

I have a spare acrylic arboreal enclosure that’s 4x4x7.
I’ve got Avicularia Avicularia and Caribena Versicolor.
Curious what others would recommend as to a different arboreal T to put in there

 

[ladyratri]

My wishlist for third (and fourth) arboreal is currently Y. diversipes and P. irminia...

 

[viper69]

How long have you owned Ts, that would help.

 

[carnewesada]

How long have you owned Ts, that would help.

3 months. However I also own panther chameleons, scorpions, and Amazon tree boas.

 

[Pmurinushmacla]

3 months. However I also own panther chameleons, scorpions, and Amazon tree boas.

Personally id wait and make sure you have avic husbandry down before adding another. Id stick to avics or the species removed from the avic genus, unless I'm forgetting about some other nw arboreal. My favorites (dont own any avics) are a. Minatrix and a. metallica(whatever morphtype it is now).

 

[viper69]

3 months. However I also own panther chameleons, scorpions, and Amazon tree boas.

I owned chams- nice choice!

3 months isn't very long, you should wait, and gain experience in keeping what you have.

Been keeping herps for eons, not a single thing from them helped me with Ts except where to buy supplies.

 

[carnewesada]

I owned chams- nice choice!

3 months isn't very long, you should wait, and gain experience in keeping what you have.

Been keeping herps for eons, not a single thing from them helped me with Ts except where to buy supplies.

Nice a fellow cham owner! I think the hardest thing I’ve had to dial in was the temps/humidity for my Amazon tree boas. But a timer and temp/humidity controller solved all that.
Anywho, so far out of my collection, I’d say the 3 OW Ts I have are the most exciting. Definitely the best eaters by far. Was hoping maybe an OW arboreal

 

[viper69]

Nice a fellow cham owner! I think the hardest thing I’ve had to dial in was the temps/humidity for my Amazon tree boas. But a timer and temp/humidity controller solved all that.
Anywho, so far out of my collection, I’d say the 3 OW Ts I have are the most exciting. Definitely the best eaters by far. Was hoping maybe an OW arboreal

There are plenty of NWs that are excellent eaters, not all OWs are great eaters either.
For sure on ATBs

 

[nicodimus22]

I have a spare acrylic arboreal enclosure that’s 4x4x7.
I’ve got Avicularia Avicularia and Caribena Versicolor.
Curious what others would recommend as to a different arboreal T to put in there

So, an enclosure of that size is too small for any adult arboreal T that I can think of, although it may be very good for juveniles until they outgrow it, so it's certainly useful at different stages.

I'm also a little uncomfortable with the thought process here. You should buy the container based on what the animal you have (or plan to have) will need, not "I have this enclosure, what T should I put in there?" Just my opinion.

If you know that you want a P. cambridgei, for example, you know that they get up around 6-7 inches as adults, so you'll need to have 3 or 4 different containers as it grows, with the largest one being something appropriate for something that big. I put mine in a 12 X 12 X 18 enclosure and it seems about right. With most avics that are more like 4-5 inches as adults, something smaller like a 8 X 8 X 12 will suffice.

 

[YungRasputin]

with 3 months experience with arboreals you could stick with what you’re doing but if you want to get a new specimen that’s a little bit more of a challenge but still doesn’t have potent venom that would help broaden your skill set i would say try the Tapinauchenius genus - they’re speed is v much like OW arboreals and their venom level is still within the range you’re currently at - plus they’re gorgeous

you would need to upgrade them to a larger enclosure than 4x4x7 as they develop of course but that would be good for a sling

 

[YungRasputin]

I'm also a little uncomfortable with the thought process here. You should buy the container based on what the animal you have (or plan to have) will need, not "I have this enclosure, what T should I put in there?" Just my opinion.

why would obtain an animal prior to having the means to properly house it first tho

If you know that you want a P. cambridgei, for example, you know that they get up around 6-7 inches as adults, so you'll need to have 3 or 4 different containers as it grows, with the largest one being something appropriate for something that big. I put mine in a 12 X 12 X 18 enclosure and it seems about right. With most avics that are more like 4-5 inches as adults, something smaller like a 8 X 8 X 12 will suffice.

you don’t need to rehouse them that many times and i would argue that the Russian doll method causes unnecessary stress and contact with the keeper - you can keep them in an appropriately sized enclosure until they have become properly established (roughly 2-3 inches DLS in my estimation) - i have been going even further and been keeping 1 inch sling in adult enclosures to mimic their natural lifecycles with much success for example

i don’t see any reason why they couldn’t just keep a sling in a 4x4x7 until they’re established and then directly transferring them to their final enclosure

 

[nicodimus22]

why would obtain an animal prior to having the means to properly house it first tho

You don't. You have a sling container ready, as that's usually how they are usually available. But, they grow and you need to eventually get them larger containers before rehousing.

you don’t need to rehouse them that many times and i would argue that the Russian doll method causes unnecessary stress and contact with the keeper - you can keep them in an appropriately sized enclosure until they have become properly established (roughly 2-3 inches DLS in my estimation) - i have been going even further and been keeping 1 inch sling in adult enclosures to mimic their natural lifecycles with much success for example

i don’t see any reason why they couldn’t just keep a sling in a 4x4x7 until they’re established and then directly transferring them to their final enclosure

2 or 3 rehouses in a T's lifetime is pretty typical. I'm not familiar with the Russian Doll method. I simply put a catch cup over them, carefully slide the lid on, and then release them into the new enclosure. There is zero contact with the keeper.

Also, tarantulas don't get "stressed" the same way mammals, birds, etc do, so you don't need to worry about doing 2 or 3 rehouses over a number of years. They are very hardy animals, and tolerate the occasional disturbance well.

I guess you could put a 2-3 inch T in its adult enclosure, although I don't personally do that, because it makes it more difficult for them to come across prey and water dishes, and it also seems to make them grow slower and hide more. It's also kind of a waste of shelf space, as most Ts will just find a corner or a hide that they like and set up shop there, ignoring the rest of the large enclosure.

 

[Pmurinushmacla]

with 3 months experience with arboreals you could stick with what you’re doing but if you want to get a new specimen that’s a little bit more of a challenge but still doesn’t have potent venom that would help broaden your skill set i would say try the Tapinauchenius genus - they’re speed is v much like OW arboreals and their venom level is still within the range you’re currently at - plus they’re gorgeous

you would need to upgrade them to a larger enclosure than 4x4x7 as they develop of course but that would be good for a sling

I disagree so much with getting tappies as the next step in arboreals. Tappies are literally the fastest arboreals I know of, and many members here who own them agree. Id say the next step in advancing would be psalms, especially since he has ow fossorials. Slower than tappies, somewhat stronger venom than most other nws, but theyre not quite in the ow venom category.

 

[YungRasputin]

I disagree so much with getting tappies as the next step in arboreals. Tappies are literally the fastest arboreals I know of, and many members here who own them agree. Id say the next step in advancing would be psalms, especially since he has ow fossorials. Slower than tappies, somewhat stronger venom than most other nws, but theyre not quite in the ow venom category.

dealing with speed, when new, is much more preferable in my estimation than dealing with higher venom levels - the Psalmopoeus genus, particularly, Irminia + Cambridgei are at the top of NW tarantula venom - typical symptoms include vomiting for 6+ hours among other things - why would working with a specimen who has some decent venom *and* is defensive, unpredictable and can itself be extremely fast/bolty be preferable over a specimen who’s just fast? like adult Psalms can be an absolute handful

simply put, i can’t think of a better specimen for beginner arboreal keepers since the speed is going to train said keepers to be able to deal with OW arboreals who are all perfectly capable of teleporting eg: an H. mac can be right in front of you and then disappear in, literally, the blink of an eye

from the above comments - the said they’ve been keep arachnids for 3 months and have some experience with snakes, chameleons, etc - i did not see anything about already keeping any OW species

 

[YungRasputin]

You don't. You have a sling container ready, as that's usually how they are usually available. But, they grow and you need to eventually get them larger containers before rehousing.

ok

2 or 3 rehouses in a T's lifetime is pretty typical. I'm not familiar with the Russian Doll method. I simply put a catch cup over them, carefully slide the lid on, and then release them into the new enclosure. There is zero contact with the keeper.

the “Russian doll method” is my own terminology for the common practices which you describe which i disagree with for the aforementioned reasons - contact meaning intimate interactions such as cupping, transferring, etc

Also, tarantulas don't get "stressed" the same way mammals, birds, etc do, so you don't need to worry about doing 2 or 3 rehouses over a number of years. They are very hardy animals, and tolerate the occasional disturbance well.

studies would indicate that they do indeed experience stress (chemical reactions caused by external stimuli) and, it should be the goal to minimize this in every way possible rather than leaning on their unearthly resiliency

I guess you could put a 2-3 inch T in its adult enclosure, although I don't personally do that, because it makes it more difficult for them to come across prey and water dishes, and it also seems to make them grow slower and hide more. It's also kind of a waste of shelf space, as most Ts will just find a corner or a hide that they like and set up shop there, ignoring the rest of the large enclosure.

it has been my experience that they develop and behave more naturally in this way so yes, slings will be more reclusive and bolty than juvenile and adults who will be more bold, defensive and territorial because that’s how the animal is in the wild

i have not had any problems with specimens finding water or prey items - crickets are p dumb and will often walk right up to the specimen in question and as long as you provide a water dish and mist the sides of the enclosure regularly, they’re not going to have any problems accessing water (plus a good chunk of their hydration and fluids come from their prey anyway)

I would also say that arachnids use more space than we think and it’s not just about the immediate space that makes up their den but the dynamic and relationship between the primary space (den) and the secondary space (rest of the enclosure) and how those interact

personally, i privilege bigger enclosures over more specimens

edit: i would also add that captivity is going to naturally produce different behavior patterns in arachnids i.e. they are in ideal conditions with zero chance of predation - i would say, in my experience, this makes them use more space than they normally would in the wild eg: my A. avicularia, S. cal, H. hottentotta, H. arizonesis, C. minax, etc are reliably out all the time, exploring, hunting, etc

 

[Pmurinushmacla]

dealing with speed, when new, is much more preferable in my estimation than dealing with higher venom levels - the Psalmopoeus genus, particularly, Irminia + Cambridgei are at the top of NW tarantula venom - typical symptoms include vomiting for 6+ hours among other things - why would working with a specimen who has some decent venom *and* is defensive, unpredictable and can itself be extremely fast/bolty be preferable over a specimen who’s just fast? like adult Psalms can be an absolute handful

simply put, i can’t think of a better specimen for beginner arboreal keepers since the speed is going to train said keepers to be able to deal with OW arboreals who are all perfectly capable of teleporting eg: an H. mac can be right in front of you and then disappear in, literally, the blink of an eye

from the above comments - the said they’ve been keep arachnids for 3 months and have some experience with snakes, chameleons, etc - i did not see anything about already keeping any OW species

He is already taking that venom risk to an even greater degree with the 3 ows he owns (he did say he owns ows, see post #7), and tappies are everything you claim psalmos to be, besides maybe defensive. And even then, defensiveness is much easier to work with than blinding speed and unpredictability.

I just dont see how you could recommend a tappie as a "trainer arboreal" when they're the kings of speed in this hobby, it makes no sense to me.

 

[YungRasputin]

He is already taking that venom risk to an even greater degree with the 3 ows he owns (he did say he owns ows, see post #7), and tappies are everything you claim psalmos to be, besides maybe defensive. And even then, defensiveness is much easier to work with than blinding speed and unpredictability.

I just dont see how you could recommend a tappie as a "trainer arboreal" when they're the kings of speed in this hobby, it makes no sense to me.

i recommend tappies because it builds valuable skills (with minimal risk to the keeper) that will come in handy later on - particularly given threads like this where 3 months in and people are already recommending Psalms, in a hobby which regularly gives p ridiculous recommendations like “oh you’ve been keeping for 1 month and have zero skills? go ahead and get 12 pokies”

if all of these “flawless transfers” are indeed, flawless, what’s the issue? there’s a greater margin of error when it comes to tappies vs psalms - i actually think the pushback on my recommendation is a bit weird tbh

also not all OW species are the same and said “3 OWs” were not specified - a C. darlingi for example, has relatively mild venom, is easy to work with and is a good beginner OW, comparative to an S. cal or Pokie which are not

 

[Pmurinushmacla]

i recommend tappies because it builds valuable skills (with minimal risk to the keeper) that will come in handy later on - particularly given threads like this where 3 months in and people are already recommending Psalms, in a hobby which regularly gives p ridiculous recommendations like “oh you’ve been keeping for 1 month and have zero skills? go ahead and get 12 pokies”

if all of these “flawless transfers” are indeed, flawless, what’s the issue? there’s a greater margin of error when it comes to tappies vs psalms - i actually think the pushback on my recommendation is a bit weird tbh

also not all OW species are the same and said “3 OWs” were not specified - a C. darlingi for example, has relatively mild venom, is easy to work with and is a good beginner OW, comparative to an S. cal or Pokie which are not

Let me preface this by saying the next step should be psalms imo, BUT op needs to wait to get husbandry down with his current ows and avics. I dont think op should get a psalm until he has owned his current ts for a good period of time. Nobody else suggested he pick up a psalm at this time either.

Speed is a risk to the t. The t bolts the wrong way and suddenly its outside the enclosure. The owner cant get it inside the enclosure and what do you know, its dead in the closet 3 months later because they lost it. Plus a faster t makes getting tagged a lot easier, makes escapes easier, etc.

I never said anything about flawless rehousings, you're talking to the wrong person. I will say that with proper research and prep, most owners should never experience a bite, even if they do experience a mistake/an escape. And I will add this, and most may disagree: Id rather an owner get bit than a T escape and die. The T didnt ask to be kept in captivity.

Yes I know, however ows overall have stronger venom and are quicker than most nws.

 

[goonius]

I disagree so much with getting tappies as the next step in arboreals. Tappies are literally the fastest arboreals I know of, and many members here who own them agree. Id say the next step in advancing would be psalms, especially since he has ow fossorials. Slower than tappies, somewhat stronger venom than most other nws, but theyre not quite in the ow venom category.

I got a C versicolor, T violaceus, P. Irminia and an A. germani within a couple months span as my first arboreals. I read a lot in advance, knew of their speed and planned accordingly when rehousing or doing enclosure maintenance. Although, creating an enclosure that the spiders feel secure in is key to avoiding scenarios where they would bolt anywhere but their web tube/burrow. I also find front opening enclosures make for easier maintenance.

As for the OP’s recommendation, any of the spiders listed will still need better ventilation than the Zilla enclosure offers without modification to increase ventilation — I assume this is the one you are talking about @carnewesada? We honestly aren’t using those Zilla enclosures for anything at the moment, though we have successfully housed jumping spiders in them in the past. (We have also had one jumping spider escape) I really wish Zilla had done better with ventilation on these enclosures.

 

[Pmurinushmacla]

I got a C versicolor, T violaceus, P. Irminia and an A. germani within a couple months span as my first arboreals. I read a lot in advance, knew of their speed and planned accordingly when rehousing or doing enclosure maintenance. Although, creating an enclosure that the spiders feel secure in is key to avoiding scenarios where they would bolt anywhere but their web tube/burrow. I also find front opening enclosures make for easier maintenance.

As for the OP’s recommendation, any of the spiders listed will still need better ventilation than the Zilla enclosure offers without modification to increase ventilation — I assume this is the one you are talking about @carnewesada? We honestly aren’t using those Zilla enclosures for anything at the moment, though we have successfully housed jumping spiders in them in the past. (We have also had one jumping spider escape) I really wish Zilla had done better with ventilation on these enclosures.

I got a pokie as my second t and an obt as my third. There are people like you and I that can jump right in if they do proper research and prep. I wont suggest them to people right off the bat though, as its hard to judge competence online.