videos: gigeanta robusta/viridicoris eating mice

[Scorp guy]

To mori

i can see why you might get mad with me for what i said, i dont support nor debate against feeding live mice. even if it is for enjoyment. the mouse was gonna be fed or eaten by something sooner or later am i wrong? but when theres a post with some good videos on it, there is always somone getting angry over it...they can express all they want, but why not make another thread about it? its dumb starting a huge fight like now, about 2 mice dying, ever think how many mice are fed to snakes and lizards etc. a day? im guessing quite a few....

 

[BajanBastard]

Dude i posted you're vids on a bodybuilding forum i'm over at here is one of the comments:
"what is that thing? Is that some kind of gene <EDIT> or some kinna mutant <EDIT>?"

LOL!!

 

[Thoth]

To quote Tool's "Disgustipated" "Life feeds on life, feeds on life, feeds on life, feeds on ... This is necessary."

That said, in the second video if it wasn't for the intervention of the keeper, the was a very good chance that the most could have severely injured/kill that pede. Can he feed his pede whatever he wants? Yes, but there are potential consequences. Was it the smartest thing in the world to do? probably not.

 

[Henry Kane]

Makes me wonder if anyone here believes that the cows, chickens pigs or sea life we consume everyday feel no pain, stress or anxiety while being raised and eventually herded into the slaughter rooms?

Gary

 

[Steven]

the second one is a real beautifull scolopendrid :drool: :drool: :drool:


would be a waste to see that one been damaged by a mouse :evil:
i have no probs in feeding mice,... but scolopendrids also take on dead meat,...so why take the risk ? i would kill the mice myself and cut them open so the precious centipedes only have to concentrate on eating instead of killing.

 

[Cirith Ungol]

Why don't we make a sticky with where everybody can battle out the argument about feeding verts to inverts. Same argument every single time something like this comes up and absolutely no difference between any of them :wall:

The videos - Interesting, your choice, if gone wrong -> your problem

 

[Waryur]

Hi my name is "fill in the blank" i have a problem with killing. The way i do it is ok, if anyone else does anything different i get really mad. I like mice but dont care about crickets. I own a really nice pair of leather boots and don't mind eating steak or lobster. Eating birthday cake made from eggs that could have grown up to be a life dosn't bother me either. I am a huge hypocrate and i get my jollies of posts like these, i roam these forums. I wish my argument could be logically based like "mice could harm your invert" but it isn't, in fact i havn't really thought about how silly i sound. I have also pissed off waryur. Waryur see's my posts and every other one like mine, he is board by the routine. Waryur thinks I should join green peace and live in a raft stoping japanease whaling boats far far away from a computer.

 

[nightbreed]

Yawn, please please go read up on the voluminous threads on Pain.
Dont go stating it doesnt happen in nature, because I am quite sure it can and does...Did you know Avics eat bats? (Noooo that cant happen in nature )

lol you really missed the point didn't you.
He wasn't trying to say that pedes dont eat verts in the wild - of course they do - what he was trying to say was putting the mouse in an enclosed space with no chance of escape was nothing like nature.
Just watch the second vid, in the wild that mouse would of escaped easily, it needed to be enclosed and prodded towards the pede with a feather before it became lunch, not natural at all. :wall:

Why don't we make a sticky with where everybody can battle out the argument about feeding verts to inverts. Same argument every single time something like this comes up and absolutely no difference between any of them

The videos - Interesting, your choice, if gone wrong -> your problem

I agree with you to a point, but every new member doesn't read every sticky, so if nobody put in the opposite point of view in these threads and they were just full of positive comments, noobies may get the impression that feeding live verts is a normal everyday practice for all invert keepers, not the case at all.

Hi my name is "fill in the blank" i have a problem with killing. The way i do it is ok, if anyone else does anything different i get really mad. I like mice but dont care about crickets. I own a really nice pair of leather boots and don't mind eating steak or lobster. Eating birthday cake made from eggs that could have grown up to be a life dosn't bother me either. I am a huge hypocrate and i get my jollies of posts like these, i roam these forums. I wish my argument could be logically based like "mice could harm your invert" but it isn't, in fact i havn't really thought about how silly i sound. I have also pissed off waryur. Waryur see's my posts and every other one like mine, he is board by the routine. Waryur thinks I should join green peace and live in a raft stoping japanease whaling boats far far away from a computer.

My Dog lol
Right, where do I start?

First, I don't particularly care about mice, I just have a problem with arrogant humans deriving pleasure from another animals suffering, I don't understand why people find it so amusing and to be honest I'm glad I'm not wired that way.

Second, yes, I wear leather yes, I eat meat, but as I've said before I eat organic meat which is slaughtered - to my knowledge - in the most humane way possible, if I found out they were slowly torturing the cows to death then I would stop eating it in a heartbeat, plus I don't pop down to my local abattoir with a video camera and a bag of popcorn.
I don't really see how this is relevant anyway, I'm not against feeding animals verts or eating meat I'm against unneccessary cruelty, and its already been mentioned that pedes will take dead meat so why not pre-kill? Oh yeah because its not as much fun :wall:

Just out of curiosity, whats your thoughts on bull baiting?

Third, eggs? LMAO you do realize that most of those eggs are unfertilized don't you? I kept ducks and chickens for years and we never had a drake, yet those ducks kept laying eggs do you think if I'd of incubated those eggs they would of hatched? Its a good job you're not protesting against abortion, you'd be against women having a period lol

I don't get my "jollies" from posts like these but even if I did I'd rather find amusment and pleasure in dabating with people than from watching animals kill each other for >self edit< and giggles.

Have you thought how silly you sound? Our arguments are based in logic, there are many solid reasons to not feed live verts, I have yet to hear one good counter argument.

Anyway thats me finished in this thread, I try to stay out of these now, honestly I do, but I was bored last night and I'd had a few drinks, so I got sucked in
I posted the above stuff to clear up my position now I'm outta hear.

Sorry guys

Take care.

 

[Waryur]

Retort

First – How can you assume that everyone who feeds their inverts / pets mice is doing it for some sort of sick pleasure? How can you say they find this, “amusing”. That’s an unqualified generalization that you are creating based on your own false pretense. Simplified “your creating conclusions from non-existent evidence.

Second – As I stated you’re ok with killing as long as it’s done your way. How is feeding a mouse to any other predator unnecessary cruelty? Let me ask you this. Is raising a cow to be slaughtered cruel? How can you determine in which manner something is slaughtered that makes it less cruel? Can prematurely ending anything’s life be considered not cruel?

Third - Third, eggs? LMAO you do realize that most of those eggs are unfertilized don't you? The part I liked best about that quote was the part where you say “most”. Again it’s ok if you kill some things your way. I have no comment on your sterile livestock. As far as I am concerned with women passing an unfertilized egg, it only bothers me once a month for a couple of days.

Fourth – Back to creating our own ending from a story we make up, that is loosely based on real events. Who says people get their jollies or “giggles” from the act of seeing a living thing die. How can you know this?

You are the one sounding silly. Unless you really can tell me what these people were exactly thinking, and more importantly to your claims, how everyone feels when feeding mice to their pets you sound silly. You’re 31 I would expect you to be able to realize this.

 

[David_F]

My response is in red. I know you weren't talking to me and, no, it's not to be taken seriously. I'm just bored.

Retort

First – How can you assume that everyone who feeds their inverts / pets mice is doing it for some sort of sick pleasure?

What other reason would there be? With all the evidence available that says centipedes will eat pre-killed food I don't think ignorance is an excuse. There's got to be something? I'd say it's probably something like "I wonder if my pede could kill a mouse? Uh-huh-huh-huh.....". I could be wrong though.

Second – As I stated you’re ok with killing as long as it’s done your way. How is feeding a mouse to any other predator unnecessary cruelty? Let me ask you this. Is raising a cow to be slaughtered cruel? How can you determine in which manner something is slaughtered that makes it less cruel? Can prematurely ending anything’s life be considered not cruel?

Killing for food is not inherently cruel. The amount of respect shown for the animal is what is important. Throwing a mouse into an enclosed area with a predator and prodding it until the pede catches it shows a complete lack of respect for the mouse. That is cruel. Keeping and raising an animal in humane conditions until it is slaughtered (quickly, with the least amount of pain possible) may not be pretty...it may not be "fair" to the animal...but it's not cruel, IMO. If you disagree then, please, by all means, from this day forward refrain from killing anything (and "anything" includes plants).

Third -Again it’s ok if you kill some things your way. I have no comment on your sterile livestock.

See my response to #2.

Fourth – Back to creating our own ending from a story we make up, that is loosely based on real events. Who says people get their jollies or “giggles” from the act of seeing a living thing die. How can you know this?

I'd guess the reason most people here that are against feeding live verts to pedes, spiders, whatever assume others get their "jollies" from crap like this because the first thing most people ask when they see a big spider, pede, whatever is "Can it kill a mouse?".

You are the one sounding silly. Unless you really can tell me what these people were exactly thinking, and more importantly to your claims, how everyone feels when feeding mice to their pets you sound silly. You’re 31 I would expect you to be able to realize this.

I smegging love you smart guys. Not long out of high school and you've got the world by the short and curlies, don't you? Can you tell us exactly what these people were thinking? If not I guess we could see you as silly too, eh? This is a topic that is open to personal belief. Just because you've got a "smart" answer to everything doesn't make you right. Doesn't make you wrong either but......ah, whatever. My weekend starts in about 30 minutes. Besides, I couldn't argue my way out of a paper bag. I'm gone.

Have a good one.

 

[szappan]

Greetings to all, I'm 'szappan'.

I made those videos. To further support this claim I can upload a higher resolution video (43.2 MB) if anyone's interested – although I doubt anyone would be.

Since my actions (and morals?!) are being questioned I do feel the need to reply. Although I don't really have time to address every post here individually so I'll just quickly cover some of the topics that were brought up.

Why?! This is cruelty to animals!
I know people who find keeping any wild animal, even invertebrates, in forced captivity, cruel. So it obviously depends from which perspective we looking at things from.

Yet we do it anyways. We keep them in containers, we control every aspect of their environment from substrate to humidity, and some of us even project our sense of "morality" on them by only feeding them things that "don't feel pain". We little gods.

And although I'm trying to keep it from getting personal, I do find some of the posts on this rather hypocritical and amusing – especially from humanitarians that quote Nietzche.

The mouse feels pain, it fells death – crickets don't.
Wow. As much as I'm amazed that someone would actually think that, I'm more amazed by the fact more than one person here would believe that. Have you convinced yourselves of this so you can feel better about what you're doing? Honestly, its nothing personal, I'm just curious.

It's not the cricket's fault that it doesn't have vocal cords to make some heartbreaking cry while it is getting killed or consumed alive.

Briefly though, anything with nerve cells can feel pain, and all arthropods have a decentralized but not so primitive segmental nerve system. That means that there's not just one ganglion controlling their body functions. The brain is a fusion of 6 ganglions (3 pairs) and rest of them are spaced along the ventral (abdominal) side. That kinda anatomy of nervous system makes possible for them to react to the outside world in many different ways, and yes it means that they can feel the pain.

It doesn't happen in nature.
No, in nature there are thousands of people walking around feeding invertebrates organically grown, pre-killed crickets with tweezers. In nature a centipede would never do anything as cruel as corner its prey in a burrow, or kill something that's cute and fuzzy or has a loving family.

Specifically to the viridicoris video, my HUGE mistake was not taking out the wood before introducing the mouse. Had I taken it out as I did for the gigantea video then the kill would have gone much quicker and with less stress to the mouse.

Pre-killed VS live prey.
To each his own on this one. I had fed my centipedes live mice many times and although extremely nervous every single time, I was always amazed at how absolutely dominant it was once it had captured it's meal. And no, never once an injury – ever.

And "no", I never once took some sort of morbid pleasure in feeding them live mice. As a matter of fact, as a staunch animal lover, I always felt extremely guilty about it. But was I impressed by the centipede's instinct and ferocity? – yes, absolutely.

But "pre-kill"? Wow! Now there's a very nice politically correct term. I'll try that sometime. Perhaps someone could explain how to go about this? Do you use a little baseball bat like those seal hunters? How about putting the mouse in a bag and swinging it around and then slamming it into a coffee table? Hmm... that could get messy. How about electrocution? Is there a 'sticky' somewhere on this? And I could even cut it open for my centipede? That's great! No need for captive animals to maintain their killer instincts. Shame we can't raise them on tofu and then they too could live guilt-free.

What goes around comes around.
Well, if it is then we're all doomed. We're gonna be captured by bigger, anatomically advanced and far more intelligent creatures from outer space which will keep us in terrariums (furnished no doubt with IKEA) and feed us reptiles because they'll think that something with such a poorly developed nervous system, using themselves as a reference of course, can't possibly feel pain.

By this logic, when we die, we will all die thousands of little cricket deaths.

Amazing video.
When I made those videos (around '98), I never thought I'd one day be posting it. It was only ever recorded to burn to CD and mail to my relatives living in another country. Nonetheless, for those that complimented my video contribution to the internet and defended my actions or view point, thank you very much.

Although I have only recently discovered this forum, and will likely not have the time to become a regularly contributing member, I may drop by occasionally.

You guys have a great community here. :clap:

Sincerely:
szappan

 

[wayne the pain]

Do you still have those pedes?

 

[szappan]

Do you still have those pedes?

Thank you for asking but sadly no. It really broke my heart when they died and especially how they did.

The videos were taped when I lived in Toronto, Canada where I grew up – I've since moved to Budapest. I replied to this in another forum so please allow me to "copy and paste"

When I was looking for an apartment I wanted to make sure they didn't spray for bugs and also that the landlord wouldn't have a problem with my pets and kick me out... so I was so delighted when I found one that was very clean and they assured me that they didn't spray... you can probably guess where I'm going with this.

Anyways, I moved in and within days both centipedes were acting very sluggish... and then suddenly a whole batch of my feeder crickets died... I was always so careful with my 'pedes. I'd only feed them crickets or mice that I'd buy in a store because I was worried that anything I'd catch in the wild might be infected with an insecticide and if one or more crickets from the store were sick then I wouldn't give them those either.

But what I think must have happened is that the crickets got infected and when I fed them to the centipedes they got sick too.

I don't think the centipedes got sick directly because I also had a small 'Red Clawed' Scorpion that happened to be rejecting food at the time and he was fine... I also had two European Mole Crickets (that I had snuck back to Canada in my pockets) and they're omnivores I happened to be feeding them cucumbers that week... and they were fine.

Anyways, at the time, I wasn't positive about what was going on... some critters were sick, other not... so I called the building managers and they also assured me that they didn't know what I was talking about... no cockroaches... no spraying. I tried everything but you can imagine that insect doctors are in short supply but I had some knowledgeable friends and didn't know what to do either.
I moved them back to my parents' place, replaced the substrate, and still... by then it was too late... they both got progressively worse, rejecting food... losing a lot of weight... and by the end they were too weak to even drink (I'd put their heads in the water dish and then they'd drink but not otherwise) anyways, parts of them started rotting and although they still showed some signs of life (slight twitching occasionally) I knew that they were too far gone...

The building managers kept denying anything had been done before I moved in but did once say "and even if we did spray it shouldn't have bothered any small pets that you may have...".

The following May my suspicions were confirmed when on the bulletin boards in the building they put up advertisements saying that it was time for the "annual bug spraying" and to move any dogs or cats out for a couple of days just incase...

Sorry for the long reply...


PS: I currently have a centipede that was sold to me as a 'gigantea' but I have a strong suspicion its actually a Haitian Giant. Some day soon when I get a better camera I will post a pic and ask for help in identification.

 

[nightbreed]

I know I said I was finished with this but I feel I must comment further, I don't need to address Waryur as David_F has covered all the bases.

Greetings to all, I'm 'szappan'.

I made those videos. To further support this claim I can upload a higher resolution video (43.2 MB) if anyone's interested – although I doubt anyone would be.

Since my actions (and morals?!) are being questioned I do feel the need to reply. Although I don't really have time to address every post here individually so I'll just quickly cover some of the topics that were brought up.

Why?! This is cruelty to animals!
I know people who find keeping any wild animal, even invertebrates, in forced captivity, cruel. So it obviously depends from which perspective we looking at things from.

Yet we do it anyways. We keep them in containers, we control every aspect of their environment from substrate to humidity, and some of us even project our sense of "morality" on them by only feeding them things that "don't feel pain". We little gods.

And although I'm trying to keep it from getting personal, I do find some of the posts on this rather hypocritical and amusing – especially from humanitarians that quote Nietzche.

please point out where I'm being hypocritical?

The mouse feels pain, it fells death – crickets don't.
Wow. As much as I'm amazed that someone would actually think that, I'm more amazed by the fact more than one person here would believe that. Have you convinced yourselves of this so you can feel better about what you're doing? Honestly, its nothing personal, I'm just curious.

It's not the cricket's fault that it doesn't have vocal cords to make some heartbreaking cry while it is getting killed or consumed alive.

Briefly though, anything with nerve cells can feel pain, and all arthropods have a decentralized but not so primitive segmental nerve system. That means that there's not just one ganglion controlling their body functions. The brain is a fusion of 6 ganglions (3 pairs) and rest of them are spaced along the ventral (abdominal) side. That kinda anatomy of nervous system makes possible for them to react to the outside world in many different ways, and yes it means that they can feel the pain

It can sense and react to negative stimuli, but feel pain in the same way as a vertibrate? I think not.

It doesn't happen in nature.
No, in nature there are thousands of people walking around feeding invertebrates organically grown, pre-killed crickets with tweezers. In nature a centipede would never do anything as cruel as corner its prey in a burrow, or kill something that's cute and fuzzy or has a loving family.

Gadzooks man, you could say with as just as much validity that there aren't thousands of people with video cameras feeding them mice either, what is your point?

Specifically to the viridicoris video, my HUGE mistake was not taking out the wood before introducing the mouse. Had I taken it out as I did for the gigantea video then the kill would have gone much quicker and with less stress to the mouse.

Pre-killed VS live prey.
To each his own on this one. I had fed my centipedes live mice many times and although extremely nervous every single time, I was always amazed at how absolutely dominant it was once it had captured it's meal. And no, never once an injury – ever.

And "no", I never once took some sort of morbid pleasure in feeding them live mice. As a matter of fact, as a staunch animal lover, I always felt extremely guilty about it. But was I impressed by the centipede's instinct and ferocity? – yes, absolutely.

If you took no pleasure from it, why did you do it?

But "pre-kill"? Wow! Now there's a very nice politically correct term. I'll try that sometime. Perhaps someone could explain how to go about this? Do you use a little baseball bat like those seal hunters? How about putting the mouse in a bag and swinging it around and then slamming it into a coffee table? Hmm... that could get messy. How about electrocution? Is there a 'sticky' somewhere on this? And I could even cut it open for my centipede? That's great! No need for captive animals to maintain their killer instincts. Shame we can't raise them on tofu and then they too could live guilt-free.

Congrats you were coming across as a sensible human being, someone I may not agree with but could respect and converse with, but you show your true colours with this utter nonsense.
Feeder mice/rats are killed using CO2 they just go to sleep failing that you can break their neck sending them into spinal shock resulting in instant death.

What goes around comes around.
Well, if it is then we're all doomed. We're gonna be captured by bigger, anatomically advanced and far more intelligent creatures from outer space which will keep us in terrariums (furnished no doubt with IKEA) and feed us reptiles because they'll think that something with such a poorly developed nervous system, using themselves as a reference of course, can't possibly feel pain.

By this logic, when we die, we will all die thousands of little cricket deaths.

This isn't to do with me at all as I don't wish harm to anyone.

Amazing video.
When I made those videos (around '98), I never thought I'd one day be posting it. It was only ever recorded to burn to CD and mail to my relatives living in another country. Nonetheless, for those that complimented my video contribution to the internet and defended my actions or view point, thank you very much.

They are very interesting videos.

Although I have only recently discovered this forum, and will likely not have the time to become a regularly contributing member, I may drop by occasionally.

You guys have a great community here. :clap:

Sincerely:
szappan

Take care

 

[CedrikG]

I'll say like the other, put this tread as sticky tread so we can stop talking about it again again and again

 

[Nich]

Wow, it still amazes me the amount of rouse a mouse will get. THEY ARE BRED TO DIE.......for petes sake. It shouldnt be anymore complicated then that, if it is you shouldnt be watching the vid as your obviously over empathetic and bored with nothing better to do.

 

[Nich]

If you took no pleasure from it, why did you do it?

Most of us who sacrifice mice do get pleasure from wattching them be cunsumed, thats almost the point. I enjoy it, it doesnt make me a bad person just kind of warped.....

 

[nightbreed]

Most of us who sacrifice mice do get pleasure from wattching them be cunsumed, thats almost the point. I enjoy it, it doesnt make me a bad person just kind of warped.....

I admire your honesty.

 

[Galapoheros]

I'll say like the other, put this tread as sticky tread so we can stop talking about it again again and again

Yea, there is no end, like politics and religion. Pesticides killed all my stuff one year too while in an apartment. I've had my own house now for 11 years and have never used pesticides. I see about one roach a year. The house spiders seem to keep things in balance. I just clean up the bug bodies every once in a while. It works for me.

 

[Scolopendra]

szappan: "But "pre-kill"? Wow! Now there's a very nice politically correct term. I'll try that sometime. Perhaps someone could explain how to go about this? Do you use a little baseball bat like those seal hunters? How about putting the mouse in a bag and swinging it around and then slamming it into a coffee table? Hmm... that could get messy"

hmm yes that is almost the case, actually just grab them by the tail and hope you hit their head on the table and not miss, just to end up throwing it against the floor.Or hold the mouse in your enclosed fist with its head peeking out and take a small hammer or screwdriver handle to its head. or.....the list goes on. yet i would only do this for the baby monitor, the inverts can take care of their selves just fine. szappan: liked the videos, beautiful pedes too