videos: gigeanta robusta/viridicoris eating mice

Galapoheros

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ErikH said:
Philosophical discussions aside, the video wasn't even that great.
Yea, I think it's the "lack of" giant pede video that is the reason why people want to see it and like it. Add the fact that the two sp are practically unavailable here, well people are going to say...it's a good video. Most pede lovers in the US would just like to see one move. I know I would pay some $ for a S. gigantea or S. viridicornis, regardless of any hype. Fascinating animals....to me.
 

CedrikG

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Galapoheros said:
Fascinating animals....to me.

Oh and me to :rolleyes: to much fascinating to take any chance to injure or even kill it
 
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Bigboy

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Those videos were amazing. Watching those big guys in action really gives me a whole new sense of respect for them. And holy smokes, that viridicornis was gigantic! Was annoyed to have to see the whole "feeding live mice is cruel" nonsense again but still, those videos were definitly worth it.
 
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Scolopendra55

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I'm not complaining or anything, but I've noticed that people here are really sensitive and touchy about these kind of things. I posted pics on Venomlist of my S.subspinipes killing and eating a mouse and everybody there was just fine with it!
 
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Curry

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People eat chicken, goat, beef, duck etc etc etc
Lions eat zebras
Aliigators eat wildebeasts
Sharks eat fish
Cheetahs eat gazelle
A few T's eat frogs, lizards, mice or other inverts


what the hell is the big freakin deal about

we should all go tell a cheetah to stop killing gazelles see what it does...
 

Galapoheros

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Scolopendra55 said:
I'm not complaining or anything, but I've noticed that people here are really sensitive and touchy about these kind of things. I posted pics on Venomlist of my S.subspinipes killing and eating a mouse and everybody there was just fine with it!
Speaking of S. subspinipes, mine is out right now. Going to try to get a pic. Talk about sensitive...man, these hide at the slightest don't they. Are you the one that posted those old mouse eating pics a while back? Man, that was pretty brutal. Maybe that was you. Woosh, I didn't think whoever it was, was going to come back to the AB. This mouse/pede thing makes me think about the method of injection as compared to scorps. A scorp holds the prey away from it's head and carefully stings it, if it doesn't crush it. But a pede's fangs are right under the head. Seems dangerous for an arthropod. Seems dangerous for spiders as well but the pedes and spiders pull it off. Pretty amazing. The most important part of their body is where their pain makers are. Seems like the prey would go for place of pain to defend themselves, and that's where the attackers head area is! You think they are more subject to injury than scorps? Maybe that's why spiders and pedes have evolved to regenerate body parts. Scorps don't regenerate do they? I have had many scorps. I only have one right now. But I've never been sure whether they can regenerate limbs. I read that they don't. Is that correct? Getting whacko, tired, going to bed.........NO.... Going to see if the pede is still out.
 

Nich

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:D After watching the video again....I never realised a virid could get so large....those are tru monsters! Ive got $350 to the man who send me one.....;)
 

nightbreed

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Cirith Ungol said:
Why care about once death and the way you ended up "it" if the only time you're able to actually think about it is when you're already dead?
I'm sure while you were being slowly devoured you'd have plenty of time to think about a nice quick bullet to the head :)
Then again your mind may be fully occupied with the pain ;)

If you were kidnapped tonight and your captors told you they were going to kill you and you could choose between a quick bullet or slowly being fed to pigs starting with your feet (Hannibal style) are you really trying to tell me you wouldn't care because the end result is the same?

Curry said:
People eat chicken, goat, beef, duck etc etc etc
Lions eat zebras
Aliigators eat wildebeasts
Sharks eat fish
Cheetahs eat gazelle
A few T's eat frogs, lizards, mice or other inverts


what the hell is the big freakin deal about

we should all go tell a cheetah to stop killing gazelles see what it does...
*sigh* You are talking about nature, when you go to a Zoo and you see the lions being fed do they chuck big sides of beef in the cage or a live cow?
 
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Cirith Ungol

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nightbreed said:
I'm sure while you were being slowly devoured you'd have plenty of time to think about a nice quick bullet to the head :)
Then again your mind may be fully occupied with the pain ;)

If you were kidnapped tonight and your captors told you they were going to kill you and you could choose between a quick bullet or slowly being fed to pigs starting with your feet (Hannibal style) are you really trying to tell me you wouldn't care because the end result is the same?
Yes, due to the natural survival instincts, while being devoured, that bullet would certainly seem pretty fair. But again, it wouldn't matter. Either way I'd not have any fighting chance which renders any hoping, wondering or wishing piontless either way. That because fear for my life would be pointless and death the only possible result.

And standing by the point I made when feeding starving (to death) baby corn snakes to T's - at least they didn't go to waste. The same could be said about me and the pigs. (Though in a grander scheme nothing goes to waste - it's just a matter of time before the body re-enters the circle of life).

nightbreed said:
*sigh* You are talking about nature, when you go to a Zoo and you see the lions being fed do they chuck big sides of beef in the cage or a live cow?
I'd think that it's a lot easier to transport and store a side of beef than storing a cow. A side of beef doesn't need to be fed or prepared, it's already chopped up and easy for the zoo staff to throw to the lions. If it was (legal and) more practical and cheaper for a zoo to send live cows down to the lions then they'd do it.

(I'm only trying to look at all this as logically as possible)
 

nightbreed

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Cirith Ungol said:
Yes, due to the natural survival instincts, while being devoured, that bullet would certainly seem pretty fair. But again, it wouldn't matter. Either way I'd not have any fighting chance which renders any hoping, wondering or wishing piontless either way. That because fear for my life would be pointless and death the only possible result.

And standing by the point I made when feeding starving (to death) baby corn snakes to T's - at least they didn't go to waste. The same could be said about me and the pigs. (Though in a grander scheme nothing goes to waste - it's just a matter of time before the body re-enters the circle of life).
I see what you're trying to say but surely you would rather have an easy, quick, painless death than a slow agonizing one, even if the end result is the same.
After your death it wouldn't matter but right up to the point when you actually died I'm pretty sure it would, its all about quality of life even if we are only talking minutes.

If you had a very sick pet cat you'd take it to the vet to be put to sleep (if it was in lots of pain) you wouldn't give it to the neighbours dog to kill.

Cirith Ungol said:
I'd think that it's a lot easier to transport and store a side of beef than storing a cow. A side of beef doesn't need to be fed or prepared, it's already chopped up and easy for the zoo staff to throw to the lions. If it was (legal and) more practical and cheaper for a zoo to send live cows down to the lions then they'd do it.
Yes it is and thats one more argument for feeding F/T feeders, my freezer is full of frozen rats and mice of different sizes so I only have to go shopping for pet food every couple of months I don't have to go to the pet shop and buy live animals every feeding day, and speaking as someone who keeps Royal pythons what the hell do you do with a live feeder when your snake/T/scorp whatever decides its not hungry? You're stuck with a live animal.

Cirith Ungol said:
(I'm only trying to look at all this as logically as possible)
I know man, trust me I'm trying to do the same. :)

The way I see it even if you ignore the fact that live feeding is cruel, its risky, its inconvenient, its unnecessary, its bad PR for our hobby, logically it just doesn't make sense, the negatives far outweigh any positives.
 

Waryur

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Nightbreed just to contine with your being wrong again. At zoo's some animals are fed live prey. But you never see it because it is done after hours. In fact i vividly remember see'ing the sand cat being fed everyday at 9 pm. 3 dead mice 1 live mouse.

Not that i would expect you to know because you obviously havn't worked at a zoo. But i did expect that you would form your own conclusions from facts that you create on your own like every other argument you give.

P.S sand cats are ridicolous. They look like normal house cats, but they are the meanet little beasts ever. We called ours Panzer, she sized up people. I was fully convinced she could take me.
 

Cirith Ungol

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nightbreed said:
I see what you're trying to say but surely you would rather have an easy, quick, painless death than a slow agonizing one, even if the end result is the same.

After your death it wouldn't matter but right up to the point when you actually died I'm pretty sure it would, its all about quality of life even if we are only talking minutes.
Yes, that's what I said when I mentioned survival instincts. But then we also have to remember that the point of the argument in this thread isn't actually ones own death, but us causing the death of another being, so the suffering of pain isn't our own to bear but the other beings. (Again, just trying to be objective, not artificially cruel).

nightbreed said:
If you had a very sick pet cat you'd take it to the vet to be put to sleep (if it was in lots of pain) you wouldn't give it to the neighbours dog to kill.
I'd take it to the vet to see if it could be healed, not killed. If I'd realize myself and was certain that the cat can't be healed I'd kill it myself using an asphyxiation method I was taught by my grandfather. After that I'd check if one of my friends wanted it for snakefood (because I'm personally more comfortable with the corpse being eaten by something bigger than tossing it in the dirt and letting it rot).

nightbreed said:
Yes it is and thats one more argument for feeding F/T feeders, my freezer is full of frozen rats and mice of different sizes so I only have to go shopping for pet food every couple of months I don't have to go to the pet shop and buy live animals every feeding day, and speaking as someone who keeps Royal pythons what the hell do you do with a live feeder when your snake/T/scorp whatever decides its not hungry? You're stuck with a live animal.
But that's down to personal preference. If I had the possibility to raise mice without my snakes going nuts from constantly being subjected to the smell of them I'd raise them myself (even started a thread on that topic a while ago in order to check out my options). So for me feeding live mice (if it was legal in this country) would have become a possibility - maybe not a smart one, but a possibility nontheless.

nightbreed said:
I know man, trust me I'm trying to do the same. :)
;)

nightbreed said:
The way I see it even if you ignore the fact that live feeding is cruel, its risky, its inconvenient, its unnecessary, its bad PR for our hobby, logically it just doesn't make sense, the negatives far outweigh any positives.
I think you mean that killing verts by slow means is cruel. You do live feeding in general on a weekly basis with your inverts when you feed them insects and other.

Risky - yes quite often and if the choice of feeder is bad.

Inconvenient - possibly but not nessessarily. It's convenient to feed live pinkies (IF you are raising mice yourself) to a baby corn, at times even nessessary, and not very risky at all.

Bad PR - Most often due to lack of understanding on the side of news agencies and the public, but if nessessary (as described above) PR doesn't matter, you're the expert (hopefully!) not them!

Makes no sense - it does if the animal doesn't accept pre-killed food.

The negatives far outweigh any positives - It's not always up to us humans to determin what's good or bad, but if you look at everything with your heart and gut then I can understand that a few choices you have to make are harder than nessessary.

Again - if only looked at from a compassionate point of view then it's cruel subjecting any kind of animal to a life in captivity and risking that if we don't attend to it correctly it might fare ill or even die! So off into their natural habitat all the pets go, just to keep them as safe and natural as possible (and that means that the wild wild world takes over, they kill what they must and don't care about us and our views and do it their own way by slithering down a burrow to eat live mice... and get killed when moving a "step" too close to a bigger predator.) Who said life is fair?

It isn't, and I've stopped bothering about it not being so. I do what I can to preserve the health of my pets (because I have taken upon myself the responsibility for their well being and I've payed for them and I care about them on a human level), which means out of 1 case of live vert feeding I feed pre-killed 1000+ times, I try to give them the healthiest cage habitat I can provide them with and that's where I draw the line. It's up to others to decide what they wanna do and it's by no means unnatural to subject a hunter to prey that can fight back and even injur or kill the hunter if lucky enough.

You could feed a healthy lion cub to a pack of wolves and the only thing unnatural about it would be the combination of animals. But the danger would be its natural same, whatever the combination, because whenever hunters hunt they are in danger of injuring themselves (they might trip, they might get bit/impaled/kicked/bashed...whatever).

That's not unnatural, because still they'd attack anything they come across that seems small or weak enough to be overpowered and still every time they subject themselves to the risks it involves. Hunters (fresh meat eating animals) have no choice, either they risk getting injured during a hunt or they die of starvation. Animals are even known to subject themselves to the danger of being injured or killed for "less" - when fighting for a mate. And all that killing and being killed is one of the pillars that hold up the big roof of evolution (which is one of the most important natural processes I can think of).

Especially in the case of a large invert it's pretty hard to determin if you're actually putting it into unnatural danger because it (like a giant pede, T or scorp) can't really see it's prey and assess the danger like a vert hunter could (a wolf can be intimidated by very large horns or just by the size of the animal infront of it). And since it's that hard for an invert to determin danger when attacking its prey I'd tend to think that they subject themselves to a lot of danger every time when feeding in the wild! I'd also imagine that quite often a large pede would go for a snake, and snakes in my opionion pose quite a bigger risk to the invert than a mouse does.

All this isn't to say though that it's no problem submitting a captive vert to danger by reversal of the hunter/prey role! Just arguing that it's not unnatural!

So... I'm with you on most of your views, but not by some moral default, as you see. That's the big difference.
 

nightbreed

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Waryur said:
Nightbreed just to contine with your being wrong again. At zoo's some animals are fed live prey. But you never see it because it is done after hours. In fact i vividly remember see'ing the sand cat being fed everyday at 9 pm. 3 dead mice 1 live mouse.

Not that i would expect you to know because you obviously havn't worked at a zoo. But i did expect that you would form your own conclusions from facts that you create on your own like every other argument you give.

P.S sand cats are ridicolous. They look like normal house cats, but they are the meanet little beasts ever. We called ours Panzer, she sized up people. I was fully convinced she could take me.
Just to continue with you being wrong, where did I mention mice and sand cats? I said lions and cows.
I wouldn't be at all suprised to hear that smaller mammals are fed live food at Zoos.

In the case of the cat you mentioned that is to do with environment enrichment the animal is fed one live animal as a form of entertainment to stop the cat getting bored, this is not necessary with pedes/snakes/T's and the like, unless you're going to tell me inverts and snakes have the capacity to get bored lol

Why was the cat fed 3 dead and 1 live mouse, why not 4 live mice?

If live feeding serves a purpose - beyond entertaining the Beevis and Butthead types - if it is necessary, then fine, but if it is pure entertainment for the keeper then it is wrong.
 

Cirith Ungol

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nightbreed said:
If live feeding serves a purpose - beyond entertaining the Beevis and Butthead types - if it is necessary, then fine, but if it is pure entertainment for the keeper then it is wrong.
I might do it out of neither purpose, just because it can be very interesting to see how the hunter reacts to and kills its prey - if the prey is or is close to something the hunter could come across in the wild. So there is the semi-scientific aspect too.
 

nightbreed

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Cirith Ungol said:
I might do it out of neither purpose, just because it can be very interesting to see how the hunter reacts to and kills its prey - if the prey is or is close to something the hunter could come across in the wild. So there is the semi-scientific aspect too.
This I can agree with, doing it out of curiosity once or twice I can relate to, after all I'm fascinated by these animals too which includes how they hunt, but doing it on a regular basis just to show how "bad>self edit<" your pet is or just for giggles, is IMO wrong.
 

ErikH

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nightbreed said:
This I can agree with, doing it out of curiosity once or twice I can relate to, after all I'm fascinated by these animals too which includes how they hunt, but doing it on a regular basis just to show how "bad>self edit<" your pet is or just for giggles, is IMO wrong.
I agree. Like I said earlier, the video is not that great anyway. But it would be just as interesting to me if the 'pede was taking a big cockroach, or whatever. And putting both English and Metric rulers next to it so both sides of the border can be impressed? Come on. If he was making this video to further the interest of science, why didn't he make one of the two centipedes writhing and twitching from eating insecticide tainted crickets? That wouldn't be too funny would it?
 

deathrattle

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i love animals. one of my favorite animals is the homo sapien.a fascinating creature. they have an amazing amount of range and change their environment more than any animal since the dawn of time. they are by far the smartest species on earth and because of this they often deny that they are even animals and refuse to believe that they things they do, as animals, are natural. another interesting characteristic they posess is the need to be entertained. they get bored very easily and have invented many ways to relieve this boredom. one of the oldest ways is by keeping other animals as pets. some of their pets they just keep in a cage. they try to trick the animal into thinking he is outside as best they can. they also feed these animals whatever they choose. animals are awesome.
 

Arlius

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Why does everyone keep putting human emotion towards animal death and think thats the way the animal feels? Yes, most people having the decision would prefer to die less painfully, but having any real kind of a choice in it is purely an artifact of society, not nature.
No animal except perhaps primates and dolphins (don't remember...) is aware or actually capable of comprehending death in it's self. Even when you see animals 'broken up' over a mate/family death, it is not because they understand the nature of what is going on.
When we put our sick animals down at the vets, it is because we cared for that animal, we know that animal, we think it is cute, loveable, etc, etc, etc. and also because it is not legal to do otherwise. You are not allowed to club your animal to death, drown it, or feed it off. Most people wouldnt have the stomach or desire to anyways.
On that note, people actually tend to have the stomach and desire for doing very little. People have become so sheltered from reality that they care and focus on the trivial. Like vegetarians for example...
Caring for the well being (feelings) of the mouse is the ONLY reason not to feed it live to your pet other than the concerns about damage to your pet (which is really your choice, period)
A point on how much you really care for mice...
If you care for mice, what would you do if you had a small infestation in your house? Without really a second thought Im sure you would think of the standard mouse trap. The mouse trap is a simple, crude and effective killing mechanism, but it is by no means humane. Interesting if you have ever seen a mouse get caught in one... One in particular I remember seeing was in my dads backyard. Mouse tripped the trap, and got snapped just in behind the eyes. That mouse flopped around so frantic and hard for about 20 seconds, getting a good 4 inches of air even with the weight of the trap. Inspected it later, and the eyes were bugged out, its head crushed right behind the eyes like we guessed (we had binoculars though so it wasnt to much of a guess... heh)
 

Galapoheros

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Arlius said:
Why does everyone keep putting human emotion towards animal death and think thats the way the animal feels? Yes, most people having the decision would prefer to die less painfully, but having any real kind of a choice in it is purely an artifact of society, not nature.
No animal except perhaps primates and dolphins (don't remember...) is aware or actually capable of comprehending death in it's self. Even when you see animals 'broken up' over a mate/family death, it is not because they understand the nature of what is going on.
When we put our sick animals down at the vets, it is because we cared for that animal, we know that animal, we think it is cute, loveable, etc, etc, etc. and also because it is not legal to do otherwise. You are not allowed to club your animal to death, drown it, or feed it off. Most people wouldnt have the stomach or desire to anyways.
On that note, people actually tend to have the stomach and desire for doing very little. People have become so sheltered from reality that they care and focus on the trivial. Like vegetarians for example...
Caring for the well being (feelings) of the mouse is the ONLY reason not to feed it live to your pet other than the concerns about damage to your pet (which is really your choice, period)
A point on how much you really care for mice...
If you care for mice, what would you do if you had a small infestation in your house? Without really a second thought Im sure you would think of the standard mouse trap. The mouse trap is a simple, crude and effective killing mechanism, but it is by no means humane. Interesting if you have ever seen a mouse get caught in one... One in particular I remember seeing was in my dads backyard. Mouse tripped the trap, and got snapped just in behind the eyes. That mouse flopped around so frantic and hard for about 20 seconds, getting a good 4 inches of air even with the weight of the trap. Inspected it later, and the eyes were bugged out, its head crushed right behind the eyes like we guessed (we had binoculars though so it wasnt to much of a guess... heh)
I was having some of the same thoughts last night. Compassion is a human, social trait. I think it's the basis for a happy, healthy human society. Many of us carry human compassion over to animals. Some don't, when it comes to mice anyway. Me? I will open a window to let a fly out. But if someone want's to feed a mouse to another animal, I can tolerate it, ESPECIALLY IF IT'S TOO A GIANT CENTIPEDE! I have lost my seriousness with this thread. I haven't read many of the other posts so I may be repeating what has been said. But here's a thought. If we were bit by either one of those pedes, we would feel ALLOT of pain. Maybe the mouse is so small that the venom overwhelms the mouse to the point that a fast death is the issue and not as much pain is felt as we would think. Not likely but just a thought.
 

sick4x4

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say what?!?!?

those vids are sick!!!!! where can i get one!!!! i think varity is always best when feeding anything... do u honestlly think in the wild there are a surplus of crickets???? no i didnt think so...let bygons be bygons!!!! to each their own!!! and hey at least we didnt have to feed them!!!lol...besides who amonge us hasnt given a hopper to a C. crawshayi???? peace in the middle east!!!!!! love u all
 
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