videos: gigeanta robusta/viridicoris eating mice

finman31

Arachnosquire
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Boy...nobody thinks its nothing bad about feeding a mouse to a large pede,I personally dont care,it looks dangerous to the pede,but its his not mine,so either way it would be of no loss to me.Just makes me wonder how many people would be upset if I posted videos of my raccoon eating large pedes like donuts?(He will chomp ANY bug) I think then it would be different.Even the people that have no problem with whatever they feed their inverts would get quite upset to see their favorite type pets being fed to another pet. Come to think of it...normally I feed prepared food with mixed fish, but after all variety is the best....
 

pimpin_posey

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good point finman. like my g/f she saw the videos and she absolutly the loves hte 6 mice i bought her. and said if i ever fed one of her mice to anything i have that she would feed me to sumtin bigger and more painful.{D
 

Cirith Ungol

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finman31 said:
Boy...nobody thinks its nothing bad about feeding a mouse to a large pede,I personally dont care,it looks dangerous to the pede,but its his not mine,so either way it would be of no loss to me.Just makes me wonder how many people would be upset if I posted videos of my raccoon eating large pedes like donuts?(He will chomp ANY bug) I think then it would be different.Even the people that have no problem with whatever they feed their inverts would get quite upset to see their favorite type pets being fed to another pet. Come to think of it...normally I feed prepared food with mixed fish, but after all variety is the best....
Are raccoons indifferent to pede poison? If not, see this as an attempt of mine to make a point about unnessessary risk. So it's not just a case of "you feed this and I feed that."
 

szappan

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Hello again.

Well I must say that this is quite the debate, one that I had no idea was an ongoing thing in this community until I arrived at this forum.

nightbreed said:
please point out where I'm being hypocritical?
nightbreed – about 90% of my original reply was actually addressing someone else. And at first the only part that I was thinking you were being a little hypocritical about is saying that you're a humanitarian (which I'm in no questioning) and at the same time quoting German philosopher Nietzche. And I'm a hypocrite in my own ways, I'd be a liar if I said otherwise. Regardless, after reading all your posts, I've got respect for you, you've got your opinion and you're sticking to your guns, hats off to you.

nightbreed said:
It can sense and react to negative stimuli, but feel pain in the same way as a vertibrate? I think not.
Amoeba, paramecium and euglena are on the simple level you're describing – they have taxic movements which they demonstrate in moving away or going towards certain stimuli (light for example). Arthropods are very far from those in invertebrate systematics.

In the physiology of an insect's nervous system there's nothing that indicates that they don't feel pain, of course that exoskeleton means they don't have skin covered in cells specialized for touch, and therefore it doesn't feel the vertebrate kind of pain. But prostaglandin, the substance responsible for the actual feeling of pain has been proven to exist in the body of insects.

Like I said, people are very visual creatures and tend to think that anything that doesn't scream or twitch at moment of death doesn't feel anything, but they do.

nightbreed said:
Gadzooks man, you could say with as just as much validity that there aren't thousands of people with video cameras feeding them mice either, what is your point?
My point was that centipedes don't get pre-killed animals in the wild, that they do in fact hunt and kill. They have no sense of morality clouding their instinct for survival.

By the way... "gadzooks"?! LOL!!! Great word! I haven't heard that one in a long time, I may have to use it in another forum I'm a member of...

nightbreed said:
If you took no pleasure from it, why did you do it?
Because I was feeding my centipedes. It's really that simple. The same way I don't get any pleasure feeding them crickets – aside from knowing that they are healthy and getting the nourishment they need. I doubt you're getting any pleasure from breaking the necks of mice. I wasn't doing it out of curiosity, or fun, or "jollies", or filming, or science "Invertebrate VS Vertebrate Gladiators" or any other reason some people have wrongly assumed.

nightbreed said:
Congrats you were coming across as a sensible human being, someone I may not agree with but could respect and converse with,
Thank you.

nightbreed said:
but you show your true colours with this utter nonsense.
Sorry to disappoint, but "my true colours"? Don't jump to conclusions.

nightbreed said:
Feeder mice/rats are killed using CO2 they just go to sleep failing that you can break their neck sending them into spinal shock resulting in instant death.
OK, sorry 'nightbreed' but my hypocrisy meter is going off again... CO2? fine, that actually is a painless way of killing an animal. Breaking their neck?! I hope you have lots of practice because if its not done wrong then it is indeed horrifying for the mouse. And just on a personal note, I could never imagine taking a mouse in my hand and snapping it's neck... then again, I feed it to centipedes, so there's my hypocrisy.

Incidentally, on one occasion the viridicoris rejected a mouse (the gigantea was still too small), so I took it back to the store and they luckily accepted it back, I didn't get my money back but I didn't really care about that. I'd imagine trying to return a pre-killed mouse wouldn't have been successful though.

nightbreed said:
They are very interesting videos.

Take care
Thank you and good luck with your debate.

After reading some of the other posts, I'm honestly surprised by what I'm reading.

First of all, while I recognize the obvious risk, has there ever been a case of a mouse injuring a full grown large species of scolopendra? Please keep in mind that while I'm keenly fascinated in invertebrates but have never joined a forum exchanging experiences with them. In all my experiences with them they are far too fast and aggressive for the mouse, so it's a virtual "no contest".

Second of all, $400.00?! US?!?! When the hell did they get that expensive?! I thought I over-paid for my viridicoris in '97 when I paid $120.00 CDN, most of that going to the store that custom ordered it for me. And after getting to know the actual importer, I paid... I'm not sure, either $20.00 or $40.00 CDN for the young, approx. 15cm, gigantea! And about a year ago I paid 23,000 HUF (again about $120.00 CDN, shipping to Hungary included) for a miss-identified scolopendra, I was told it was gigantea but I have a strong suspicion it's a Haitian Giant. What happened in the pet trade industry?! Again, I'm not actively involved in it so forgive my ignorance.

All the best.
szappan.

PS: I've recieved a few Private Messages. Unfortunately I'm in a hurry here but will reply to them tomorrow – thank you. :)
 

Randolph XX()

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in terms of the price
man, how much does a pair of nike cost? NIke pays a worker in China 2 usd for whole day making a dozen of shoes, and sell a pair to u for at least a 100
what do u say? M. martensii is like 40 usd per pund in the food market, but invert hobbyists would be happy to pay 10 usd for one in other countries
not to mention other species from second world and third world countries
so, stop crying about the price
Pain, dudes, Veggies fell pain, too -I guess
 

finman31

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Cirith Ungol said:
Are raccoons indifferent to pede poison? If not, see this as an attempt of mine to make a point about unnessessary risk. So it's not just a case of "you feed this and I feed that."
Good point Cirith, I wouldnt risk him eating a large pede.He eats local pedes when he finds them out in my yard,and sometimes he grabs real quick and rips them in half,just as he does with fish or crayfish,but it wouldnt be worth the risk of him getting hurt by feeding him a large pede,but if I did,I guess it would be like taking the unnessessary risk of a very expensive pede by feeding it an adult mouse,if say the mouse chomped just right....
 

Cirith Ungol

Ministry of Fluffy Bunnies
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finman31 said:
Good point Cirith, I wouldnt risk him eating a large pede.He eats local pedes when he finds them out in my yard,and sometimes he grabs real quick and rips them in half,just as he does with fish or crayfish,but it wouldnt be worth the risk of him getting hurt by feeding him a large pede,but if I did,I guess it would be like taking the unnessessary risk of a very expensive pede by feeding it an adult mouse,if say the mouse chomped just right....
And that's exactly the point I was trying to make the first time. Lets say we have two feeding situations:

Giant pede + mouse
Raccoon + giant pede

In both cases the prey manages to give the hunter a good solid bite - I'm pretty sure the pede can manage. I don't know but would imagine pedes can regenerate most injuries or at least some, they also have extra legs to spare and unless the mouse rips open a vital organ the pede could come out relatively well eventhough severelly bruised.

The Raccoon though would end up with a large dose of venom in it's system and unless it can chemically cope with it it's gonna go down cold or at least severely hurt.

So you can't put both those feeding situations gone wrong into a set of scales and assess them equally dangerous to the hunter. (Clear though - in both situations the prey is most likely to die)
 

finman31

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Agreed 100%.Really I guess we both are saying an unessessary risk could be a bad one.I would not feed a pede to a coon,or a mouse to pede as long as there are many other food items. But,each man is his own,and he is free to make what choice he chooses,whether or not it is right or wrong.
 

finman31

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Oh...and as far as the mouse hurting the pede? I have had a snake killed by a mouse before(young mexican kingsnake),and I know many people that has also.Its all about that right bite.
 

Mister Internet

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Good lord, don't you self-righteous whiners on BOTH sides of this argument ever get tired of listening to yourselves? :)
 

Cirith Ungol

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Mister Internet said:
Good lord, don't you self-righteous whiners on BOTH sides of this argument ever get tired of listening to yourselves? :)
Yes. Very. (If now only I knew what side I was on :?)

Maybe that's the problem ;)
 

Mister Internet

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Cirith Ungol said:
Yes. Very. (If now only I knew what side I was on :?)

Maybe that's the problem ;)
Well put...

You know, you can shove a dog's nose it its own crap, but you can't make a dog believe you actually just shoved its nose in its own crap. If it doesn't want to believe that you just shoved its nose in its own crap, all you can do is rest secure in the knowledge that you did everything you could do to alert the dog to the existence of its crap.

And of course, laugh at the stupid dog with crap all over its nose...
 

Cirith Ungol

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Mister Internet said:
Well put...

You know, you can shove a dog's nose it its own crap, but you can't make a dog believe you actually just shoved its nose in its own crap. If it doesn't want to believe that you just shoved its nose in its own crap, all you can do is rest secure in the knowledge that you did everything you could do to alert the dog to the existence of its crap.

And of course, laugh at the stupid dog with crap all over its nose...
Now if only one could avoid getting crap allover their hands while pushing the dogs nose into it... But I for one fall for that one every time ;)
 

spinnekop

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I am not an experienced centipede keeper but i have to say, this thread is impressive :}
Some years ago I had some gigantea and a huge galapagoensis. I fed them all kinds of food (including baby mouse (pinkies) because the nutritional value). I admit having fed the galapagoensis a juvenile mouse once and I was surprised by the speed the mouse was captured and killed after first bite. The mouse pinkies however lived several minutes when the centipede was already eating them. I have to say I feld sorry for the baby mouse since they defenitely must have suffered so I avoided feeded live pinkies afterwards. After all, scolopendrids do eat dead food easily.
But the video's show clearly that mouse is not a natural food for scolopendrids. Even how big the centipedes are, it seemes a big job "forcing" the mouse in the good place to allow the centipede a smooth catch.

The video's are good example of how not to feed your centipede. All the manipulation with a rather rapid running mouse in the centipedes enclosure will stress your centipede and as everybody will agree, stress will reduce the animals livespan. (I felt more sadness for the centipedes than for the mouses used in the video).
But then again, this is my personal feeling. I can understand very well that people will feel more for the mouse and the reactions caused by the video's were to be expected.
Anyway, it is a good thing to feed your scolopendrids a variaty of foods so 'dead' mouse from time to time will do perfect !
 

Crimsonpanther

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i fed one mouse to one of my T's and i VOW never to do it again
it was disturbing to me at least. From now on nothing but crickets and other insects.
Good looking animals though , just hope the mouse dosnt cause any harm to them :eek:
 

CopperInMyVeins

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Can't you people just take the videos for what they are? They're interesting, ok, not everyone would do it, but it's still just feeding the animals. Also, the guy who went on and on about the mice suffering being eaten alive, those mice were both pumped full of plenty of deadly venom, and clearly dead before any eating began. Funny to say that they didn't have any way to escape the enclosed space, so it wasn't natural, if you don't like the idea of an animal's predator/prey interactions happing in an enclosed space, you probably shouldn't have any terrarium animals. In what situation is prey being fed to an animal in a terrarium not in an enclosed space? If you think the quick and efficient killing the centipedes did is so 'cruel" you should watch a video of a Mantis eating something, they don't have any venom. I could go on and on, but centipedes eat vertebrates in the wild, it's no more "unnatural" than feeding them anything else.
 

LukeC

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I really didnt like that video, partley because I have rats as pets (which I love with all my heart), just the thought of them being hurt in such a way makes me cry. If thats what you want to do, do it, Im not gonner stop ya. I would never feed live verts (the risk isnt worth it). It's ilegal over here in the UK to feed live verts, I don't know if it's the same in the US or the EU. But noone's going to know what you do in your own home, so really its only for the zoos which is due to the public sake.

A lot of peolpe say its not natural for the mice to be fed like that, but it's not natural to keep rats or mice in cages, or tarantulas or cows or bears or whatever in captivity. Cows, pigs etc have been domesticated for more meat or milk which is un-natural, but only because we say it is. Humans have evolved to do this to the wild animals (abit over many hundreds or thousands or years, if we didnt we'd all staved due to the world's masive human population(I'm guessing here).

At the end of the day everyone has their own opinion, no one is right-no one is wrong or everyone is right-everyone is wrong.

Take care everyone :cool:
 

cashewman1

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Ok welllll many many posts to read and i will be frank, i have not read them all what so ever, i also do not keep Pedes. But As for mice feedin gI have no qualms with it. Some may say its unnatural and fine, I also agree with Luke as to say it is not natural to wall up a wild creature in a cell its whole life but we do it anyways. The only unnatural part would be the fact that if it came to fight or flight, A mouse is a flight creature and they have no where to flee in an enclosure, o well big deal no loss but a moss, yes they feel pain, For most mice its probably short and quick as envenomation would kill a small vertebrate quickly.

As for crickets not feeling pain- I am no wear near 100 percent sure but I was under the impression they had a dorsally located nerve chord to transmit stimuli/response interactions ie:pain. idk just my 2 scents, The way i see it is just because u cant hear the death crys of a cricket but you can of a mouse, doesnt mean the cric isnt having them.

I have fed my scorps one mouse each and Will continue to traditionally as a treat for them and to keep their deit nutrionally varied.

and as for untopic post, Videos were neat, havnt watched a Pede on the hunt before, very intersting
 

T- RANCHOOLAAA

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I couldn't do it

Interesting but I could not do it. I have seen them take down lizards and other rodents on TV. Normal people have nightmares about those things. Imagine one of those the size of a croc or gator?

I did enjoy a documentary on The Discovery Channel about "THE GIANT TARANTULA". A BLondi ate a snake!:eek: But then the locals caught,cooked, and ate the BLondi!:eek: :?
Anyone ever try roasted BLONDI??

Forget us collectors for a moment. I think a lot has to do with how people think "bugs" eat other bugs. Not bug eats mouse,or bird,whatever. A average person that sees a "BUG" take down a rodent and eat it is usually shocked. The first time I heard of T blondi's eating mice, I was like "NO WAY"!!

All I know is WE meaning us "CRITTER COLLECTORS" we are all going to hell when we die and then become "feeder items" in our second life.:confused: {D {D {D {D

Interesting thread!
 

Scorp guy

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*sigh* this thread has gone on for AGES!!! once again, 1,000's and 1,000's of mice die by BEING PUTE INTO AN ENCLOSURE, JUS LIKE THE ONE IN THE VIDEO, BUT FOR SNAKES! its really not much different, they are put into an enclosed area to die and be eaten, are being fed to snakes, lizrds, etc. maybe he DID do it for amusement, bbut that doesnt change the mouses death anymore than being fed to a snake because the snake needed it to live, 2 little mice die and we all cry over it:rolleyes: im sure at least one of you that think that was wrong, HAVE fed live rodents and verts to SOMETHING before, like anoles, mice, rats, smaller spiders, rabbits, and other things...
 
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