Thinking about giving handling a try with my L.parahybana, but she's MEAN. Any tips?

[Raine]

Fran has a point. Wild animals are unpredictable. While I do believe a T can acclimate or tolerate handling there is zero guarantee you won't get bit. I read some of the bite reports online. A pet moving caused the T to bite. A sneeze or cough. An accident. A sudden, unexplainable bite for no reason. Fact is, it can happen. Though if you're careful and do it properly it really lessens the chance of. Just know you are taking responsibility for the T and yourself. If it bites you and you freak out and fling or drop it you'll kill it. If you get bitten it's not going to be all peaches and cream. Guess the question you have to ask is why you want to handle and is it worth taking the risk to try and acclimate your LP to it?

I handle my G. rosea and while she has never kicked hairs or even threat displayed I still remind myself every time before I pick her up that she could bite me. I prep myself for that because I refuse to drop or fling her if she does it. I got tagged by a 9' snake and it hurt horridly but I stayed calm and got it off without hurting it. Can't say it was the same for me. You take the same risk handling snakes, really. Sometimes something just sets them off and they'll bite.

I won't handle a T that is continuously mean. I won't make any effort to try and get it used to me. If it wants to stop and calm down on its own I'll be more receptive to the idea. But handling a large spider that you are quite obviously nervous around and that is mean is just a bad idea all around. You or the T will get hurt. If you weren't nervous/afraid of the T I might say start with the gloves and long sleeves if you're determined to hold your LP. But fear and tarantula handling don't mix well. At all.

I'm getting my LP soon, a 2" female. Just because I handle my G. rosea doesn't mean I will handle her. My G. rosea is calm and docile--but still could bite me--and if my LP is not I'm not going to push her until, or if, she is ready.

 

[Arakatac]

Fran has a point.

So do a lot of other posters, with much more positive attitudes.

This is phenomenal - we've got one guy who claims his 15 years of experience cancels out somebody else's, and a self-described neophyte presuming to lecture us on handling!?!?!?!? DON'T MAKE ME LAUGH!

Pikaia!! Are you out there??? You're a real expert. I'll go with what you prescribe.

Jebbewocky, see if you can get in touch with Stanley Schultz - his opinion, when all is said and done, is golden.

And you're right, this thread needs to be euthanized.

P.S. I've been considering taking my feisty LP out for a romp for the first time too, and after this roller-coaster of a discussion, I think I might just do it!

 

[Fran]

So do a lot of other posters, with much more positive attitudes.

This is phenomenal - we've got one guy who claims his 15 years of experience cancels out somebody else's, and a self-described neophyte presuming to lecture us on handling!?!?!?!? DON'T MAKE ME LAUGH!

Pikaia!! Are you out there??? You're a real expert. I'll go with what you prescribe.

Jebbewocky, see if you can get in touch with Stanley Schultz - his opinion, when all is said and done, is golden.

And you're right, this thread needs to be euthanized.

P.S. I've been considering taking my feisty LP out for a romp for the first time too, and after this roller-coaster of a discussion, I think I might just do it!

My attitude is quite possitive, I dont know what you are on, buddy.

Whos caneling out what? I think we have a missunderstaning problem.

The only thing I said is that wild animals are impredictable and that no matter how many times you have handle a tarantula before that doesnt meant it will never bite you out of the blue.For no apparent reason.

I thought I was typing in English.

 

[Hobo]

Pikaia!! Are you out there??? You're a real expert. I'll go with what you prescribe.

Jebbewocky, see if you can get in touch with Stanley Schultz - his opinion, when all is said and done, is golden.

After a quick search with my good buddy, the search function, Here's his most recent take on the matter. Here's the thread if you want to read it in context and with other people's comments. Here, I'll even quote it for you if you don't like clicking links.

... Conditioning to be handled is impossible for Theriphosids as far as the scientists and hobbyists of today know. ...

Sorry. I hate to rain on your picnic, but this is dead wrong. We've been doing it for decades. So have dozens, hundreds, maybe thousands of others.

This is particularly evident with the members of the Subfamily Theraphosinae, although members of other Subfamilies are by no means exempt. This Subfamily contains many of the more popular New World genera such as Aphonopelma, Brachypelma, Grammostola and a host of others.

In these it's not uncommon for newly captured individuals to bare their fangs and even attempt to bite the first time they are picked up. (Note that "picking up" is vastly different from merely herding them onto your outstretched hand. A lot safer for the tarantula too.) However, most species will, with successive handling, tame down quite nicely. With being handled in such fashion fewer than a dozen times (and for many, significantly fewer than this) they soon fail to turn to face the approaching hand, or adopt a defensive posture, or extend their fangs, or even struggle once in your grasp. There are clearly cases where they almost seem to enjoy being picked up, if projecting such a vertebrate emotion on them could be entertained as valid.

As I mentioned above, members of other Subfamilies also can be so conditioned as well. Pinktoes (genus Avicularia) come to mind. When first brought into captivity or first handled they tend to be rather high strung to the point of defecating at their handler (or anyone else standing nearby!), or even leaping from the hand. But with repeated, gentle handling many will tame to the point where they may be gently herded onto one's hand and allowed to "climb the ladder" without any overt signs of panic or concerted attempts to flee or jump.

Avicularia serve as a particularly good example because while being handled they tend to be rather jumpy and high strung, perhaps hyperactive would be a good description of it. And one might advance the argument that this hyperactivity is an indication that they are ill at ease with human contact and are, therefore, still not conditioned. I discount that, however, because after being handled several times, their level of hyperactivity declines, they stop defecating (if they ever did in the first place), and they stop leaping as though trying to escape (again, if they ever did in the first place). Say what you will, but this sounds a lot like conditioning to me. I'm sure Pavlov would have accepted it.

... Have you considered the possibility that your self confidence with the animal hasn't made handling easier? ...

Undoubtedly! But, my self confidence would have little to do with the spider failing to erect it's fangs, for instance.

Asserting that tarantulas (or any other creature for that matter) are incapable of being conditioned implies that they are incapable of changing their responses to varying conditions or stimuli. The fact is that those creatures that are incapable of such changes are the ones that become extinct. There are far to many species of tarantulas living in far too many niches spread over far too much geography and far to much of geological time for that to be true.

End of Biology 101 class. Quiz on Friday.

Also, Don't kill the thread. With this post, it has become significantly more useful!

 

[jebbewocky]

Yep, it was my re-reading the TKG that gave me the idea to attempt it in the first place. Forgive my lack of a formal citation, since we are all aware of the book I am quoting.

If these tarantulas are introduced to the human touch (or at least being manipulated) at about the size where they are just able to reach across a coffee cup, and if they are handled or manipulated regularly, perhaps once a week thereafter, they tame down quite nicely and are just a little more defensive about the procedure than most smaller species. Such handling and manipulation, however, should take place only under the most rigidly controlled circumstances and in such a way as to make a fall absolutely impossible.

Had I posted this section, perhaps we may have been able to avoid some of the upset in this thread.
This is precisely why I wanted to avoid the handling vs. no-handling debate, and restrict it to "how?" rather than "should I?" Now, granted, these are still wild animals, and prone to be inconsistent, which I think everyone is aware of, and I took for granted. I was not looking to make her a cuddly wuddly hand-pet, but perhaps calm her down a bit should I need to help her in the future.

I will absolutely admit that my LP is more than twice the recommended size to start handling, but I thought it was worth a shot.

After a few attempts "L'il Mama" has made it clear that she is NOT to be handled, she will interpret any attempt at handling as a foreign invasion upon her person, and she will defend herself accordingly. That is her right as a wild animal, and if something should go wrong and she needs my help, I will still try to give it. If her wild nature makes such assistance impossible--that's life.

 

[Pociemon]

Absolutely, the things he points out in this text, is very hard to ignore, especially the point of them being capable of changing their responses to different stimuli. Of course to an extent.

 

[Scorpionking20]

Perhaps if you are still inclined to handle her you could get her out of the container. Get her out of the container by cupping her (which, if you are really afraid of her, should give you some confidence) Afterwards you could take her to a bathtub (all holes sealed, etc of course) and see how her temperament becomes once out of her home.

It's possible she will be less aggressive, giving you an opportunity to acclimate to any careful handling you originally had planned. If that worked over succession, you may give me a cookie.

If you get bit, don't hold it against me! There's a good chance she'll be more open to handling once you get her out though. If she is still more aggressive in the tub though, I'd recup her and put her home to let her be. You could always try a few times to see if it changes anything, but if you repeat this a few times with no change, then it'd probably be best to let her live the fish life of no touching.

Good luck to the both of you. I hope you'll make a wonderful couple.

 

[jebbewocky]

SK: I had the same idea today during lunch. I'll give it a go, and then if that fails...wait until next molt.
EDIT: Just tried it. Tame as an eight-legged kitten.
I tried handling her from hand to hand, but she wouldn't go for it. No threat poses, no attempts to bolt, just non-violent non-compliance. Right now she has a (very slight) stress curl going on, but nothing more severe than that. Just handled her for a minute or two. I was wearing gloves, plastic goggles, a sweatshirt, and a bandanna over my face. Main reason I stopped was overheating. From her reaction none of this was necessary, but I've been badly haired before and didn't intend to repeat the experience.

I think she may not have liked the gloves very much.

 

[briarpatch10]

T jacking

SK: I was wearing gloves, plastic goggles, a sweatshirt, and a bandanna over my face.

Maybe she just thought you were a gang banger trying to T jack her!

 

[Scorpionking20]

SK: I had the same idea today during lunch. I'll give it a go, and then if that fails...wait until next molt.
EDIT: Just tried it. Tame as an eight-legged kitten.
I tried handling her from hand to hand, but she wouldn't go for it. No threat poses, no attempts to bolt, just non-violent non-compliance. Right now she has a (very slight) stress curl going on, but nothing more severe than that. Just handled her for a minute or two. I was wearing gloves, plastic goggles, a sweatshirt, and a bandanna over my face. Main reason I stopped was overheating. From her reaction none of this was necessary, but I've been badly haired before and didn't intend to repeat the experience.

I think she may not have liked the gloves very much.

I thought that would work (Ts calm down when they are "disoriented" from being out of the cage) Glad it worked for you! If it builds your' confidence you'll be a better caretaker. Can't take care of something you are afraid of.

Anyways, good for you. I just wish somebody took a picture of you with all the accessories! That would be priceless.

If you are intent on getting her "used" to you, if that term is applicable, you may want to try that a few more times. Just don't hold her daily! I'm not one to hold my Ts (Unless they run on me during maintenance or something) but I think occasional handling, if safely done, can be acceptable. Daily though...I think that may put enough stress on that they can't re-acclimate properly. If that happens they can refuse food, water, etc.

One last time, good for you man! Glad I could help out (if I did)

PS: Don't use gloves. You may itch, but take it like a man. It's safer for the spider that way, and you have more awareness of what the T is doing. Gloves can lead to a lesser grip for the T, and if they do decide to bite (even to hold on they if they slip or whatever) their fangs can get stuck and damaged on the glove. Since you will still get bit anyway, there is less complication for the T if they bite.

As for the hairs...eh. Part of having a giant spider I guess.

 

[jebbewocky]

No intent on doing this daily.
This is as much about acclimating me as it is her.
Maybe next time I'll have my wife take a video.

 

[Scorpionking20]

No intent on doing this daily.
This is as much about acclimating me as it is her.
Maybe next time I'll have my wife take a video.

Please do! I would love to see that outfit, and even more importantly, your' spider!

 

[Protectyaaaneck]

My tip: Don't handle.

 

[Protectyaaaneck]

I thought I was typing in English.

No, "impredictable" is not in the English language.

 

[Fran]

No, "impredictable" is not in the English language.

Unpredictable. Dont be a smartass.

 

[Protectyaaaneck]

Unpredictable. Dont be a smartass.

Sorry, couldn't help myself.

 

[jebbewocky]

I intend on handling her gloveless eventually.
I am particularly sensitive to these hairs is the main problem for me.

 

[Singapore_Blue1]

And respectfully, your experience doesnt mean much.In the least.
I have been myself in the hobby the same ammount of years; that doesnt mean anything.
In those 15-16 years you might have handled 50 times, or 150 times. You might have done it 2 minutes each time or 5 or 10.
The sentence " you dont stay lucky 15 years" is absolutely subjective.

You can handle quite aggressive T's and not get a bite... Then the next time you get bit. 10,15 30 years later or the second time.

Wild animals are impredictable.

Ok lets first address the fact that I handle my T's on a daily basis for the most part. There are exceptions at times but I am very consistent about taking them out on a regular basis. Now when I take them out i am usually watching TV or cleaning cages, feeding, that type of thing. The amount of time they are usually out of there cage is anywhere between 15min and up to a couple of hours if I am watching a movie for instance. Now for someone who doesn't touch there T's your quite opinionated for not having any hands on experience in this matter. So discussing this subject with you is pointless due to your lack of experience in handling T's. All your comments and points are scientific and none of them come from your own personal experiences. (FYI science is not always correct and sometimes they miss things) Now the fact that I have handled all these "defensive" T's and not been bit and have been in the hobby for 15 years speaks for itself provided all the information I have just told you to be accurate and truthful. Now for someone to not take 15 years experience seriously and to totally disregard what they have to say is ignorant especially when you have no experience in the area yourself. To be honest your the one that is missing out on not being open minded and able to experience these awesome animals up close and personal. Your loss buddy..

 

[SK8TERBOI]

Ok lets first address the fact that I handle my T's on a daily basis for the most part. There are exceptions at times but I am very consistent about taking them out on a regular basis. Now when I take them out i am usually watching TV or cleaning cages, feeding, that type of thing. The amount of time they are usually out of there cage is anywhere between 15min and up to a couple of hours if I am watching a movie for instance. Now for someone who doesn't touch there T's your quite opinionated for not having any hands on experience in this matter. So discussing this subject with you is pointless due to your lack of experience in handling T's. All your comments and points are scientific and none of them come from your own personal experiences. (FYI science is not always correct and sometimes they miss things) Now the fact that I have handled all these "defensive" T's and not been bit and have been in the hobby for 15 years speaks for itself provided all the information I have just told you to be accurate and truthful. Now for someone to not take 15 years experience seriously and to totally disregard what they have to say is ignorant especially when you have no experience in the area yourself. To be honest your the one that is missing out on not being open minded and able to experience these awesome animals up close and personal. Your loss buddy..

While I agree with Both sides of this argument I still lean more on the side of do not handle if they don't want to be

 

[Singapore_Blue1]

And respectfully, your experience doesnt mean much.In the least.
I have been myself in the hobby the same ammount of years; that doesnt mean anything.
In those 15-16 years you might have handled 50 times, or 150 times. You might have done it 2 minutes each time or 5 or 10.
The sentence " you dont stay lucky 15 years" is absolutely subjective.

You can handle quite aggressive T's and not get a bite... Then the next time you get bit. 10,15 30 years later or the second time.

Wild animals are impredictable.

Also the following T's have a message for you. You would have to follow through with the message yourself since they disinclined to acquiesce to your comments. Just so your clear on what they are. The two on each one of my hands are Psalmopoeus irminia and Lampropelma nigerrimum. Also the other T's in my hands are P. metallica is the pokie. And the The one that I am using two hands on is a
Xenesthis sp. White. And the other T is a Pamphobeteus ultramarinus.