Tarantula vs. Mouse Video - Compfused

[edesign]

cerbera, to clarify, what is so provocative about your statements to me is that you believe there is some sort of universal set of 'rights' that animals are entitled too as well as your concept of what rights are. to me rights are not an abstract idea of entitlement I grant myself, but rather a real set of rules granted by my government (to whom I pay taxes) that are written into laws which are enforced directly. The key part is the force that sustains rights (police, military, courts, ect.) is the only thing keeping them around. When i say i have rights it is not a belief it is a very real fact.

so you're basically saying a select few people of the entire population have the right to tell you what you have and don't have a right to? i hope not.

as for the animals not having rights, only humans...define "animals" because last time I checked that is exactly what a homo sapien is. By your own statement you are being a hypocrite. Or is this going to turn in to a religious viewpoint by which God tells you it is right so it must be so?

Furthermore, I believe that if people like you would take the energies they put into improving the lives of animals into improving the lives of humans then the world would truly be a better place

i completely agree...a better place for us would ultimately be a better place for the other animals.

i didn't read the entire thread, just the last page...i don't agree with what the owners of the T did with the mouse, but I'm not going to sit there and tell them they're wrong. I'm going to assume that the T knew how big the prey was and had the option of turning it down (for the time being), if your mouth overrides your brain then Mother Nature will take care of you how she sees fit. That's like giving an adult a lit firecracker with a long fuse...if they throw it away they made the smart choice as they were educated about the situation and it's possible consequences. If they hold it and it blows a finger off...tough luck. Granted this is all based on me assuming that the T realizes how large the prey is and that large prey can present a safety problem. Slings will refuse food if it is too large, why wouldn't adults? I hope this made sense as i'm halfway rambling lol

 

[jbrd]

WISH it was mute!! Do you mean moot?

oops typo, my bad.

 

[MizM]

oops typo, my bad.

It was a GOOD typo, this point SHOULD be mute!!!

 

[blacktara]

I dunno

That mouse never had a chance if you ask me

Anyway, it's off topic, but from one of the sites that had that video, THIS is hilarious

 

[Mister Internet]

Yes they do have rights, Rastro. They are alive, which makes them different to stationary objects. That alone would give them the right to a life NOT exploited by us for our own entertainment, in my book, just as you would no doubt award yourself the 'right' not to be exploited by anyone else. The faliure to realize this by certain individuals is perhaps the most worrying thing I have seen on this board. Is it not obvious that if we take something from its home, and move it somewhere else because we want to look after it, for whatever reason - we OWE it to that animal to do it well, and maintain a respect for its life.

(emphasis added by me)

I don't have a huge rambling post about this, I just find it funny that you believe that ALL animals have rights, among them the right not to be exploited, yet you keep captive T's. Keeping animals in captivity is exploitation by definition, so you either need to make your peace with being your animals' KEEPER, or give them away.

 

[Cerbera]

Round and around, and around we go...

(emphasis added by me)

I don't have a huge rambling post about this, I just find it funny that you believe that ALL animals have rights, among them the right not to be exploited, yet you keep captive T's. Keeping animals in captivity is exploitation by definition, so you either need to make your peace with being your animals' KEEPER, or give them away.

Already dealt with this point, Mr Internet - see post 25 on this very thread.

I admit without hesitation that there are times when I feel morally reprehensible for choosing to have T's in my house. Had I known then what i know now about how they are collected, transported and sold, I might not have done. But for whatever reason I did, I did, so now my job is to live up to that repsonsilibilty. And that'll also be the reason I can't give them away. The only way that I can GUARANTEE that their every need will be attended to for the rest of their lives, is to keep them, and the responsibilty, with me.

But please give some thought to the following. There is, I believe, a massive difference in the LEVEL of exploitation going on between those who are content to watch their T's, doing what they do, when they want to do it, and those that repeatedly get them out to show them off and handle them, for no other reason than being 'entertained'. And it is this that I believe is unecessary and / or overly exploitational. My point was trying to highlight those differences, and that is all...

Dammit - have I been tempted back into posting on this thread again ?

 

[FryLock]

Keeping animals in captivity is exploitation by definition, so you either need to make your peace with being your animals' KEEPER, or give them away.

:clap: :clap:.

Already dealt with this point, Mr Internet - see post 25 on this very thread.

I admit without hesitation that there are times when I feel morally reprehensible for choosing to have T's in my house. Had I known then what i know now about how they are collected, transported and sold, I might not have done. But for whatever reason I did, I did, so now my job is to live up to that repsonsilibilty. And that'll also be the reason I can't give them away. The only way that I can GUARANTEE that their every need will be attended to for the rest of their lives, is to keep them, and the responsibilty, with me.

But you at least disagree to agree and that is good .

But please give some thought to the following. There is, I believe, a massive difference in the LEVEL of exploitation going on between those who are content to watch their T's, doing what they do, when they want to do it, and those that repeatedly get them out to show them off and handle them, for no other reason than being 'entertained'. And it is this that I believe is unecessary and / or overly exploitational. My point was trying to highlight those differences, and that is all...

Yup i agree there, if you check some of the older thread's were spiders and other inverts had been injured or killed by live vert prey items (there arn't many but it does happen) you will see why most ppl don’t bovver with arguing the against case anymore , for me if you get a spider killed doing it it’s your own dumb luck/bad judgement, often the best lessons are those learned though pain.

Dammit - have I been tempted back into posting on this thread again ?

Spare a thought for the rest of us to we had to click on it again too .

 

[GoTerps]

I wonder, Cerbera, do you eat animals? Just curious.

 

[DR zuum]

Give it a rest on the animal rights this and that,we use animals daily we have since the cave.The point on keeping animals is without doubt moot.As you are inflicting your will upon them its exploitation for your gratification,wrap your mind around it,whether you keep them in clover and honey or feed them live mice,which they do kill and consume in the wild by the way.Most of you have never even seen a T in the wild some of you talk like they are these fragile defenseless creatures its almost laughable.

They are predators geared for killing they take down whatever they can find/catch and overcome/kill and most of the time they win.Since this thread went up,on weekends that i have time from work i've been going out in the evenings to the wild pops here,eventually i'll catch what i'm looking for on tape and then post it.You cant think for everybody or denigrate them because they dont embrace your philosophy of keeping/husbandry.

Because in truth its just your opinion,whether in the majority or minority thats all it is,nothing more nothing less,no moral superiority conferred from on high,just a opinion.Not right Not wrong,just your personal little viewpoint.And the people who choose to feed live mice or whatever have a right to thiers whatever it is,realism in keeping,recreating the struggle of nature,or just plain old self indulgence.

 

[Cerbera]

And the people who choose to feed live mice or whatever have a right to thiers whatever it is,realism in keeping,recreating the struggle of nature,or just plain old self indulgence.

And all the time there are people like those you describe above, there will be a need to present another viewpoint. This is the whole point of these boards, surely? I'd taken it as read that I am aware my opinion is worth as little or as much as anyone else's. If I have denigrated anyone, and i would dispute that - its an attitude that I denigrate, not individuals, and I believe I am as free to do that as you, or anyone else is. If, however, my comments have been left open to misinterpretation as personally insulting, then of course for that, I apologize unreservedly.

 

[Mister Internet]

I admit without hesitation that there are times when I feel morally reprehensible for choosing to have T's in my house. Had I known then what i know now about how they are collected, transported and sold, I might not have done. But for whatever reason I did, I did, so now my job is to live up to that repsonsilibilty. And that'll also be the reason I can't give them away. The only way that I can GUARANTEE that their every need will be attended to for the rest of their lives, is to keep them, and the responsibilty, with me.

So does this mean you plan on never purchasing additional tarantulas again?

But please give some thought to the following. There is, I believe, a massive difference in the LEVEL of exploitation going on between those who are content to watch their T's, doing what they do, when they want to do it, and those that repeatedly get them out to show them off and handle them, for no other reason than being 'entertained'. And it is this that I believe is unecessary and / or overly exploitational. My point was trying to highlight those differences, and that is all...

I understand the difference, but the corollary point also remains: exploitation is exploitation, period. There's no exploitation that's "better" than others, IMO. I'm one of those who believes that all life is NOT equal, and that due consideration must be given to the level of sentience a certain organism has. I feel no qualms whatsoever about dismembering a cricket. I would feel horrible about throwing a kitten into a wood chipper. What's the difference? Well, I'm fairly certain the cricket would neither know nor care that its limbs were being pulled off, and that it was dying. The kitten, however, I KNOW has a higher central nervous system, and will feel pain if I throw it into the wood chipper. I agree it doesn't speak well of a person who only uses invertebrate animals for "showing off", but to say they are somehow immoral because of it is going to far, I think.

 

[Sheri]

Interesting point, I suppose MR. I. ButI don't believe that all exploitation is equal.

However, I would make the point that the difference lies in the root of the motivation. What is the person getting out of it? Where does the pleasure lie in seeing a T attack the mouse.

I've recently decided to sell off the majority of my collection because seeing a T in a terrarium does little for me now after seeing them in the wild.

 

[Cerbera]

Mr Internet - I don't know enough about your namesake to even attempt the level of quotes within quotes that you do, so I'll answer the questions straight, if you don't mind...

1. So I won't be purchasing additional tarantulas then ?

Yes, but only captive bred, and never from a pet store. Only from trusted hobbyists who know the entire history of their animals, and whom I have known personally for some time.

2. Yes, exploitation is exploitation, full stop.

But you cannot tell me that hand rearing an animal, and treating it well, attending to its every need etc etc is exploitation in anything like the same league as going to a pet shop, buying a T, throwing it round in a cardboard box for 5 days, pulling its legs off, and eventually killing it through neglect, starvation, or something else suitably hideous, for absolutely no reason at all.

My point rermains the same - I merely believe life should be treated with respect, and for all the interesting points raised here, some of which have changed my mind about aspects of what i think, the main theme remains unchallenged...

After reading Sheri's post, I imagine I'd be the same. If I could see T's in the wild, that's where I'd really like to see them...

 

[Sheri]

More on exploitation is exploitation - and if we were to extend that to crime and law... (which isn't that much of a stretch even in animals terms.)

There would be but one sentence for all crimes.

Kinda like comparing a puppy mill to a dedicated dog owner.