Tarantula vs. Mouse Video - Compfused

[Angelo]

i found it here: http://gorillamask.net/mousespider.shtml

i was thinking a blondi was gonna pop out...but it was a rosie!!!

i really doubt that keeper is experienced...probably just some kid who bought it for the excitment. o well.

 

[Big and Hairy]

I would have to agree that I did feel a little sorry for the spider. I have decided to play it safe and keep my tarantulas on a diet of crickets and an occasional pinkie for the bigger ones. However, on occasion I do feed my 6" A. Genic female a young green anole lizard. These little guys are pretty much harmless to a big tarantula when compared to mice. Because of their speed and climbing ability, green anoles bring out the true speed in a spider and it can be pretty fun to watch and see which one is faster. The anole's are smart too, and I've seen it take nearly an hour before the spider finally caught it.

 

[Cerbera]

the property game...

In reference to the debate at hand, it's true that the spider and any damage incurred was totally that person's business. I can't tell them how to treat their property.

And that would be true if we were talking about 'property'. But we're not - we're talking about life, which no-one owns. And you should say something when you see life being abused like this. Is abuse too strong a word? it sits with me about as comfortably as the word cruelty does. A spider like that should not have to fight for its life like that against something that has so much potential to harm it. Especially in an environment where it can't flee if it wants to, and even moreso, when its only for the entertainment thing. We all know they do fine on crickets. When will people learn that these animals are NOT here for our damn entertainment.

And while I'm at it - why, please is the sound so important. Why would you want to hear an animal crying for its life as it dies ? I do worry about people sometimes...

 

[cacoseraph]

When will people learn that these animals are NOT here for our damn entertainment.

well, why *did* you buy yours?

 

[Cerbera]

Why did i buy mine ?

Because I felt I was responsible enough to keep one not only alive, but also happy and content, without severely limiting the instincts it would have in the wild. It was never there to amuse me - sure I get enormous enjoyment and amazement from watching my spiders, but its always on their terms - i am up when they are, and I watch them doing what they do, and that is all. There is no need to 'show them off' to other people, get them out to show people, or to even disturb them unecessarily.

I think it comes down to respect. Do you respect the life you are pledged to protect, or do you view it as something you own, and therefore can play god with ? Personally speaking, I have enough respect for their lives to know that claiming to 'own' them is insanity, but as important, is the respect for the responsibilty to their well being that I have taken on by the relatively selfish gesture of choosing to 'keep' one in the first place. this, perhaps is the one consession I have made. And I'm not entirely guilt-free that I did. But I remain clear - I don't own them - I look after them, and I do it to the absolute best of my ability. Were I to fail them in any way now, through neglect, or not doing enough research, it would be bad enough, but to risk their safety and happiness for my entertainment would be a human tragedy of titanic proportions.

 

[becca81]

Why did i buy mine ?

It was never there to amuse me - sure I get enormous enjoyment and amazement from watching my spiders, but its always on their terms - i am up when they are, and I watch them doing what they do, and that is all. There is no need to 'show them off' to other people, get them out to show people, or to even disturb them unecessarily.

This is what *most* people mean when they say that they get enjoyment from their spiders. The people who do stupid things with their Ts are in the minority.

As for showing them to others - who doesn't? It's partly about teaching others about the hobby and discrediting myths about tarantulas. I don't get mine out, but I do talk about them and show them (in their tanks) to other people.

 

[Cerbera]

This is what *most* people mean when they say that they get enjoyment from their spiders. The people who do stupid things with their Ts are in the minority.

As for showing them to others - who doesn't? It's partly about teaching others about the hobby and discrediting myths about tarantulas. I don't get mine out, but I do talk about them and show them (in their tanks) to other people.

I hope you're right, Becca, I really do. But I find I have to say these things / make these points where other people don't, and I feel its important that someone does. I see a hell of a lot of posts here (not so much on the UK boards, but there too) concerning injuries and cruelty to animals caused by either gross stupidity, or well intentioned lack of research on behalf of the keeper and often, these people lament the death of their animal, everyone on the board pats them on the back and says 'there there, oh dear' etc etc, and no1 even sees fit to point out that the loss could have been avoided, had there been some level of basic respect involved. So when I see these posts, it might as well be me that does actually raise that issue. And that is all. I don't mean to offend anyone, and I agree with you - the points I am making should be obvious to everyone, and hopefully, are to most, but for those for whom this transparently isn't the case, the comments need to be there...

As for watching them, and showing them to people in their cages - of course there's nothing wrong with that - I'm with you 100% that to educate, and introduce others to these amazing animals is a good thing to do - i was referring more to the people that prod them out of, or deprive them of burrows to be on display, shine hot, bright lights on them, move them all the time for photos, feed them dangerous food just to watch the spectacle of the kill - that sort of thing - handling them just to test ones own bravery, or even worse, to exhibit it to others.

I notice you, too, were moved to say something at the very top of this thread, concerning the spuriousness of feeding prey that big to a rosie. I was just moved to say a bit more

 

[rastro111]

one thing you have to realize is the mouse in this movie is a genetically watered down lab mouse and is completly domesticated. they have almost no ability to defend themselves when compaired to a wild cousin of equal size. did you see how it just stood there inches away from the t looking at it. no defense mechanisms or insticts at all. while i wouldnt say i advocate feeding a mouse to an equally sized t (and certainly wouldnt try it on my animals) my money would be on the T everytime.

also i find it disturbing when people think that animals should be held to similar ethical standards as humans. i dont advocate torture or mistreatment but animals do not have the right to anything especially domesticated ones.

 

[MizM]

At the conference, Darrin gave a lecture about feeding strictly invertebrates to T. blondi. Seems their fangs fall out! The cheliceral area has magnesium, and invertebrates have lots of calcium, which interferes with the magnesium.
(PLEASE forgive my shoddy explanation of the phenomenon, but I'm worn OUT!)

At any rate, mice are definitely a rare treat for my blondi now, she's getting hissers and crix.

 

[Cerbera]

Ok - I accept that a lab mouse is, to some extent, a different, and less hostile ball game than a wild specimen. But then I read this...

...animals do not have the right to anything especially domesticated ones.

Aah. thank you, Rastro - someone demonstrating concisely, and perfectly my previous point about attitude, and lack of respect for life. A person who can say that about animals - that they have no rights, is a perfect example of the kind of keeper I am talking about in my previous posts on this thread.

Yes they do have rights, Rastro. They are alive, which makes them different to stationary objects. That alone would give them the right to a life NOT exploited by us for our own entertainment, in my book, just as you would no doubt award yourself the 'right' not to be exploited by anyone else. The faliure to realize this by certain individuals is perhaps the most worrying thing I have seen on this board. Is it not obvious that if we take something from its home, and move it somewhere else because we want to look after it, for whatever reason - we OWE it to that animal to do it well, and maintain a respect for its life.

Now without going into some whole other debate, where I'd point out that actually none of us have any rights to anything, and the fact that some of us think we do is a sparkling advertisement for ego's out of control, I shall quietly bow out, and remove myself from a situation I feel it is pointless battlling...

Thank you, to those who did, for listening.

All i was really trying to say was - I think it's great when people look after their spiders well, and I wish the few that don't, would. Now what was provocative about that ? I shall end my participation in this particular thread by returning strictly to topic, and saying - nicely shot video

 

[Randolph XX()]

At the conference, Darrin gave a lecture about feeding strictly invertebrates to T. blondi. Seems their fangs fall out! The cheliceral area has magnesium, and invertebrates have lots of calcium, which interferes with the magnesium.
(PLEASE forgive my shoddy explanation of the phenomenon, but I'm worn OUT!)

At any rate, mice are definitely a rare treat for my blondi now, she's getting hissers and crix.

that's really interesting. Is that the only case for T.blondi or does it aplly to other Ts?

 

[FryLock]

one thing you have to realize is the mouse in this movie is a genetically watered down lab mouse and is completly domesticated. they have almost no ability to defend themselves when compaired to a wild cousin of equal size. did you see how it just stood there inches away from the t looking at it. no defense mechanisms or insticts at all.

Domesticated rat's and even mice will still turn the tables when they get the chance, most feeder rodent's that have killed or maimed the animals they have been offered to are domesticated farmed for the use as feeders.

 

[Windchaser]

that's really interesting. Is that the only case for T.blondi or does it aplly to other Ts?

It was also observed with A. genics. It would be a safe assumption that if this theory is true, that it would apply to most, if not all, other T's.

 

[Sheri]

The fangs just fall out? Like out of the blue? One at a time? Or were they losing them within the same general time period?
Are they regenerated with the next molt?
After how many years with strictly invertebrates was this observed?
And in how many specimens?
What about naturally small species, the dwarves, who are unlikely to take larger prey?

I am surprised by this information - especially in relatively short life-spanned species too.

*Runs to buy pinkies*

 

[becca81]

At the conference, Darrin gave a lecture about feeding strictly invertebrates to T. blondi. Seems their fangs fall out! The cheliceral area has magnesium, and invertebrates have lots of calcium, which interferes with the magnesium.
(PLEASE forgive my shoddy explanation of the phenomenon, but I'm worn OUT!)

At any rate, mice are definitely a rare treat for my blondi now, she's getting hissers and crix.

Okay - I'm a little confused. I'd think that vertebrates have lots of calcium, but not invertebrates (hence adding calcium to crickets..). And you said that you're giving mainly "hissers and crix," so I'm guessing that vertebrates (mice, etc.) are not good for T. blondi? :?

 

[Windchaser]

Okay - I'm a little confused. I'd think that vertebrates have lots of calcium, but not invertebrates (hence adding calcium to crickets..). And you said that you're giving mainly "hissers and crix," so I'm guessing that vertebrates (mice, etc.) are not good for T. blondi? :?

Yes, that was a typo. The problems were observed for tarantulas who had a diet mainly consisting of vertebrates. Pinkies have approximately 15 times the calcium of invertebrate prey items.

Sheri, you don't need to run out to buy pinkies.

 

[FryLock]

Im guessing this only applies to T.blondi as I fed a B.albop and a B.smithi for around 9 years on pre killed pinks and fuzzy’s with no invert prey at all the smithi is dead (17 years from sling) but the B.albop’s still going over 10 years now of a pink/fuzzy roughly every 3-6 months.

 

[Windchaser]

Im guessing this only applies to T.blondi as I fed a B.albop and a B.smithi for around 9 years on pre killed pinks and fuzzy’s with no invert prey at all the smithi is dead (17 years from sling) but the B.albop’s still going over 10 years now of a pink/fuzzy roughly every 3-6 months.

What you observed could also be something similar to smoking. Smoking has definitely been shown to be detrimental to ones health. However, there are folks out there who smoke like a chimney their entire lives and nothing happens to them. Others end up with a host of health problems. The evidence from two individuals from two different species is hardly proof that too much calcium is not a problem.

It should also be noted that the problems with fangs and calcium is only a theory at the moment.

 

[jdcarrel]

I saw this video on another board. I was pretty suprised when I saw how small the spider was when it came out because of how large the mouse was.

 

[FryLock]

That is true but it does seem odd that larger species would be negatively affected by a high amount of vertebrate prey when smaller one’s which would be a lot less lightly to feed on them do not seem to have fang loss/brakeage (at least for me and not always to the extremes of the two brachys it has to be said) I cancelled feeding 5 genic’s on a mouse only diet due to snake needs but they had seemed to do well from a year of age to sub adults 18 months later fed mice only.

Although in the case of many wild Theraphosids there wild vert diet maybe mostly “lighter” foods reptiles/amphibians/birds with less dense bones and less calcium, in which case it may be the over feeding of mice ect that’s the problem.