tarantula pricing

[Toxoderidae]

Maybe you are very close minded and judge mental too @VanessaS. You seem to think you're a above everyone with this attitude that no one should own spiders or animals at all since they will kill them and at they should always be super expensive (obviously exaggerating here, but what you are saying is so close to that.)

 

[Trenor]

Maybe you are very close minded and judge mental too @VanessaS. You seem to think you're a above everyone with this attitude that no one should own spiders or animals at all since they will kill them and at they should always be super expensive (obviously exaggerating here, but what you are saying is so close to that.)

This isn't really helpful man. Just because we don't see the same way on a point doesn't mean name calling is needed.

 

[Toxoderidae]

This isn't really helpful man. Just because we don't see the same way on a point doesn't mean name calling is needed.

I know, it just seems awfully rude of Vanessa to say stuff like that, saying that prices should stay high and that all people will do is wind up abusing and killing the animal.

 

[TownesVanZandt]

This whole discussion is rather stupid in my opinion! The price of an animal is not at all connected to the amount of care it gets. Sure, if you put a steep price tag on an animal fewer people will buy it, but when all comes to all, prices are relative. For a poor guy in Detroit a 5$ spider might be expensive to afford after paying the rent, the food and whatnot and for a rich Saudi prince a 1.500$ spider will be cheap and count for nothing. The question really boils to whether richer persons are more compassionate towards animals and better suited to take care of them. I don´t believe so. It´s individual persons who keep individual animals, and the price doesn´t even come into the amount of care it gets!

 

[JJC]

Believe it or not, the entire world does not revolve around reptile pricing.

And that's a good thing. I was just mentioning my particular point of reference.

what if that dealer paid a breeder $7 each for them? Just as thrilled? Or would you rather buy them from someone who char

Personally I would rather buy it directly from the breeder. I can't think of an instance where I would not be more comfortable getting an animal directly from the source, be it a T, a frog or a dog. And ideally that would put more money into the pocket of the persons whom are the foundations of the supply. As far as cost, I don't know of many, if any, breeders/retailers/etc who disclose their cost of production or profit margin. If the price was market reasonable, I'd be fine with it, again, because I'd be putting money (hopefully) directly back into the hobby.

So please, explain to me how low prices, competition, and availability have harmed the hobby?

I don't believe it has or does. I was simply posing the question as a response to some of the earlier posts which seemed to propose that low, or "wholesale", prices have had a negative effect. I actually agree with you that competition and availability are beneficial. It seems to reason that exposing more potential hobbyists to a wider range of affordable animals, the more likely some (or many) of them will participate in sustaining the hobby through collecting, care, breeding,etc.

 

[cold blood]

Maybe you are very close minded and judge mental too @VanessaS. You seem to think you're a above everyone with this attitude that no one should own spiders or animals at all since they will kill them and at they should always be super expensive (obviously exaggerating here, but what you are saying is so close to that.)

I do see your point of view, but...

This isn't really helpful man. Just because we don't see the same way on a point doesn't mean name calling is needed.

I also agree here, because if you've been around at all, you know that Vanessa's views may differ from yours, but her dedication and passion for the hobby is without question, so its worth it to go the extra mile and at least see where she's coming from. Her opinions, while not necessarily your or my opinions, are certainly not without value. Everyone's individual life leads them to their points of view, and she's seen a lot of negative/sad things in her time....so while I may not view things exactly the same, I'm also certainly not offended or bothered by her personal viewpoint. I'll give you my viewpoint....

I sell spiders on the cheaper end because;

1. When I was starting out expansion, despite being capable and experienced, cash was the only thing holding me back, and I really really appreciated those selling ts cheaper (or even free)....Despite being a seller, I still maintain a buyers mentality and an appreciation for "bang for the buck". Just because someone doesn't have deep pockets, doesn't mean they aren't capable keepers with just as much passion as the next guy...Just as an owner with deep pockets doesn't guarantee a good life for any animal. I see cost as an irrelevant point when it comes to how the animal is cared for, passion and genuine interest is more important to me....in fact, the more $ one often has, the more "disposable" cheap things are often seen.

2. Back then, there were a few sellers (or just users here) that went out of their way to help me out, even giving me ts, and the appreciation I still have for all those people and the ts they set me up with that allowed me to be in the position I currently am hatching sacs out pretty regularly will never be forgotten. Those people went the extra mile to help me out when I needed it, and I like the idea of paying it forward and helping out when, where and who I can. To all that have helped me in the past, a big thanks! I don't see charging the top possible dollar as helping anyone out or paying anything positive forward. Its more understandable for larger dealers with a lot more on the line, and they're not going away because some people are giving better deals.....if that were the case, no one would buy used cars at a dealer, they'd just shop private sellers....yet, just like used cars, private breeders are never going to have that much effect long term on the larger dealers....heck, a lot of dealer stock comes from private dealers that aren't willing to take the time to sell privately.

3. As a hobby breeder, its not my full time job, and when you have several different sacs of slings, it can get very time consuming doing maintenance, keeping moisture levels perfect, and feeding hundreds of slings multiple times a week, so I sell things cheaper, priced to sell is what this economy would call it. I'd rather not sit on them till they were juvies.

On top of that, I stopped selling locally (which I did briefly) and focused my sales here on AB, this IMO, ensures that as many of them as possible, do in fact, end up in the "right hands". I can also say that just about every (if not every) even fairly new keeper, has gotten pages of housing and as much husbandry info from me as I possibly could provide, I go out of my way to ensure that the ts I sell are properly cared for....I even see a lot of them posted on people's pic threads, which is always nice (trenor for example has an ezendami I sold him looking consistently fatter than it ever was with me). I also get updates from many of the people I have sold to, so just because someone is selling ts cheaper, doesn't mean that the seller's heart is in the wrong place, the stock or advice is sub-par or that he/she isn't going above and beyond to ensure the health of the stock they raised.

I think that there's a lot more keepers that are good and dedicated people out there, sure there are exceptions, and they draw all of our ire (and attention), but those aren't the people I choose to focus on....and I also reserve the right to not sell to someone if I see red flags. Just as I have not sold ts to people that just didn't have the experience for certain species, and these buyers appreciate that honesty as it makes it obvious that $$ isn't the only thing that matters.

For me, and many sellers who offer cheaper ts, its not all about the money, it truly is, all about the hobby and their desire to give back....and I'm shocked anyone would complain about that. I literally have never in my life heard anyone complain that they got too good of a deal on something they wanted...not once....except maybe this thread.

 

[Exoskeleton Invertebrates]

How about we take this into consideration as well.... Although we try to provide as best we can food, water, shelter for are tarantulas has anyone had a say baby versicolor (or any other species) die? If you have not then you probably have not kept many multiple species. The fact is they can and will just die (probably even more so in the wild through preditors, elements, deforestation, etc...) No one wants this, but it is a fact in our hobby and we can only hope our sling species makes it to adult hood and if we buy a juvie or adult we will have less time (of course some species are hardier then others, but it can happen to any). For example, I just had one of my beloved Acanthoscuria sp. "Para Mongo Zebra" immature male die. Freekeshly he managed to position himself into a ball and puncture his own abdoman with his fang...Rest in peace. With all that stated .....

.....I wonder how many losses dealers or those who buy in bulk occur weekly let alone monthly. I am sure there are many many costs the new hobbiest or onesie twosie hobbiest can not comprehend. Save the spider, Save the price, Save the customer service... "imagine" all the spiders dying daily Aha-ah . However, if it was not for many of the breeders and the hobby then many of the spiders would go extinct.

Take the building of the Panama Canal in my home Country http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2016/08/24/481431/Iran-Latin-America-Nicaragua-canal-Zarif https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicaragua_Canal http://financialtribune.com/article...nian-firms-interested-nicaragua-canal-project I am sure most could care less they are crushing or are going to crush thousands of tarantulas....Glad I grab as many Nicaraguan Curly hair as I can, will provide them with wonderful living conditions, and will continue trying to breed to get them out in the hobby (I certainly won't value them as a 10.00 or freebie either!).

 

[viper69]

Okay, from what I gather from everyone's arguments is the following.
When a person is making an impulse purchase of an animal that they know absolutely nothing about - how much that animal costs is NEVER taken into consideration. How expensive that impulse buy is going to end up being is NEVER prohibitive in the purchase of that animal. When someone makes an impulse buy of an animal that they know nothing about they NEVER even take into consideration how much that animal costs initially and will NEVER walk away because that animal is too expensive for them.
That is what I'm getting from all these responses and that is just not logical.

I can only speak for myself. I never once suggested nor implied a purchase was an impulse buy in the context of my previous posts in this thread.

 

[magicmed]

I do see your point of view, but...



I also agree here, because if you've been around at all, you know that Vanessa's views may differ from yours, but her dedication and passion for the hobby is without question, so its worth it to go the extra mile and at least see where she's coming from. Her opinions, while not necessarily your or my opinions, are certainly not without value. Everyone's individual life leads them to their points of view, and she's seen a lot of negative/sad things in her time....so while I may not view things exactly the same, I'm also certainly not offended or bothered by her personal viewpoint. I'll give you my viewpoint....

I sell spiders on the cheaper end because;

1. When I was starting out expansion, despite being capable and experienced, cash was the only thing holding me back, and I really really appreciated those selling ts cheaper (or even free)....Despite being a seller, I still maintain a buyers mentality and an appreciation for "bang for the buck". Just because someone doesn't have deep pockets, doesn't mean they aren't capable keepers with just as much passion as the next guy...Just as an owner with deep pockets doesn't guarantee a good life for any animal. I see cost as an irrelevant point when it comes to how the animal is cared for, passion and genuine interest is more important to me....in fact, the more $ one often has, the more "disposable" cheap things are often seen.

2. Back then, there were a few sellers (or just users here) that went out of their way to help me out, even giving me ts, and the appreciation I still have for all those people and the ts they set me up with that allowed me to be in the position I currently am hatching sacs out pretty regularly will never be forgotten. Those people went the extra mile to help me out when I needed it, and I like the idea of paying it forward and helping out when, where and who I can. To all that have helped me in the past, a big thanks! I don't see charging the top possible dollar as helping anyone out or paying anything positive forward. Its more understandable for larger dealers with a lot more on the line, and they're not going away because some people are giving better deals.....if that were the case, no one would buy used cars at a dealer, they'd just shop private sellers....yet, just like used cars, private breeders are never going to have that much effect long term on the larger dealers....heck, a lot of dealer stock comes from private dealers that aren't willing to take the time to sell privately.

3. As a hobby breeder, its not my full time job, and when you have several different sacs of slings, it can get very time consuming doing maintenance, keeping moisture levels perfect, and feeding hundreds of slings multiple times a week, so I sell things cheaper, priced to sell is what this economy would call it. I'd rather not sit on them till they were juvies.

On top of that, I stopped selling locally (which I did briefly) and focused my sales here on AB, this IMO, ensures that as many of them as possible, do in fact, end up in the "right hands". I can also say that just about every (if not every) even fairly new keeper, has gotten pages of housing and as much husbandry info from me as I possibly could provide, I go out of my way to ensure that the ts I sell are properly cared for....I even see a lot of them posted on people's pic threads, which is always nice (trenor for example has an ezendami I sold him looking consistently fatter than it ever was with me). I also get updates from many of the people I have sold to, so just because someone is selling ts cheaper, doesn't mean that the seller's heart is in the wrong place, the stock or advice is sub-par or that he/she isn't going above and beyond to ensure the health of the stock they raised.

I think that there's a lot more keepers that are good and dedicated people out there, sure there are exceptions, and they draw all of our ire (and attention), but those aren't the people I choose to focus on....and I also reserve the right to not sell to someone if I see red flags. Just as I have not sold ts to people that just didn't have the experience for certain species, and these buyers appreciate that honesty as it makes it obvious that $$ isn't the only thing that matters.

For me, and many sellers who offer cheaper ts, its not all about the money, it truly is, all about the hobby and their desire to give back....and I'm shocked anyone would complain about that. I literally have never in my life heard anyone complain that they got too good of a deal on something they wanted...not once....except maybe this thread.

There's not a button to describe how I feel about this post. So I'll just say that was brilliant, informative, and inspiring. Well said sir.

@VanessaS is amazing and her opinions are always going to be valued in my mind, I dunno where any doubt even came from.

So many of you guys with so much passion and dedication, that's what's important. You're fighting opposite sides of the same coin. There will always be people who take a living creatures for granted, not much you can do about that other than make sure that kind of mentality doesn't end up anywhere near here. Obviously not everyone is going to have the heart of @VanessaS or the passion of @cold blood , the experience of @viper69 or the dedication of @EulersK the vision of @Poec54 or the sheer awesomeness of that @magicmed guy. But what we can do is show the people that do happen to come by this forum that these animals are amazing, interesting, and deserve the respect and research that keeping any living animal brings. It's not "just a spider" like a dog isn't "just a dog"

Because I have to tell you that I have bought a number of spiders over the years - from individuals and dealers - and I have never been asked anything about care.

You have inspired me when I start selling to include a small basic species specific care sheet, along with the url to this forum.

It couldn't be hard to write up a small care sheets for the sling/juvie/sub/adult phases of life for the species you chose to sell. Thank you @VanessaS for the thought!