tarantula pricing

John Apple

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so that being said in the title....
lets hear a some pros and cons on wholesale prices invading the retail area of our hobby
 

magicmed

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There's a multitude of pros, such as newer hobbiests more likely to jump in due to a lower start up cost, the ability to keep multiple species that at one time may have been a high priced collection, and the ability for breeders to expand their available stock, which puts more gorgeous spiders in a lot of hobbiest price ranges.

The only cons I see are 1. The devout breeder has to lower prices to compete, but I think that's a fair trade with the species variety that they see now as opposed to years ago (from what I understand)

And 2. The uneducated hobbiest has easier access to a potentially dangerous spider that he/she may not understand. Of course that risk will always be there, and a little research can make a world of difference
 

viper69

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so that being said in the title....
lets hear a some pros and cons on wholesale prices invading the retail area of our hobby
Have you seen wholesale prices available for the average hobbyist that didn't require a significant purchase amount (like 500-1000$) ?

If you have, who is the seller?
 

Poec54

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'Wholesale pricing' as in us gradually getting to European retail prices? "Invading"? That's a ridiculous term. The hobby's much larger in Europe because prices are lower and more people can afford to buy spiders. There's only a miniscule segment of animal people in any country that are going to spend $50 to $100+ on a 1/2" sling. Dealers who were selling in the US 10 years ago made some good money, when the surge of new tropical species started coming in as CBB from Europe. Rare, pretty, new species, and supplies were limited. But the supply's slowly been growing & those prices aren't sustainable indefinitely. As time goes on, it's been constricting the hobby's growth in the US.

The European model is based on volume: sell a lot of spiders at moderate unit prices. The US model has been to sell fewer spiders at higher unit prices. Eventually things are going to equalize, we've been seeing it start to happen in the last few years. I've been talking to spider breeders/dealers for the last two decades. Some accept that prices will always come down after new introductions have been in the hobby a while (which is how it works in every plant and animal hobby). Others try to maintain the initial prices as long as they can, believing that 'X' species is a $75 sling, no matter how many people are breeding it and how many are on the market. There's some unhappy sellers claiming some species 'have been ruined' by competition and lower prices. And they're the same ones complaining about all the unsold spiders sitting on their shelves. Look at what the average person spends: a sling or two plus overnight shipping (usually the only way to get a live arrival guarantee). That can easily cost $100+. That's a lot for two fairly common baby spiders.

Most dealers don't have the space or labor to breed everything they sell (hundreds of adults, many thousands of slings), so they buy a large part of their inventory from collectors/breeders across the country at wholesale prices, which are much less than retail. After years that, more and more breeders are cutting out the middleman and selling direct to the public, at prices that are in between wholesale & retail. That was bound to happen. The classifieds here are full of those. In any business, if you want to maintain prices that are on the high side, there's always going to be people selling for less. That's what's happening. A few dealers don't like it, but tens of thousands of spider buyers do. The European model works, those species aren't 'ruined.' There's more money in the hobby there: that's driving the collecting trips for people coming back with small breeding groups of newly discovered species, that are in turn bred and sold in Europe, the US, Canada, etc. Dealers in the US had some 'gold rush' years, and do to that success, a lot of people were inspired to get in on it and make some money too. Prices are going to fall as supplies grow. Economics 101. No mystery to it. The wheels were set in motion when the first new species were imported into the US: rare, new and expensive, eventually becomes commonplace and affordable.
 

John Apple

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interesting replies for sure....
who are the sellers....look at the classifieds
I see problems for retailers that have been doing this for some time as their stock may drop by more than half the value
pet store problems ....yeah would love to see phoneutria and sicarius in petsmart NOT !!!!
mislabeled and unidentified tarantulas.....avics and vagans anyone
while yes there are 'some' pros but this may put some dedicated breeders and retailers out of business...
what if the cost of feeders goes up....?
this all makes me think of a certain idiot raising a spidershowcase kane a few years back....wanting to offer wholesale to the public to put all us old timers and retailers out of business...
but then maybe im looking to much into it and maybe not.
personally ...latrodectus phoneutria haplopelma poecilotheria pterinochilus amongst others must not be so easy to axcess.
Those are my thoughts as I am a decades long hobbyist that will be around for decades longer for the simple fact that I enjoy this hobby no matter what prices may be.

another problem with the USA hobby verses the European hobby is that here in the USA there are more idiots....plain and simple....like it or not .
take facebook for example ....look at all the keyboard cowboys that will tout whatever 'knowledge' they may preach as the word....
trying to get a penis toting homosapien to listen to reason is rather difficult....then there is yuotube
 
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magicmed

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403
interesting replies for sure....
who are the sellers....look at the classifieds
I see problems for retailers that have been doing this for some time as their stock may drop by more than half the value
pet store problems ....yeah would love to see phoneutria and sicarius in petsmart NOT !!!!
mislabeled and unidentified tarantulas.....avics and vagans anyone
while yes there are 'some' pros but this may put some dedicated breeders and retailers out of business...
what if the cost of feeders goes up....?
this all makes me think of a certain idiot raising a spidershowcase kane a few years back....wanting to offer wholesale to the public to put all us old timers and retailers out of business...
but then maybe im looking to much into it and maybe not.
personally ...latrodectus phoneutria haplopelma poecilotheria pterinochilus amongst others must not be so easy to axcess.
Those are my thoughts as I am a decades long hobbyist that will be around for decades longer for the simple fact that I enjoy this hobby no matter what prices may be.
I don't think anyone is actively trying to take down the old timers or big guys, but that's just kind of inevitable in the evolution of the hobby IF the "old timer" doesn't adjust. I think most people that are trying to lower prices of a lot of common species are doing it FOR the hobby. To spread the animals to people that may not have been able to before. Now i think that's awesome for NW species, some OW I feel should be a little higher priced almost to advocate that they are meant for the experienced hobbiest. Of course once again if people did research, that wouldn't be an issue.

As far as feeder prices rising, it won't happen, in 20 years cricket prices have stayed about the same. There will always be multitude of feeders dealers, as well as personal breeders for their own use to keep prices well down.

Petsmart is going to do what they're going to do, we can't stop them, that shouldn't dictate the hobby.
 
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AphonopelmaTX

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I'll add my 2 cents on this from the buyer perspective in a question. Why should I pay more for species X from a long time established business when I can get the same thing cheaper from the guy/ gal who just wants to sell a few from their collection or runs a hobby business? Keeping spiders and inverts is a hobby and part of that hobby is selling and trading for different species. From what I can tell, the long time established sellers don't really advertise that much and put up anything resembling a marketing campaign to convince people that they should buy from them. As a consumer with money to burn on some spiders, I'm looking for the best deal. If Business A can't convince me to pay more for their stock over Joe Spiderkeepr, then my money isn't going to the business. As far as I can tell, most species are bought from the same source(s) whether domestic or foreign imports. When one seller has Species Y, shortly after several other sellers offer then same species. There's no competition in the invert selling business so as a consumer, I'm just going to look for the person or business who has what I'm looking for at the cheapest price. No business has made an attempt to get my business and hold it.
 

magicmed

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Just wanted to add this as well, I'm actually THRILLED that we are seeing lower prices. I remember before I got into the hobby looking at prices at petco thinking man it would be cool but that's a pricetag.

If not for breeders such as @cold blood in particular I probably wouldn't be in this hobby yet. I would just have my scorpion (who is awesome) but coldblood was the first one who truly welcomed me to this hobby by showing me some amazing prices and service. For that I can't thank him enough and all I can hope to do is spread his name to every new hobbiest I see here or in daily life. Hell, he's inspired me to start breeding myself to not only make a little bit of extra money, but to spread some cool spiders across America. And isn't that what's best for the hobby? So maybe someday I can inspire the next one? It doesn't have to be a battle, we can all enjoy each other's company and spread the animals we love raising.
 

viper69

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who are the sellers....look at the classifieds
That's too vague. Are you saying all the sellers in the classifieds are offering whole sale prices?

personally ...latrodectus phoneutria haplopelma poecilotheria pterinochilus amongst others must not be so easy to axcess.
Agreed, but there's no way to stop that unless the government steps in, and we can call predict how well that would work. The reptile industry has a myriad of issues now, the T industry would end up the same or worse because most of the species kept are not from the USA.

When one seller has Species Y, shortly after several other sellers offer then same species
I've always noticed this. Right now I've seen this with B. klaasi. Almost all the major sellers have this rarely sold species currently.

Hell, he's inspired me to start breeding myself
I have a list of species, let me know when you are ready.
 
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Matabuey

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Have you seen wholesale prices available for the average hobbyist that didn't require a significant purchase amount (like 500-1000$) ?

If you have, who is the seller?
My friend in Texas, got 4 adult A.metallica for $48 from a wholesaler.

That's pretty cheap isn't it? Not all of their available stuff is that price though.
 

viper69

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My friend in Texas, got 4 adult A.metallica for $48 from a wholesaler.

That's pretty cheap isn't it? Not all of their available stuff is that price though.
It's a great price if Captive Bred. Were they Wild Caught or Captive Bred?

My point to the OP was I haven't gotten the impression that wholesale prices (regardless of source/s) are generally found on the classifieds in the overwhelming majority of prices listed. Even one of the retailers, who typically sells less than all other retailers doesn't have wholesale prices on their list.

Are there some great deals on the classifieds at times, sure. IME it's the rare great deal that is actually at wholesale pricing levels.
 

Matabuey

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It's a great price if Captive Bred. Were they Wild Caught or Captive Bred?

My point to the OP was I haven't gotten the impression that wholesale prices (regardless of source/s) are generally found on the classifieds in the overwhelming majority of prices listed. Even one of the retailers, who typically sells less than all other retailers doesn't have wholesale prices on their list.

Are there some great deals on the classifieds at times, sure. IME it's the rare great deal that is actually at wholesale pricing levels.
This is what he sent me, I was just curious - I live in UK, so not like I'm going to buy anything.

https://imgur.com/a/JNhrr

I think they're CB, as the WC ones say WC. But who knows, it wouldn't surprise me if some businesses weren't truthful.
 

Ratmosphere

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It sucks because I was offered $100 bucks for my two tarantulas. She said the retail of a 3" Brachypelma smithi is only 50 dollars when I bought mine for 85 dollars. :hurting:
 

Poec54

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I see problems for retailers that have been doing this for some time as their stock may drop by more than half the value.

That's not true. These aren't machine parts that can sit for years on a warehouse shelf. Spider dealer's stock should be moving in & out, and the new coming in are at a lower cost. It's to their advantage to sell them cheap & fast, than to price it high and sit on them for months. That runs up their costs with containers, feeding, watering, shelving, losses, etc. That equates to expensive materials and labor, and points out the fallacy of that approach. Some don't want to sell at the current prices of their competition, and in the process, they run up their costs by maintaining a lot of slow-moving slings. It creates a vicious circle, as then they have to charge more, because they now cost them more. They get a higher selling price, but are they really coming out ahead?

And if they were to sit on some spiders for a year or two (god forbid!), they're bigger and worth a lot more than slings. No one has the actual cost of their inventory drop. What can happen is the hoped-for selling price may not be as high, but there's enough profit margin built-in to cover that. The issue is: Was the anticipated selling price realistic, with the ever-changing market? You can figure that every year more will be bred and imported, and that the market price will drop a notch. If you don't allow for that in your calculations, you may be disappointed occasionally. It's not that that species is 'ruined', it's that someone thinks they can maintain the same prices when there's ten times the supply.

When a species' price is coming down, dealers are paying breeders less for it. They'll say: "I can't give you as much for those this time, because I've seen another dealer selling them for less." As Aphonopelma TX said, if there's 10 or 20 people online selling the same spiderlings, are you going to pick the higher-priced ones?

We need dealers, importers, & breeders for this hobby to survive. They're performing a great service and deserve to make enough profit to make it worthwhile for them. We're here in this hobby and on this forum because of them. Their success has inspired others to follow them, and the number of people breeding and selling has grown significantly. It's unavoidable that the initial prices will come down and level off for each species. This isn't always easy to accept for some of the people who were importing/selling that during the golden years of the mid 2000's. Nothing stays the same for long.
 

Haksilence

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Supply vs demand. Profit margins vs profit rate.

There is nothing anyone can do to impede, prevent, alter, or stop these things in any business. Sellers are only going to be able to sell for what the. Buyer will pay and the buyer will only pay the rational supply/demand driven price.
 

viper69

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This is what he sent me, I was just curious - I live in UK, so not like I'm going to buy anything.

https://imgur.com/a/JNhrr

I think they're CB, as the WC ones say WC. But who knows, it wouldn't surprise me if some businesses weren't truthful.
The species I'm MOST familiar with in terms of pricing-- do not have wholesale pricing at all, not even close.

If someone told you those are whole-sale prices, they are liars. Those are retail prices.

She said the retail of a 3" Brachypelma smithi is only 50 dollars
That's not true, they sell for more. You weren't ripped off @ 85$.
 
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louise f

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another problem with the USA hobby verses the European hobby is that here in the USA there are more idiots....plain and simple....like it or not
Haha, guessing that you never been in Denmark before, lots of jerks here:D And do notice what a small country we are.:astonished::eek: The US is a wayyy bigger country, that makes it much more acceptable to have idiots right ? :D
 

Exoskeleton Invertebrates

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interesting replies for sure....
who are the sellers....look at the classifieds
I see problems for retailers that have been doing this for some time as their stock may drop by more than half the value
pet store problems ....yeah would love to see phoneutria and sicarius in petsmart NOT !!!!
mislabeled and unidentified tarantulas.....avics and vagans anyone
while yes there are 'some' pros but this may put some dedicated breeders and retailers out of business...
what if the cost of feeders goes up....?
this all makes me think of a certain idiot raising a spidershowcase kane a few years back....wanting to offer wholesale to the public to put all us old timers and retailers out of business...
but then maybe im looking to much into it and maybe not.
personally ...latrodectus phoneutria haplopelma poecilotheria pterinochilus amongst others must not be so easy to axcess.
Those are my thoughts as I am a decades long hobbyist that will be around for decades longer for the simple fact that I enjoy this hobby no matter what prices may be.
<edit> Now, I have seen several prices listed that I think are very low on certain tarantulas from <edit> others in the past as well. <edit> Individuals have the right to buy tarantulas from who ever they wish. If they feel that the individual selling has the best interest of the tarantula, truly values the buyer, and their customer service is spectacular then they will be a return costumer. I often find that if the spiders are dirt cheap and we'll below what I feel their value should be then the service is usually dirt cheap.

One does not have to look much further then what dealers have 100% reviews and a stellar reputation in the hobby. Those are the dealers or sellers that I will do business with because I am almost guaranteed a positive outcome.

Once again history has repeated itself some wanna be dealer undercutting dealers who have put their livelihood and brought in species that we love so much.
 
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