southern black widow inquiries

[darkness975]

They are found in every state, even up north. But most commonly in the south and western regions.

 

[JonIverson]

Good heater testing and so far, so good. The females are smart as they stay right at the container base, where most of the heat emanates. The males, however, seem to want to hang out more near the top of their enclosures, where temps would be a lot closer to the room.

 

[darkness975]

Good heater testing and so far, so good. The females are smart as they stay right at the container base, where most of the heat emanates. The males, however, seem to want to hang out more near the top of their enclosures, where temps would be a lot closer to the room.

It's because they're looking to wander. They don't care about anything except one thing.

 

[The Snark]

It's because they're looking to wander. They don't care about anything except one thing.

Dang! Formatted that drive last night. I was saving it to show you.
A techical-eeze report, analysis, of the male spider, using Hesperus as test subjects. The analysis was done by computer programmers!
Essentially they reached the conclusion the male spider is running on a genetic code. A "rather simple" computer program with numerous fail safes equivalent to does not equal then stop.
Summed up, the male follows it's programming and nothing else. Follows the code precisely it mates, else = stop and it dies.
The computer model comparisons were essentially right out of Darwin's theories of natural selection but the selection is built into the male spider's DNA.
I'm really fuzzy on this part. Males released into a contained area executing a search pattern. They have a limited time frame during which they must mate or a fail safe kicks in. Failing tio execute the search pattern properly is another fail safe. Thus only the most robust males with a clean computer program will find a female. Once it does it executes the mating sub program then the program exits. Past mating the males no longer follow the search pattern. No further code instructions.

 

[darkness975]

Dang! Formatted that drive last night. I was saving it to show you.
A techical-eeze report, analysis, of the male spider, using Hesperus as test subjects. The analysis was done by computer programmers!
Essentially they reached the conclusion the male spider is running on a genetic code. A "rather simple" computer program with numerous fail safes equivalent to does not equal then stop.
Summed up, the male follows it's programming and nothing else. Follows the code precisely it mates, else = stop and it dies.
The computer model comparisons were essentially right out of Darwin's theories of natural selection but the selection is built into the male spider's DNA.
I'm really fuzzy on this part. Males released into a contained area executing a search pattern. They have a limited time frame during which they must mate or a fail safe kicks in. Failing tio execute the search pattern properly is another fail safe. Thus only the most robust males with a clean computer program will find a female. Once it does it executes the mating sub program then the program exits. Past mating the males no longer follow the search pattern. No further code instructions.

That is very interesting and based on the behavior of mature males it makes sense.

 

[JonIverson]

Well, wouldn't you know, it looks like the largest female, and the one where I was most confident that mating took place, appears to be making an egg sac today. Unfortunately, I've taken ill recently, so may have to just remove the sac this time around.

 

[darkness975]

Well, wouldn't you know, it looks like the largest female, and the one where I was most confident that mating took place, appears to be making an egg sac today. Unfortunately, I've taken ill recently, so may have to just remove the sac this time around.

They don't hatch overnight. Do you have any containers to use for the sac? If so you could throw it in there. I let them cannibalize until they are down to a manageable number. Say the last 10 or so.

 

[JonIverson]

They don't hatch overnight. Do you have any containers to use for the sac? If so you could throw it in there. I let them cannibalize until they are down to a manageable number. Say the last 10 or so.

Approximately how long do they emerge from the time the sac has finished construction? And how long can they stay in the one container until they reach a low number?

Well, it looks like one of the females has lived up to her name. Left one of the males in with her overnight and it looks like she's eating him today. I don't know whether or not he was successful though. The other female still flexes her abdomen and legs and tries to quickly go after him so I didn't leave him with that one. There's one male left now.

 

[darkness975]

Approximately how long do they emerge from the time the sac has finished construction? And how long can they stay in the one container until they reach a low number?

Well, it looks like one of the females has lived up to her name. Left one of the males in with her overnight and it looks like she's eating him today. I don't know whether or not he was successful though. The other female still flexes her abdomen and legs and tries to quickly go after him so I didn't leave him with that one. There's one male left now.

It happens in captivity when they can't get away.

Time for emergence depends on temps. Usually around 30 days , less in hot weather.

It takes about a month or so for them to cannibalize down to the last holdouts.

 

[JonIverson]

Been a while since my last update. What I thought was another male turned out to be an immature female. I suspected this since she was more than willing to accept thawed prey I introduced to her. She was quite small at first and I was unsure of her gender at that time. She's now about half the size of the three other females.

The one female who did mate with the male while he was alive has created another sac. I was ill the last time around, so froze and discarded the first sac, but this time I fashioned a heated enclosure and added the sac. I modified a spare deli container I had on hand, but have no others at this point. Added a clear window at the top, as well as a breathable filter, so that I can observe the young once they emerge and allow allow them air without escape. The heating pad only has limited size. There are clear 16 oz cups with lids that I may end up using. If using those, I could fit around 6 onto the pad. The firms with the deli cup breathable lids don't have lids that will fit 16 oz, so I'll probably make them myself.

My big issue is going to be feeding and I have been seeking out alternatives. Trying to keep a fruit fly culture going here is going to be both expensive, not to mention difficult because of the low temps. Since the adults, and even the immature, have all readily accepted thawed prey, why couldn't I just freeze small prey and use the same routine I use for the others? I could either obtain just one already prepared culture and freeze it, or seek out something like the smallest crickets or even the smallest meal worms. For my situation, this would be much easier than trying to keep cultures going. Just a thought......

 

[darkness975]

I suppose you could try it. I'm not sure how much nutrient loss might occur.

 

[JonIverson]

Update Jan 30: Nothing has emerged from the egg sac I placed into a separate heated enclosure in November. Mom has created yet another since then, but probably just going to remove and freeze. The heated enclosure ended up heating a bit cooler than I hoped with an average temp of around 62 F. I wonder if the coolness has delayed the hatching and emergence? Otherwise, the four adult females continue to do well and accepting the thawed insects.

 

[IntermittentSygnal]

Update Jan 30: Nothing has emerged from the egg sac I placed into a separate heated enclosure in November. Mom has created yet another since then, but probably just going to remove and freeze. The heated enclosure ended up heating a bit cooler than I hoped with an average temp of around 62 F. I wonder if the coolness has delayed the hatching and emergence? Otherwise, the four adult females continue to do well and accepting the thawed insects.

Why not try again with the new sack?

 

[JonIverson]

Almost three months later and still nothing has emerged from the sacs. There are five in a separate enclosure. Perhaps temps have been too cool, so awaiting consistently warmer weather to see what occurs.

On another topic, can someone tell me the best way to prevent the crickets and other critters in the freezer from becoming freeze dried? I have had them in resealable zip locs since September, but I believe some have freeze dried and of course no good for the widows.

 

[CRX]

Almost three months later and still nothing has emerged from the sacs. There are five in a separate enclosure. Perhaps temps have been too cool, so awaiting consistently warmer weather to see what occurs.

On another topic, can someone tell me the best way to prevent the crickets and other critters in the freezer from becoming freeze dried? I have had them in resealable zip locs since September, but I believe some have freeze dried and of course no good for the widows.

I haven't read all the previous thread. Is there a reason you have to freeze crickets? I've never heard of anyone doing this.

 

[JonIverson]

I haven't read all the previous thread. Is there a reason you have to freeze crickets? I've never heard of anyone doing this.

Yes, for several reasons, the main ones being: 1) closest pet store is 50 mi round trip who has them; 2) therefore I catch them, but they are only of the correct size by mid summer and then only last until the first frost so they are frozen. I think I've discovered the rehydration solution by just soaking them in warm water for an hour or so.

The question about the egg sacs not hatching still remains, however.

 

[CRX]

Yes, for several reasons, the main ones being: 1) closest pet store is 50 mi round trip who has them; 2) therefore I catch them, but they are only of the correct size by mid summer and then only last until the first frost so they are frozen. I think I've discovered the rehydration solution by just soaking them in warm water for an hour or so.

The question about the egg sacs not hatching still remains, however.

I take it you live in a rural location? I would hope. Otherwise, wildcaught crickets would be often full of pesticides. And even then, IMO its still a risk because they could carry parasites even without the issue of pesticides. Most wild animals carry parasites.

 

[darkness975]

Yes, for several reasons, the main ones being: 1) closest pet store is 50 mi round trip who has them; 2) therefore I catch them, but they are only of the correct size by mid summer and then only last until the first frost so they are frozen. I think I've discovered the rehydration solution by just soaking them in warm water for an hour or so.

The question about the egg sacs not hatching still remains, however.

You could use meal worms and keep in the fridge. They last months that way.

Regarding the egg sacs: consistent 62F is a bit on the cool side. I've had sacs delay hatching even in 68 - 72 F temps. Even sacs dropped from females that laid sacs that hatched prior.

 

[TJ 68]

Different Areas and Different Environments Cause Variables in Adaptation , Including Temperament. I have lived on The East Coast (US) from NY to Fla. A latrodectus In NJ Has a Different Temperament then one In SC . In SC Plumbers know That Wet Insulation is a Likely place to find a Handful to several Dozen "Black Widows" at a time. Its Common Practice to use a long stick to pull down the Insulation from a safe Distance because Down there They are Known to Bite the second they Fall on you. Have seen this first hand more than Once.
I do Believe the bite of the latrodectus has Been exaggerated. Nausea and Muscle Pain but even with multiple bites Nothing close to Death.
I Fully Respect your Expertise , Just wanted to relay my Exprience

 

[JonIverson]

@darkness975 thanks for your response. I have yet to have any of the sacs hatch. There are 3-4 in the container. Temps have still remained cool, so perhaps that is the reason.

I unfortunately lost one of the widows. Her abdomen shrunk and, even when provided food, she seemed to reject it. After a while, I found her dead. One of the other females is starting to exhibit the same behavior. I found both of them last summer/ early fall and they were fully grown, so perhaps passing from natural causes (old age). Not sure, but thought I would mention it and welcome your thoughts.