southern black widow inquiries

[JonIverson]

About two weeks ago, I removed my lawnmower cover and underneath was a southern black widow. After getting several false positives over the last couple of years, I was truly surprised when one decided to take up residence in my yard- and for the first time in 40 years that I know of!

After reading up a bit on them, I decided to try and keep her. I have her in a small aquarium with a custom lid I made so she couldn't escape- not that she can climb the glass walls anyway. There is a sandy bottom and I provided a stick that terminates in a V so she can make a web, which she has. I tried placing a cricket into the web, but it was too heavy and would fall to the aquarium floor right away, so I just started simply placing a cricket occasionally into the aquarium without going to the trouble to try catching it in the web. I didn't know if she would find the cricket, but the next day the cricket was belly up and dead. It looked a bit shriveled so I assume she got to the cricket.

Yesterday, I thought she was dying. She was her usual size in the morning, but by late afternoon I returned to find what I thought were detached legs and a much smaller body! Upon investigation, it appears that she molted (evidenced by the remains I see), something I completely forgot about with arachnids and the fact that I never kept one before! My first question is where to go from here? I placed a moist crumpled up paper towel into the aquarium bottom as well as a cricket about twice her size today. Don't know whether or not I should have so welcome any thoughts here.

Additionally, I wonder how often I should feed her? I have some other questions, but will wait for possible answers for these first and I thank you all in advance.

 

[CRX]

If she just molted, do not put any crickets in. Crickets are known to be very bitey and it could very well injure or kill her in this fragile post-molt state.

We have alot of widow experts on here, so I will let them answer the rest of your questions. Also get a spray bottle for misting for her water.

 

[JonIverson]

Thanks, I welcome further commentary from those in the know. Currently, she has hardly moved. I've changed out wet cotton balls several times, but don't know if she's drank from them or not. Is the damp cotton ball sufficient or should I be misting and if so how do I go about it (where should I mist, aquarium sand, side, etc)?

Her body continues to be about half of the original size. It's been three days since the molting. On your advice, I removed the cricket that was in there with her. Not sure when I should start feeding her again.

 

[JonIverson]

Well, today, she finally made a web between two sections of a branch that is in the aquarium. I took that to mean that she might be ready to eat, so tried introducing a cricket first, but none of the crickets tried would stay in the web and fell out. They were several times larger than her. She did her leg flexing when I tried to hold a cricket near her. I took that to mean get away. Later, I found an earwig. Much smaller and placed in the web. She went right over to it, bit it, and is in the process of a meal now. I guess she's intimidated by the crickets. Maybe she won't be once her body size again increases. Just glad that she ate. I do have some more questions, so hoping the weekend nets more responses. Winter is soon coming and I keep a cold house (around 55 F) so not sure what to do in that case. Have some spiderling questions as well.

 

[Westicles]

@darkness975 keeps them I'm more than positive. I see them all the time down here in MS, but have never kept one. Wait for her to respond or anyone else who can give you top advice!

 

[darkness975]

Well, today, she finally made a web between two sections of a branch that is in the aquarium. I took that to mean that she might be ready to eat, so tried introducing a cricket first, but none of the crickets tried would stay in the web and fell out. They were several times larger than her. She did her leg flexing when I tried to hold a cricket near her. I took that to mean get away. Later, I found an earwig. Much smaller and placed in the web. She went right over to it, bit it, and is in the process of a meal now. I guess she's intimidated by the crickets. Maybe she won't be once her body size again increases. Just glad that she ate. I do have some more questions, so hoping the weekend nets more responses. Winter is soon coming and I keep a cold house (around 55 F) so not sure what to do in that case. Have some spiderling questions as well.

They won't increase in size until they feed again. Give her a couple of days to harden up post molt. Spritz water from a spray bottle to drink and please feed an appropriately sized prey item, not something that is three times her size.

 

[JonIverson]

@darkness975 thanks for the info. She was able to consume the earwig yesterday and her body size increased a lot. I guess the first question is whether or not I should feed her again at this point, or wait and for how long? Not sure how large she should end up being.

I have other questions, but first I awoke to find her at the top of the aquarium this morning. Not sure how she got to the top as the aquarium has all glass walls unless she was able to climb one of the corners where there are silicone joints to hold the glass together. The silicone overlaps by probably 1/3" on each side. It looks like she is in the process of making a web between the top and the silicone as supports, so it looks like her web is sticking to the silicone alright. This is going to be a problem when it comes to feeding and maintenance. I have her out of the aquarium for now and in another container-- an inverted plastic jar with sand base. I'd really like to use the aquarium as it has much more room and easier to place sticks and such, but not sure what to do about the silicone sealed corners. Any suggestions welcome before I go on and thanks in advance.

 

[darkness975]

@darkness975 thanks for the info. She was able to consume the earwig yesterday and her body size increased a lot. I guess the first question is whether or not I should feed her again at this point, or wait and for how long? Not sure how large she should end up being.

I have other questions, but first I awoke to find her at the top of the aquarium this morning. Not sure how she got to the top as the aquarium has all glass walls unless she was able to climb one of the corners where there are silicone joints to hold the glass together. The silicone overlaps by probably 1/3" on each side. It looks like she is in the process of making a web between the top and the silicone as supports, so it looks like her web is sticking to the silicone alright. This is going to be a problem when it comes to feeding and maintenance. I have her out of the aquarium for now and in another container-- an inverted plastic jar with sand base. I'd really like to use the aquarium as it has much more room and easier to place sticks and such, but not sure what to do about the silicone sealed corners. Any suggestions welcome before I go on and thanks in advance.

They do that all the time. It's because they send out web lines and follow them to the top. I try to minimize the chances by not giving them decorations that go all the way to the top but it doesn't always work.

Let her abdomen decrease a bit before feeding again but do keep up with the watering. Is it an adult or juvenile?

I used to always use the nicer setups and for some I still do but for the majority I just use 32 oz deli cups now. I have too many hah. Always make sure there is at least one fake branch or some other item they can use as a refuge to web out from.

I keep several species of Latrodectus spp. and they all have similar behaviors and habits.

 

[JonIverson]

Thanks for the info and images. I'm trying to see how you provided air for them. With the aquarium, since I used a homemade wooden top, I drilled a bunch 1/32" holes. Well, I guess we're good on containment and feeding. Do you have to make sure any food added is carefully placed in the web, or can she get to it on her own? By the way, she is an adult that I caught in my backyard a few weeks ago.

Ok, on to the questions and I thank you in advance for your responses. Judging by your container quantity, it looks like you must raise them.

First question has to do with food. In some weeks, it will be too cold here to keep catching outdoor critters. Will she accept anything non-living and, if so, what would you suggest? If not, is there anything I might be able to order online for her food? Unfortunately, the closest pet store is 50 mi away one way!

Next question has to do with temperature. It will be 49-55 F here in a few months. Assuming she lives that long, can she survive these lower temps? Taking a guess, I would guess that she could but would eat far less? It will be tough to provide heating just for her, not sure if it will even be possible.

Between now and then, I suppose she may or may not lay eggs. I'm trying to decide if I want to allow those to hatch or not- if they are even fertile. If so, what sort of container(s) would be needed, temps, and food. Again, it will be quite cool in here soon.

Thanks again for taking the time!

 

[darkness975]

Thanks for the info and images. I'm trying to see how you provided air for them. With the aquarium, since I used a homemade wooden top, I drilled a bunch 1/32" holes. Well, I guess we're good on containment and feeding. Do you have to make sure any food added is carefully placed in the web, or can she get to it on her own? By the way, she is an adult that I caught in my backyard a few weeks ago.

Ok, on to the questions and I thank you in advance for your responses. Judging by your container quantity, it looks like you must raise them.

First question has to do with food. In some weeks, it will be too cold here to keep catching outdoor critters. Will she accept anything non-living and, if so, what would you suggest? If not, is there anything I might be able to order online for her food? Unfortunately, the closest pet store is 50 mi away one way!

Next question has to do with temperature. It will be 49-55 F here in a few months. Assuming she lives that long, can she survive these lower temps? Taking a guess, I would guess that she could but would eat far less? It will be tough to provide heating just for her, not sure if it will even be possible.

Between now and then, I suppose she may or may not lay eggs. I'm trying to decide if I want to allow those to hatch or not- if they are even fertile. If so, what sort of container(s) would be needed, temps, and food. Again, it will be quite cool in here soon.

Thanks again for taking the time!

For air I took a needle and punched air holes in the lids of the larger enclosures (clear food storage containers). The 32 oz deli cups have a fabric cover over the lids to allow airflow but prevent escapes. Unlike tarantulas their fangs are not strong enough to chew through the fabric.

Usually they can hunt on their own as long as the enclosure is sufficiently webbed up.

You can order small meal worms online. I use Rainbow Mealworms. If you want to ensure she takes the prey, you can use tongs to hold it near her in the web. If hungry, the vibrations will be sensed and she will start webbing it up.

49-50 F is pretty chilly and will likely kill it off if it's not raised. Mine are in the mid 60s to low 70s in winter and continue to feed, though they are noticeably more sluggish. In the wild they can overwinter in a type of diapause for a year or two but depending on how old she is and how exhausted from laying eggs and such it's fairly likely she won't. It's not that they can't survive those temperatures so much as in an artificial setting they can't seal themselves off the same as they can in the wild. A similar example would be dark fishing spiders (Dolomedes tenebrosus). They overwinter buried in leaf litter, logs, outdoor garage walls, and other similarly insulated locations. But in a tank just sitting out exposed to the ambient temperatures it's far less likely they'll make it. Their ability to survive lower temperatures is contingent upon them finding sufficient insulation from the elements.

If egg sacks hatch you'll have a lot of babies. Best thing to do is let them cannibalize for a while until they are down to a manageable number. Then separate the remaining ones into 32 oz deli cups with cloth lids like the ones in my picture. Give them a fake leaf or something to hide in and they'll web up the enclosure soon enough. They need very tiny prey when small. Flightless fruit flies are a good choice.

Slings are unlikely to survive low temperatures. The natural time frame for slings to hatch is during the warmer months. Mine are okay in the 60s as it mimics mid to late spring temperatures. But when you are talking temperatures in the 40s to low 50s that's a different story.

Yes those are all spiderlings in the second picture. I guesstimate that close to 100 hatched between the 3 egg sacks in that one container from that one female. They have the ability to store sperm and continue to lay egg sacks seemingly indefinitely. Some of my females that have been living solo for months or even years will still drop viable fertile egg sacks with healthy offspring hatching.

 

[Westicles]

They do that all the time. It's because they send out web lines and follow them to the top. I try to minimize the chances by not giving them decorations that go all the way to the top but it doesn't always work.

Let her abdomen decrease a bit before feeding again but do keep up with the watering. Is it an adult or juvenile?

I used to always use the nicer setups and for some I still do but for the majority I just use 32 oz deli cups now. I have too many hah. Always make sure there is at least one fake branch or some other item they can use as a refuge to web out from.

I keep several species of Latrodectus spp. and they all have similar behaviors and habits.

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That's quite a collection. Just curious, how did you get into widows?

 

[darkness975]

That's quite a collection. Just curious, how did you get into widows?

It happened randomly to be perfectly honest. I started with 1 which I thought was living on the edge back then. My fascination grew from there and once I figured out what I was doing it took off. Same thing with Tarantulas, Scorpions, and the rest.

 

[JonIverson]

Thanks again for the info. Well, today I fed her a cricket about 2x her size, the smallest I could find. She didn't hesitate long before biting and wrapping it. Now she's feeding.

I can't answer what happens when temps hover around 50 in a couple of months. Time will tell I guess. I'll try to attend to her the best that I can and keep my fingers crossed.

Curious about female longevity from what you said above. Can they really live for years? I've always read a lifespan of 1.5-2 years, but maybe being in captivity that increases like so many other animals.

Hard to tell what type of fabric you are using for the spiderling containers. If it's cloth, any special type or ?

Thanks and thanks again. Nice to be finding out a lot more than what usually comes along with the online images posted everywhere.

 

[darkness975]

Thanks again for the info. Well, today I fed her a cricket about 2x her size, the smallest I could find. She didn't hesitate long before biting and wrapping it. Now she's feeding.

I can't answer what happens when temps hover around 50 in a couple of months. Time will tell I guess. I'll try to attend to her the best that I can and keep my fingers crossed.

Curious about female longevity from what you said above. Can they really live for years? I've always read a lifespan of 1.5-2 years, but maybe being in captivity that increases like so many other animals.

Hard to tell what type of fabric you are using for the spiderling containers. If it's cloth, any special type or ?

Thanks and thanks again. Nice to be finding out a lot more than what usually comes along with the online images posted everywhere.

Check out Josh's Frogs or Rainbow Mealworms. They have the cloth lids and 32 oz deli cups.

1.5 to 2 years is pretty average for them. I've had some push 4 years old total but that's a rarity.

 

[JonIverson]

Been almost two weeks since my last post and she appears to be doing fine. She molted again after feasting on a larger cricket. This time, her abdomen didn't shrink nearly as much as the first time she molted. I waited a week and then fed her a cricket about her size.

I've searched my property many times and no more widows! I see plenty of look-a-likes. Not sure what they are, but somewhat smaller and usually black or brownish black. Seem to emulate some of the habits of the widow.

I wonder if I can ever expect here to produce an egg sac? If there truly aren't any more widows on the property, maybe she never mated. Soon, it's going to get cold here in the residence.

 

[darkness975]

Been almost two weeks since my last post and she appears to be doing fine. She molted again after feasting on a larger cricket. This time, her abdomen didn't shrink nearly as much as the first time she molted. I waited a week and then fed her a cricket about her size.

I've searched my property many times and no more widows! I see plenty of look-a-likes. Not sure what they are, but somewhat smaller and usually black or brownish black. Seem to emulate some of the habits of the widow.

I wonder if I can ever expect here to produce an egg sac? If there truly aren't any more widows on the property, maybe she never mated. Soon, it's going to get cold here in the residence.

Probably false widows. Steadoda.

 

[JonIverson]

@darkness975 or others, any reason why she wants to keep hiding and staying out of her web lately? I get a bit alarmed when checking on her in the morning, for example, and don't see her, until I find that she's at the top far corner of the wooden aquarium cover or, if in the big jar, she'll hide along one of the edges of the 1" styrofoam square that supports the V branch for her web.

 

[darkness975]

@darkness975 or others, any reason why she wants to keep hiding and staying out of her web lately? I get a bit alarmed when checking on her in the morning, for example, and don't see her, until I find that she's at the top far corner of the wooden aquarium cover or, if in the big jar, she'll hide along one of the edges of the 1" styrofoam square that supports the V branch for her web.

In the wild they construct their webs with a pathway that leads to a hiding retreat. They are predominantly nocturnal and hide in this retreat during the day.
That's why I always provide something for them to hide in such as fake plant leaves.

They also tend to like to go up which is annoying.

If you get a high intensity LED flashlight you can see the trip lines that lead from where the spider is "hiding" to the web.

 

[JonIverson]

So, as of today, she continues to be doing well. I transferred her over to what I consider a ideal containment now where she can't attach webs to the sides, only the bottom and branches. An important discovery I made today is that she appears to eat dead prey. I had frozen some crickets from the yard earlier in the week and removed and thawed one today. By wiggling with a pair of tweezers, she came over to it and began grappling it as if it were live prey. She's now currently feeding on the thawed cricket. Hopefully, that means I can build up some in storage to get her through the winter.

I had debated whether or not to try keeping her this winter as temps will drop into the upper 40's as I said prior, but I believe I can fashion a temperature controlled and heated containment. It should be able to keep the temp in the 70's.

Still no sign of an egg sac and I have done repeated property searches and find no more widows. Plenty of false widows, a few broad faced and yellow sac spiders, but nothing like her. I still think she never mated. Perhaps someday I'll find out. I'll have to watch for an egg sac once it gets too cold as I won't have the capability of keeping all of those litter critters warmed as they grow.

Just as a side note that some of these transfers of her into other containers has not been easy. One time, she got completely away and hid under something in the house. Luckily, I was able to find her right away. Another time, she was starting to escape and heading directly for my hand! Some careful, smartly executed movements and she was back to where she belongs. I wouldn't want her on my flesh. When I move her, I've often used a long stick and before convincing her to take to it, she has tried biting it a few times.

 

[darkness975]

So, as of today, she continues to be doing well. I transferred her over to what I consider a ideal containment now where she can't attach webs to the sides, only the bottom and branches. An important discovery I made today is that she appears to eat dead prey. I had frozen some crickets from the yard earlier in the week and removed and thawed one today. By wiggling with a pair of tweezers, she came over to it and began grappling it as if it were live prey. She's now currently feeding on the thawed cricket. Hopefully, that means I can build up some in storage to get her through the winter.

I had debated whether or not to try keeping her this winter as temps will drop into the upper 40's as I said prior, but I believe I can fashion a temperature controlled and heated containment. It should be able to keep the temp in the 70's.

Still no sign of an egg sac and I have done repeated property searches and find no more widows. Plenty of false widows, a few broad faced and yellow sac spiders, but nothing like her. I still think she never mated. Perhaps someday I'll find out. I'll have to watch for an egg sac once it gets too cold as I won't have the capability of keeping all of those litter critters warmed as they grow.

Just as a side note that some of these transfers of her into other containers has not been easy. One time, she got completely away and hid under something in the house. Luckily, I was able to find her right away. Another time, she was starting to escape and heading directly for my hand! Some careful, smartly executed movements and she was back to where she belongs. I wouldn't want her on my flesh. When I move her, I've often used a long stick and before convincing her to take to it, she has tried biting it a few times.

Even on your skin she wouldn't bite unless you pinned her.

They won't lay egg sacks if the temperature is too low. They wait until it warms up. They can store sperm.

Watch this. A real bite test. The bite in this video is far longer than the usual bite most of us get so the symptoms were more severe but still not life threatening. Only under certain circumstances should you worry.