southern black widow inquiries

[JonIverson]

Thanks for the info. I'll take a look at the video, looks interesting.

Well, I made the heated enclosure today and I am testing it in the refrigerator. That's a good starting point since it will be about 10 F less than the lowest the enclosure will be exposed to. The temperature is staying between 68-72 F when the environment is 39 F. Good enough.

 

[darkness975]

Thanks for the info. I'll take a look at the video, looks interesting.

Well, I made the heated enclosure today and I am testing it in the refrigerator. That's a good starting point since it will be about 10 F less than the lowest the enclosure will be exposed to. The temperature is staying between 68-72 F when the environment is 39 F. Good enough.

68 - 72 F is perfectly fine for the winter.

 

[JonIverson]

Much to my surprise, I found yet another SBW on my property this evening. Perhaps all the heavy rain lately had something to do with it. This one appears to be only about 1/3 or so the size of the female obtained this summer. At first I thought it might be a male, but the markings are identical to the female, hourglass on bottom with one or two spots on the opposite side. My guess is that she may have molted recently like my current one did a while back leaving her much smaller for a few days. I tried feeding this new one, but ran away from food so will leave her be. If she just molted, I will have to give her time. Looks like I'll have to build another small heater.

 

[darkness975]

Much to my surprise, I found yet another SBW on my property this evening. Perhaps all the heavy rain lately had something to do with it. This one appears to be only about 1/3 or so the size of the female obtained this summer. At first I thought it might be a male, but the markings are identical to the female, hourglass on bottom with one or two spots on the opposite side. My guess is that she may have molted recently like my current one did a while back leaving her much smaller for a few days. I tried feeding this new one, but ran away from food so will leave her be. If she just molted, I will have to give her time. Looks like I'll have to build another small heater.

Spritz water for it to drink and give it a couple of days to harden up before attempting to feed

 

[JonIverson]

She's eating today. Just had to give her smaller prey. I found another widow on my property this evening. Not sure if male or female and attaching an image. I think this is an immature female since there is the hourglass on the bottom.

 

[darkness975]

She's eating today. Just had to give her smaller prey. I found another widow on my property this evening. Not sure if male or female and attaching an image. I think this is an immature female since there is the hourglass on the bottom.

Looks male. Can you get a few more pictures of the front?

 

[JonIverson]

It does have the hour glass on the bottom. I read that males didn't have it? Anyway, it might be a few days, but I believe I can get some more good pictures when I transfer it over to a container I have set up for photography while I do some final work on it's heated dwelling. I had to scramble materials and make two more heated enclosures this last week since the discovery of the two new guests. If it is male, I'll of course have some additional questions since I have two females in separate enclosures.

 

[darkness975]

It does have the hour glass on the bottom. I read that males didn't have it? Anyway, it might be a few days, but I believe I can get some more good pictures when I transfer it over to a container I have set up for photography while I do some final work on it's heated dwelling. I had to scramble materials and make two more heated enclosures this last week since the discovery of the two new guests. If it is male, I'll of course have some additional questions since I have two females in separate enclosures.

Males do have the hour glass but it's not as prominent.

 

[JonIverson]

Ok, here's some hopefully better photos of the widow in question. What's the thought on the sex? Thanks in advance.

 

[darkness975]

Ok, here's some hopefully better photos of the widow in question. What's the thought on the sex? Thanks in advance.

It's a mature male. You can see the "boxing gloves" where the sperm is stored. It's the same thing with many male tarantulas.

 

[JonIverson]

Wow, a male. I sort of thought that after the better photos and the size of what you are speaking of.... at the front I assume. Anyway, now one male and two females all in separate heated enclosures. How would I go about introducing him to the females? Is it possible that he would only have one chance with one female (before he was eaten), or is it possible that he could inseminate both? And how soon might copulation take place once introduced and would there be any way I could tell without watching the entire time? Finally, with the current temperatures, being 68-72 in the enclosures, would the female lay eggs, or would she wait until temps are warmer in the spring/ summer? It would be easy to decrease enclosure temps by adjusting the thermostat. I know, lots of questions. I'm not even sure I'm going to do this as I would have to build a final, heated enclosure with compartments depending on how many I'd want to try raising. That plus heat for the separate wingless fruit flies, which would be an independent task raising those. If the females waited until warmer weather when outdoor bugs are plentiful, it would be better to try a raising of the young. I understand that they can lay eggs more than once. Perhaps I could remove sacs until warmer weather. I've also thought about waiting on the possible introduction/ copulation until warmer outdoor weather, but I read that the males only live 6 months(?) or so.

Sorry for all of the above questions, new territory for me, and especially if I decided on mating and raising young. Thanks, once again, in advance, for your response.

 

[darkness975]

Wow, a male. I sort of thought that after the better photos and the size of what you are speaking of.... at the front I assume. Anyway, now one male and two females all in separate heated enclosures. How would I go about introducing him to the females? Is it possible that he would only have one chance with one female (before he was eaten), or is it possible that he could inseminate both? And how soon might copulation take place once introduced and would there be any way I could tell without watching the entire time? Finally, with the current temperatures, being 68-72 in the enclosures, would the female lay eggs, or would she wait until temps are warmer in the spring/ summer? It would be easy to decrease enclosure temps by adjusting the thermostat. I know, lots of questions. I'm not even sure I'm going to do this as I would have to build a final, heated enclosure with compartments depending on how many I'd want to try raising. That plus heat for the separate wingless fruit flies, which would be an independent task raising those. If the females waited until warmer weather when outdoor bugs are plentiful, it would be better to try a raising of the young. I understand that they can lay eggs more than once. Perhaps I could remove sacs until warmer weather. I've also thought about waiting on the possible introduction/ copulation until warmer outdoor weather, but I read that the males only live 6 months(?) or so.

Sorry for all of the above questions, new territory for me, and especially if I decided on mating and raising young. Thanks, once again, in advance, for your response.

She would likely hold off on laying any sacs until the ambient temperature warms up. I have had females wait through the winter months and then start laying sacs again in the late spring.

The act itself is fairly quick so you're not likely to see it unless they get right to it as soon as you drop him in there.

Consumption of the male is more likely in captivity than in the wild simply because he can't escape.

Check this out.

 

[JonIverson]

Very interesting video, now I know what to watch for. I actually have some good video I took myself of the first female I obtained in August. Perhaps I'll share it with the group sometime.

I'm going to grab one more photo op of the male tomorrow before I feed him and then place him in one of the female enclosures, just in case I don't get him out in time. I also want to be sure the females are fed first too. There are two females and I wonder which one to choose. The first was the original from August. Large, well fed. The other is the one I obtained within the last days. Significantly smaller than the August female, but getting larger with each meal.

As for the young, I might be able to wing it this winter. I have an idea to take an old heating pad, add a thermostat and temperature probe sensor and place it inside the base of a 5 gal aquarium. Then I could place deli cups with the cloth lids inside. If I'm lucky, maybe even a deli cup with fruit fly culture. The whole thing could be kept around 70 F I believe. I'll have a final limit on the number of young, probably around 5 or 6.

 

[darkness975]

70F should be fine.

 

[JonIverson]

@darkness975 thanks. Can you give me the approximate dimensions of your deli cups? I may try and fashion some tests in the coming days to see how well/ poorly six or so will do with the heater set up.

 

[darkness975]

@darkness975 thanks. Can you give me the approximate dimensions of your deli cups? I may try and fashion some tests in the coming days to see how well/ poorly six or so will do with the heater set up.

They're 32 oz deli cups. You can get them from most vendors.

Plastic Deli Insect Cup with FABRIC Vented Lid (32 oz)

www.joshsfrogs.com

The approximate dimensions are:

 

[JonIverson]

@darknes975 thanks so much. Will help a lot in determining how many will fit into the space I'll have.

Well, I tried to feed all three of them today. The females readily accepted what I gave them, but the male was no taker. Maybe an earwig was too big, although the smaller female has no problem accepting one. Any suggestion as to what to feed the male welcome. Also, when I took a look at the photos after the photo session today, I think maybe the abdomen is a bit shriveled. Not totally certain because it may have been the way the light was hitting it too.

 

[darkness975]

@darknes975 thanks so much. Will help a lot in determining how many will fit into the space I'll have.

Well, I tried to feed all three of them today. The females readily accepted what I gave them, but the male was no taker. Maybe an earwig was too big, although the smaller female has no problem accepting one. Any suggestion as to what to feed the male welcome. Also, when I took a look at the photos after the photo session today, I think maybe the abdomen is a bit shriveled. Not totally certain because it may have been the way the light was hitting it too.

Mature males don't really eat. They might steal some of the female's catch but they only have one thing on their mind.

I wouldn't be surprised if his abdomen is starting to shrivel. They are on borrowed time once they mature and won't last too long.

 

[JonIverson]

@darkness975, ok I went ahead and added him to the largest female's enclosure. He's quite a feisty little guy and I can't tell you how many times he has ended up getting away. More than once he has been on my hand and arm. So far, he's just stationary in one part of her web. Amazing he's calmed down so much. It takes him probably half an hour to calm down if in his own enclosure. Perhaps he already senses her. I have two questions here: 1) How long should I keep him in there? and (2) will the female mate again if she's already mated? I don't know for (2) since I found her under the lawnmower cover in August. One final question is this: Assuming I can remove him in time, can I introduce him to the remaining female even though she's only about half the size of the other? The latest meal added more diameter to her abdomen, but still not the main female size. Lots of questions, I know, but hard to find this information elsewhere and you have raised many, so if anyone knows, you would.... and, again, thank you in advance! I'll be keeping an eye on the couple enclosure off and on all day to see what happens. So far, nothing, both staying stationary at web places apart from one another.

 

[JonIverson]

Ok, looks like something went on. After 90 minutes in her enclosure, he started touching her with his long legs, then moved in. For the next hour or two, he was all over her. She didn't move. Now, he has moved away. Leave him, or move him to the other female?