Smuggler Caught Shipping tarantulas in LA

[Lorum]

I don't know where your from, but in the UK sending spiders in the mail is against the rules of the Post Office and you can be prosecuted for doing so.

Have I recieved spiders in the post? Yes I have.
Have I sent spiders in the post? Yes I have.
Will I do either of these things again? Yes I will.

I would say that 95% of tarantula keepers have done at least one of the above. Don't be hypocritical.

+1

It is the same here in México.

The fact is, Sven was caught for breaking inefficient laws. Selling CBB animals is good for natural populations (as long as they are not released to the wild). The whole situation was more a "we are the government, we have more power than you" than a "we are the government, we protect people and wildlife and you are doing wrong".

So, laws have to change (and yes, I know that if you break the rules, you should pay the price, but that doesn't change the fact that some laws are highly inefficient).

 

[Comatose]

This is asinine. I sure am glad they spend 9 months running a 'sting' on someone sending a common tarantula genus through the mail without dotting all his I's rather than, you know, catching actual violent criminals. Legislation intended to protect endangered wild species should be used to do just that; not harass private breeders exchanging established, captive bred individuals.

 

[AbraCadaver]

He stuffed up. He did someting he shouldn't have. He should indeed be punished. No, I'm not saying 20 years in prison, and a fine of that figure, but when you break the law, however stupid it may be, you must be prepared to pay for it as well.

However, it's an equally big stuff up to use 9 bleedin' months on catching a dealer of spiders. I wonder, what did they gain from all this? In the end they will have lost more money than they get back, they will have created alot of fury, both from hobbyists seeing the entire ridicule of the story, knowing this is not the first, nor the last person to do this, or the "man in the street" seeing, and caring, mainly for the wasted funds and time.

The entire situation is completly blown out of proportion, and there is no doubt they are doing this to set an example. But I believe it would be wrong to say that Sven did not think anything of the sort could happen. He, despite making a blunder, is not a foolish man, and he knew. Saying anything else would be an insult to his intelligence.

I am preserving judgement on the whole thing untill I get more information. For now, we have a highly biased version of the story, with highly biased replies to the story. As the case progresses, more information will come out, one way or another. For now, it's pretty much guess work and raging.

 

[metallica]

i do hope that the people who received his spiders in the US will face the same charges as the one who sent them.......

 

[danb]

I think everyone is assuming that these spiders were all captive bred...although Sven does primarily sell CB he has more than a few WC T's on his pricelist (including Brachys). Thoughts?

 

[JamieC]

He stuffed up. He did someting he shouldn't have. He should indeed be punished. No, I'm not saying 20 years in prison, and a fine of that figure, but when you break the law, however stupid it may be, you must be prepared to pay for it as well.

To an extent I agree with you Abra.

I just think Sven deserves the full support from us hobbyists. This hobby simply wouldn't survive if we didn't break the rules every now and then. As I said in an earlier post, you can be prosecuted for sending spiders in the mail in the UK. But how else would our hobby survive if we didn't?

It's nice to see that most people are supporting Sven, those who don't should perhaps reconsider. Or at least wait until we know more before making judgement.

Out of curiosity, does anyone know how long Sven has actively been in this hobby?

Jamie

 

[Arthropod]

The only spiders listed by CITIES are Brachypelma aureoceps and Brachypelma vagans
Most people own those why is this such a big deal:?

 

[flamesbane]

I agree with whoever said previously that the 20 year prison term and $250,000 fine are the maximum allowable under the law. I doubt he will get anything anywhere close to that.

Also, this wasn't entrapment (I've seen that thrown around a couple times in this thread). Entrapment: b. To lure into performing a previously or otherwise uncontemplated illegal act

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Entrapment

 

[AbraCadaver]

To an extent I agree with you Abra.

I just think Sven deserves the full support from us hobbyists. This hobby simply wouldn't survive if we didn't break the rules every now and then. As I said in an earlier post, you can be prosecuted for sending spiders in the mail in the UK. But how else would our hobby survive if we didn't?

It's nice to see that most people are supporting Sven, those who don't should perhaps reconsider. Or at least wait until we know more before making judgement.

Out of curiosity, does anyone know how long Sven has actively been in this hobby?

Jamie

Well, first off, I did say I was going to wait to make up my mind on this matter.

Second, I don't think sharing interests makes him entitled to endless support. He did stuff up, simple as that. I will neither support him nor go against him, because I simply don't know enough about the matter.

Yes, we all do stuff that's against the rules, but this wasn't three T's being sent within a country. It was a bit bigger than that, thus, the price is naturally bigger to pay. It is of course sad that something like this happened, but I will not support someone simply because they "went out on a limb" for our hobby. As I said, as the case progresses I will get more ground to either support him, or choose not to.

 

[cacoseraph]

Well, I don't feel sorry for him, smuggling is smuggling. Follow the law! I only feel sorry for the tarantulas, I hope they were cared for properly.

you do realize odds are you have broken many laws and rules if you have shipped or received ANY bugs through the mail, right?

 

[JamieC]

Well, first off, I did say I was going to wait to make up my mind on this matter.

Yes Abra you did. Sorry if you thought that was intended towards you, it wasen't. I should have worded that a bit better

 

[Falk]

Well, I don't feel sorry for him, smuggling is smuggling. Follow the law! I only feel sorry for the tarantulas, I hope they were cared for properly.

Some of the species you keep could once have been smuggled, think about that.

 

[Comatose]

Some of the species you keep could once have been smuggled, think about that.

+1

Poecilotheria, Acanthoscurria, many Brachy species... and the threats these species face has more to do with domestic issues that collection and export. No doubt that certain over harvested species need protection, but when India's rainforests are gone in 20 years, I'll be happy that people smuggled enough metallica, miranda and subfusca out to establish the captive breeding population we have today.

 

[John Kanker]

Some of the species you keep could once have been smuggled, think about that.

does this make it right though? Is this what the hobby is all about, showing support for the smuggling of spiders.
With such open support in this hobby towards those people who do the smuggling it is no small wonder to me that the, powers that be stand up and start to take more notice and action againts such things.
I love the way many of us seem to think it is ok to take what we want from another country under the excuses of "oh I only took one or two" or "they are endangerd there anyway" or "it is science so it can be described etc", because what it really is, is theft, like it or not you are stealing from another country, and it is the same when you export/import into another country without the proper permission ie smuggling and I am not suprised at all that governments want some control over this.

 

[Falk]

+1

Poecilotheria, Acanthoscurria, many Brachy species... and the threats these species face has more to do with domestic issues that collection and export. No doubt that certain over harvested species need protection, but when India's rainforests are gone in 20 years, I'll be happy that people smuggled enough metallica, miranda and subfusca out to establish the captive breeding population we have today.

Yes but imo opinion there is a small difference. There is one thing to completely harverst a forrest for an example the Pamphobeteus sp. "chicken spider" just to make money than to take a few males and females to breed in captivity and sell to hobbyists

 

[Falk]

does this make it right though? Is this what the hobby is all about, showing support for the smuggling of spiders.
With such open support in this hobby towards those people who do the smuggling it is no small wonder to me that the, powers that be stand up and start to take more notice and action againts such things.
I love the way many of us seem to think it is ok to take what we want from another country under the excuses of "oh I only took one or two" or "they are endangerd there anyway" or "it is science so it can be described etc", because what it really is, is theft, like it or not you are stealing from another country, and it is the same when you export/import into another country without the proper permission ie smuggling and I am not suprised at all that governments want some control over this.

Ok so you should never buy a spider then, because that genus could only be in the hobby thanks to smuggling. I dont say its ok to harvest a forrest for species only to make money but to take a few to breed in captivity is ok for me.

 

[KenTheBugGuy]

does this make it right though? Is this what the hobby is all about, showing support for the smuggling of spiders.
With such open support in this hobby towards those people who do the smuggling it is no small wonder to me that the, powers that be stand up and start to take more notice and action againts such things.
I love the way many of us seem to think it is ok to take what we want from another country under the excuses of "oh I only took one or two" or "they are endangerd there anyway" or "it is science so it can be described etc", because what it really is, is theft, like it or not you are stealing from another country, and it is the same when you export/import into another country without the proper permission ie smuggling and I am not suprised at all that governments want some control over this.

Its probably why some of the laws have some of the punishments they do cause no one is going to care if they made 3000 dollars but were only fined 10 dollars for doing it cause they were caught 1 time. I know those amounts are not realistic just the idea. Having a heavy punishment but only a person prosecuted now and then cause it cost so much to do it....might be the only way to control it. Imagine if the punishment were $100 fine and that is it. Well there were be a TON of this illegal stuff going on and we might have real problems then.

 

[Poxicator]

The only spiders listed by CITIES are Brachypelma aureoceps and Brachypelma vagans
Most people own those why is this such a big deal:?

Not sure where this info comes from but the link earlier in the thread to the DAO says "The entire Brachypelma genus is protected by the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species (CITES)"

 

[KenTheBugGuy]

Falk

The problem with your idea is this. Who is to say that the person collecting a few is doing what you are saying? If you open it up to people to take a few other people will take many or figure out a way too. Also how do you make a law like that? You going to set up a hunters tagging service that says you collected your 2 limit for the year? Just does not work its either illegal or legal really.

 

[John Kanker]

Ok so you should never buy a spider then, because that genus could only be in the hobby thanks to smuggling. I dont say its ok to harvest a forrest for species only to make money but to take a few to breed in captivity is ok for me.

you think every spider in the hobby is only there due to smuggling?