Smuggler Caught Shipping tarantulas in LA

[Anastasia]

Ok so you should never buy a spider then, because that genus could only be in the hobby thanks to smuggling. I dont say its ok to harvest a forrest for species only to make money but to take a few to breed in captivity is ok for me.

I think what he saying most of them already been captive bred and born/hatched
Sure at some point all of them came from wild collected dicent

 

[JamieC]

does this make it right though? Is this what the hobby is all about, showing support for the smuggling of spiders.
With such open support in this hobby towards those people who do the smuggling it is no small wonder to me that the, powers that be stand up and start to take more notice and action againts such things.
I love the way many of us seem to think it is ok to take what we want from another country under the excuses of "oh I only took one or two" or "they are endangerd there anyway" or "it is science so it can be described etc", because what it really is, is theft, like it or not you are stealing from another country, and it is the same when you export/import into another country without the proper permission ie smuggling and I am not suprised at all that governments want some control over this.

John

No one is saying that. What Sven did was wrong. We all accept that. He broke the law, got caught and now has to answer for his actions. No one is saying that what he did was OK, or that he should be let off.

The point I think Falk is trying to make is that you may very well have benefitted from previous "illegal" deals without even knowing it. You may have specimens in your collection that came from similar deals. Something to consider.

 

[John Kanker]

Yes but imo opinion there is a small difference. There is once thing to completely harverst a forrest for an example the Pamphobeteus sp. "chicken spider" just to make money than to take a few males and females to breed in captivity and sell to hobbyists

theft is theft. If your serious about collecting for the good then get the paper work.

 

[Anastasia]

theft is theft. If your serious about collecting for the good then get the paper work.

John,
there is a bit of difference between thief and a smuggler
even so cant label anyone, news are like broken phone
innocent until proven guilty in a court of law

 

[John Kanker]

John

No one is saying that. What Sven did was wrong. We all accept that. He broke the law, got caught and now has to answer for his actions. No one is saying that what he did was OK, or that he should be let off.

The point I think Falk is trying to make is that you may very well have benefitted from previous "illegal" deals without even knowing it. You may have specimens in your collection that came from similar deals. Something to consider.

So what would you say is a fitting punishment for someone who has broke this law got caught and has to answer for his actions, bearing in mind you may want to put people off breaking this law in the future.
I know what he is saying and I am also fully awear of the many species that I have myself that came in only due to them being smuggled. I on the other hand am not going to try and kidd myself into thinking that just because I have them it makes it ok to smuggle them because it doesn't and I am fully awear that because they were smuggled I really shouldn't have them either.

Im not againts people smuggleing any spiders either but I'm not going to kidd myself into saying that is ok for any reason because there is none.

 

[Comatose]

Yes but imo opinion there is a small difference. There is once thing to completely harverst a forrest for an example the Pamphobeteus sp. "chicken spider" just to make money than to take a few males and females to breed in captivity and sell to hobbyists

I wasn't aware that they had been harvested...

At any rate, this doesn't involved species being taken from the wild, it's about someone failing to fill out convoluted paperwork.

 

[John Kanker]

John,
there is a bit of difference between thief and a smuggler
even so cant label anyone, news are like broken phone
innocent until proven guilty in a court of law

No. if you collect without a permit you are stealing which last time I checked is theft. This is what I was saying. I you read the bit I quoted you may understand why I wrote what I did.

 

[John Kanker]

I wasn't aware that they had been harvested...

At any rate, this doesn't involved species being taken from the wild, it's about someone failing to fill out convoluted paperwork.

quite, the topic has strayed a little lol

 

[JamieC]

So what would you say is a fitting punishment for someone who has broke this law got caught and has to answer for his actions, bearing in mind you may want to put people off breaking this law in the future.
I know what he is saying and I am also fully awear of the many species that I have myself that came in only due to them being smuggled. I on the other hand am not going to try and kidd myself into thinking that just because I have them it makes it ok to smuggle them because it doesn't and I am fully awear that because they were smuggled I really shouldn't have them either.

Im not againts people smuggleing any spiders either but I'm not going to kidd myself into saying that is ok for any reason because there is none.

John,

I have no idea what a fitting punishment would be! We don't even know the full story yet! It certainly is NOT 20 years and $250K fine!

Like I keep saying, I'm not saying what he has done is OK. You don't seem to be taking that in. Sven is in big trouble. I hope his fine is affordable and his sentence (if any) is leniant for the sake of Sven, his family and for our hobby.

Anastasia is right. Theft and smuggling are not the same thing.

 

[KenTheBugGuy]

Like I keep saying, I'm not saying what he has done is OK. You don't seem to be taking that in. Sven is in big trouble. I hope his fine is affordable and his sentence (if any) is lenient for the sake of Sven, his family and for our hobby.

I definitely second that!

 

[John Kanker]

John,

I have no idea what a fitting punishment would be! We don't even know the full story yet! It certainly is NOT 20 years and $250K fine!

Like I keep saying, I'm not saying what he has done is OK. You don't seem to be taking that in. Sven is in big trouble. I hope his fine is affordable and his sentence (if any) is leniant for the sake of Sven, his family and for our hobby.

Anastasia is right. Theft and smuggling are not the same thing.

where have I said theft and smuggling are the same thing?

where have I said that you think it is ok?

what do you mean sake of our hobby? do you think it will end if the worse outcome for swen happened?

just so you know I hope for the best for swen also btw.

 

[KenTheBugGuy]

yah

where have I said theft and smuggling are the same thing?

where have I said that you think it is ok?

what do you mean sake of our hobby? do you think it will end if the worse outcome for swen happened?

just so you know I hope for the best for swen also btw.

I also don't see how a lesser sentence would help our hobby but I do hope for a lesser sentence for his sake as I don't think the full punishment is exactly fair for him or his family.

 

[Falk]

you think every spider in the hobby is only there due to smuggling?

Nope but many of them where in the beginning.

 

[John Kanker]

I also don't see how a lesser sentence would help our hobby but I do hope for a lesser sentence for his sake as I don't think the full punishment is exactly fair for him or his family.

totally agree I really do hope for his sake they do not make an example out of him if they fing him guilty. Spiders are no great excuse for getting a lose ring piece.

 

[John Kanker]

Nope but many of them where in the beginning.

so this makes smuggleing all ok then?

 

[KenTheBugGuy]

Point

I would like to make one point. No one is smuggling spiders cause they think "our hobby needs that spider" if that were true they would just give them away. The only reason people smuggle spiders is for personal gain. I would say this is true 99% of the time. There is a small percentage that I am sure is for research or other reason but even those many times are for personal gain cause why risk yourself if not.

 

[Anastasia]

where have I said theft and smuggling are the same thing?

theft is theft. If your serious about collecting for the good then get the paper work.

you didnt say, but collecting wild animals and deliver them with out proper paperwork its smuggling
its just seems all got trowin in one pot, lol

 

[JamieC]

where have I said theft and smuggling are the same thing?

where have I said that you think it is ok?

what do you mean sake of our hobby? do you think it will end if the worse outcome for swen happened?

just so you know I hope for the best for swen also btw.

You are comparing theft to smuggling. They are 2 different things.

You repeatedly say: "That does not make it OK" No one ever said it was.

Sven's has a lot of input in this hobby. He is one of 2 people I buy from.

You now say you hope for the best for Sven?! In an earlier post you said you found the whole thing amusing! Get your story straight.

Once again John, I feel like this thread is getting cluttered with our to and fro argument, so for the sake of others I'm stopping now. I don't want this thread to get out of hand and locked.

 

[Falk]

so this makes smuggleing all ok then?

Look what i wrote earlier

 

[John Kanker]

you didnt say, but collecting wild animals and deliver them with out proper paperwork its smuggling
its just seems all got trow in in one pot, lol

If you are collecting without a permit you are stealing which is theft, and is what I was commenting on. the bringing of the spiders into another country without a permit is the smuggling part which in that post I was not commenting on.