Ripped off

[Haksilence]

@Haksilence if you end up not even wanting her I'll take her in if you sell her. I think she's a cutie.

no im still going to keep her, she was my first t and is a darling. i just would have obviously liked a smithi

 

[magicmed]

no im still going to keep her, she was my first t and is a darling. i just would have obviously liked a smithi

Totally understandable, expecting one species and getting another just sucks, especially when a lot of the hobby is faith, with slings looking very similar

 

[cold blood]

no im still going to keep her, she was my first t and is a darling. i just would have obviously liked a smithi

They're colors aren't much different from vagans anyway.

 

[Trenor]

View attachment 219448
They're colors aren't much different from vagans anyway.

I see what you mean.

 

[magicmed]

I see what you mean.

Seems legit

 

[Thistles]

Its so frustrating seeing hybrids appear. I wish people with the intent to breed would know the difference between Brachypelma vagans/kahlenbergi/albiceps/sabulosum/epicureanum/verdezi.

All these ignorant breeders need to do now is throw in some similar Aphonos and you've got yourself an irreversible problem

I think it's pretty much irreversible here already without starting a whole new WC line that as clearly distinguished from the hobby form.

 

[KezyGLA]

I think it's pretty much irreversible here already without starting a whole new WC line that as clearly distinguished from the hobby form.

Well heres hoping the brown doesnt carry through to adults any time soon. Or you may be looking at some Brachypelma hentzi

 

[Exoskeleton Invertebrates]

Even legit dealers can make mistakes of having the wrong species. Sometimes I feel a dealer gets to comfortable of purchasing an egg sac from a breeder without proof of a photo of mom and dad of the spiderlings. When this occurs the dealer or seller is taking a big risk.

As for Brachypelma vagans with a light carapace or dark carapace when they're young does anyone really know what this species really look like or have a photo of a sling showing their growth progress that was produced by two wild caught parents vs two captive born hobby Brachypelma vagans? How do we know if some of the babies will look different than the other siblings? Since this vagans have been in the hobby for a very long time the pureness of this species might not exist anymore. We know that vagans, albopilosum and verdezi were mixed............something for us to think about a bit more.

 

[Haksilence]

View attachment 219448
They're colors aren't much different from vagans anyway.

Oh yeah for sure, it's a totally honest mistake, I don't blame BWR at all. I mix smithi and vagans up all the time too

 

[Haksilence]

Even legit dealers can make mistakes of having the wrong species. Sometimes I feel a dealer gets to comfortable of purchasing an egg sac from a breeder without proof of a photo of mom and dad of the spiderlings. When this occurs the dealer or seller is taking a big risk.

As for Brachypelma vagans with a light carapace or dark carapace when they're young does anyone really know what this species really look like or have a photo of a sling showing their growth progress that was produced by two wild caught parents vs two captive born hobby Brachypelma vagans? How do we know if some of the babies will look different than the other siblings? Since this vagans have been in the hobby for a very long time the pureness of this species might not exist anymore. We know that vagans, albopilosum and verdezi were mixed............something for us to think about a bit more.

Yeah, and I'm albiceps had to have slithered in there somewhere as well

 

[KezyGLA]

Most sling are of same colouration when slings. As for appearance they are similar too. However, this is 2 of the most common sp. in the hobby. Slings can and should be looked at thoroughly before selling on. If your reputation rides on it then you should always be more observant. I dont know about BWR reputation but it seems clear after seeing member posts here that they should be avoided.

 

[Mattkc]

RE: Hybridization of B. vagans?
I agree that hybrids are a problem with the the hobby and probably with the MRR species, however be aware that there are actually several color variations that currently exist in the wild - which I've witnessed myself in Mexico.
Some may not be aware that the MRR is a widely distributed species in central America where color polymorphism has been found in the different populations of Brachypelma vagans. Depending on where the original wild caught MRR were imported, when they were legal to import, its genes would cause some of the different color variations we now see in the hobby. See the following article:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3835041/
Scroll down to the photos of MRR's and the color variations just in the Yucatan area!
I also understand that other similar Brachypelma species from different central American countries (outside Mexico) may actually be minor color variants of the vagans due to there wide distribution....
So the real question is are we simply breeding different color morphs of the vagans that originated from different locations, or are we hybridizing them?

 

[Trenor]

RE: Hybridization of B. vagans?
I agree that hybrids are a problem with the the hobby and probably with the MRR species, however be aware that there are actually several color variations that currently exist in the wild - which I've witnessed myself in Mexico.
Some may not be aware that the MRR is a widely distributed species in central America where color polymorphism has been found in the different populations of Brachypelma vagans. Depending on where the original wild caught MRR were imported, when they were legal to import, its genes would cause some of the different color variations we now see in the hobby. See the following article:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3835041/
Scroll down to the photos of MRR's and the color variations just in the Yucatan area!
I also understand that other similar Brachypelma species from different central American countries (outside Mexico) may actually may be minor color variants of the vagans due to there wide distribution....
So the real question is are we simply breeding different color morphs of the vagans that originated from different locations, or are we hybridizing them?

Thanks for the information. It was a good read.

 

[Mattkc]

It's unfortunate that many in the hobby don't realize this, which has subsequently given the MRR's a bad rap and is probably somewhat responsible for their lower prices in the hobby...

 

[cold blood]

@Mattkc MRR????

 

[cold blood]

I think it's pretty much irreversible.

Which is precisely why hybridization is so frowned upon.

I don't blame BWR at all.

You should, a mistake is a mistake, but this company specializes in mistakes, its like they don't even try to get orders right. A good company would hear your complaint and make it right, not ignore your correspondence and their mistake.

 

[Exoskeleton Invertebrates]

RE: Hybridization of B. vagans?
I agree that hybrids are a problem with the the hobby and probably with the MRR species, however be aware that there are actually several color variations that currently exist in the wild - which I've witnessed myself in Mexico.
Some may not be aware that the MRR is a widely distributed species in central America where color polymorphism has been found in the different populations of Brachypelma vagans. Depending on where the original wild caught MRR were imported, when they were legal to import, its genes would cause some of the different color variations we now see in the hobby. See the following article:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3835041/
Scroll down to the photos of MRR's and the color variations just in the Yucatan area!
I also understand that other similar Brachypelma species from different central American countries (outside Mexico) may actually be minor color variants of the vagans due to there wide distribution....
So the real question is are we simply breeding different color morphs of the vagans that originated from different locations, or are we hybridizing them?

Hybrid definitely! That's been proven, breeding male and female from different localities most and highly likely. And it why I'm against breeding a natural selected species from deifferent areas.

 

[Thistles]

@Mattkc MRR????

Mexican red rump I think

 

[cold blood]

Mexican red rump I think

Ahhh, cause vagans is too difficult

 

[Haksilence]

Which is precisely why hybridization is so frowned upon.



You should, a mistake is a mistake, but this company specializes in mistakes, its like they don't even try to get orders right. A good company would hear your complaint and make it right, not ignore your correspondence and their mistake.

It was sarcasm, which is why I out the troll smilie thing