Really big problem, need help!

[von_z]

The roaches eat chicken feed, and fruit from time to time but that is it. That could be the issue......... maybe Ill try dog food. But would that be any safer?

I feed mine a combination of organic dog food with no artificial additives and commercial cricket food, like Flukers makes. That way they can't be exposed to any harmful chemicals.

 

[pato_chacoana]

Hi all, first I'm sad to hear this is happening, it's really frustrating to see tarantulas die and not knowing what is going on!
Well, I've read many posts of the thread. This could be anything really, but here's what I think. The roaches and substrate I don't think are causing this. If feeders were the problem, you'll have a much more larger number of your tarantulas dead. Besides, you have been raising roaches and feeding your tarantulas like this for a long time now and this just happened now and with some spiderlings in particular from your many tarantulas. I think there's a opportunistic bacteria that is catching the weakers individuals. This could be a genetic weakness.
But it's true that this is a lot of speculation. Remember that if you are using the same substrate and feeders for all your tarantulas, then it's affecting ONLY some spiderlings and not all of the tarantulas that has this same conditions.

By the way, I'm sorry for my poor english, I'm very sleepy, can't think much in other language...

Best luck, I hope this stops now!

Pato.

 

[saminthemiddle]

Yeah, you can most certainly ask those questions. If you're nervous tell them that your fish have been falling ill and you need the water reports from the last month to help determine what the problem is. Fish, spiders, I'm user they are more used to fish inquiries.

 

[Talkenlate04]

Not one new case today when I got home. I am not ready to call anything, but at least it seems to be slowing.

 

[DrAce]

No, Dr. Ace:

You missed the operative word "diseases." We're talking pathogens here and pathogen control. If it's a toxin it's likely gone by now unless it's bioaccumulated in the food supply. If it's a pathogen we have a lot to worry about.

And the vector is the important thing now. If we know what it is we don't necessarily know how to control it but if we can isolate the vector it's being spread by we can quarantine and control it effectively. Once it's controlled we have the luxury of figuring out exactly what it is.

And, yes we *can* rule out water and foodborne disease for the moment. Yes, it's not 100% certain but it's a good start and a solid footing to investigate further. In case you haven't noticed, Talkenlate doesn't have the luxury of waiting around till he's 100% certain.

Also, I'm still not convinced whatever it was is airborne just for the simple fact that it infected his slings first. Generally slings are so small they can't have significant airholes and thus would be more insulated from airborne toxins and pathogens than the more mature spiders. But it's still a possibility especially if the toxin is a gas rather than a suspended liquid or dust ect...
...

Sam,

Allow me to introduce you to the word disease:
Disease, -noun.
1. a disordered or incorrectly functioning organ, part, structure, or system of the body resulting from the effect of genetic or developmental errors, infection, poisons, nutritional deficiency or imbalance, toxicity, or unfavorable environmental factors; illness; sickness; ailment.
2. any abnormal condition in a plant that interferes with its vital physiological processes, caused by pathogenic microorganisms, parasites, unfavorable environmental, genetic, or nutritional factors, etc.
3. any harmful, depraved, or morbid condition, as of the mind or society: His fascination with executions is a disease.
4. decomposition of a material under special circumstances: tin disease.
–verb (used with object) 5. to affect with disease; make ill.
[Middle English disese, from Old French : des-, dis- + aise, ease; see ease.]
(from dictionary.com).

Basically, anything that isn't biologically working properly could be labelled a disease. It doesn't have to be an infection, a toxin, a gene, or basically any one factor. It's just something causing something else to not work correctly.

So what was the point of that?! It does NOT have to be a pathogen, by any stretch, and it does NOT have to be a toxin.

You have ABSOLUTELY NO basis to be dismissing the factors you are dismissing... AT ALL.

Infact, the small outburst is equally fitting with a poorly transmitted bacteria or virus as with a locally acting toxin. There are countless examples of small localised outbreaks (particularly when controlled in the expert fashion as Ryan did here) - Bubonic Plague, Ebola, Bird Flu, SARS, Haemoragic fever to name five that immediately spring to mind...
Equally, a toxin transmitted in the air, but which didn't get far could equally give the 'symptoms' that we are seeing.
Similarly with water, or food.

You even go so far as to saying that nailing down the vector is important, then dismissing two of them for no reason.

You also seem to not understand the idea of a volume to surface ratio. Small creatures, including early stages of development, have increased respiration (generally) compared to older ones. That's completely consistant with spiderlings getting affected first.
You can read more of this effect here, or here (The Lancet May 2, 1998;351:1308–1311).

So in short, there is absolutely no reasoning or logic to your methods... certainly none that can be grounded in facts.

 

[DrAce]

I feed mine a combination of organic dog food with no artificial additives and commercial cricket food, like Flukers makes. That way they can't be exposed to any harmful chemicals.

Although they can be exposed to nasty bacterial toxins like botulinum...

Clostridium botulinum loves living on meat, particularly canned. Interestingly it is a known neurotoxin... one of the very same symptoms which we've been discussing here...

 

[Moltar]

I came late to this thread because i hadn't been online for a few days. I haven't added anything till now just because I haven't thought of anything that hasn't already been said...

BUT... i have thought of something now that i'm surprised hasn't been directly addressed. (Or maybe it was and I missed it)

What do you think of the possibility that you unknowingly encountered a harmful chemical during your day-to-day activities that you brought home on your clothes or hands? Was there a point preceeding the outbreak where you worked specifically and only with the effected slings? Perhaps without washing your hands or changing your clothes?

I'm imagining a scenario where you're in a store that had a roach problem, they sprayed raid on the counter and didn't clean it well (or at all). You come in, lean on the counter, buy a milky way and then go home and feed all your P regalis slings transferring said toxin to their little vials... Sound plausible?

 

[Talkenlate04]

Ehhh not really no. I have a desk job. Nothing to exciting, and 0 exposure to chemicals in day to day events.

 

[Moltar]

Well, worth a shot. I think it's still a possibility that this happened and you were completely unaware of any exposure. Of course, there are about 600 other possibilities too...

I'm glad the spread seems to have slowed. I'm increasingly of the opinion that what we refer to as "dyskinetic syndrome" is just a set of symptoms that are common to tarantulas under an assortment of different maladies. Not unlike how we humans get a fever, chills, vomit, etc when our bodies are battling any of a very wide assortment of problems.

I'm crossing my fingers for you, hope the worst is passed.

 

[AubZ]

Yeah, glad there are no new cases, but would still be nice to know how it happened.
I also just find it wierd that nearly everyone of your T's have been exposed to the same elements(water, food, subs etc., yet 99%+ are uninfected.

 

[Travis K]

does your cat have a flea or tick collar, or been treated for such?

This baffles me cause your T room is SOOOO CLEAN, and your Ts are so very well taken care of.:?

 

[SRirish]

All of the regalis slings from that sac are out of the T room now. There were two other species affected now. So the total is.......

22 regalis slings, 1 P. metallica, 1 P. ornata, 1 P. formosa, and 1 A. Minatrix.

Although i have absolutely no experience with D.S. I find it interesting that all the slings that were "infected" are arboreal.

Are there any terrestrial slings that have been showing D.S. signs?

Are there any terrestrial slings or adults that were in the same room as the unlucky pokies?

This is just something that came to mind when looking at the comment.

Hope that this turns for the better!!

 

[AubZ]

How did you clean the containers that the slings were in? Were they all cleaned at the same time with same materials? Wondering if they maybe never had something in them that triggered this??

 

[Talkenlate04]

The vials used came straight from the box. But I doubt it was something on the vials because only some of the Ts affected where even in the vials. As of this morning there were no new cases to report. I hope I am at the end of this outbreak. I did lower the room temp as well just in case whatever this was preferred warmer temps. The temp drop seemed to directly affect the number of cases I was seeing.

 

[Projecht13]

thats good news that no more died overnight, this is one of the strangest things ive recently heard of. Sucks you have to deal with it:wall: and geez what are you waiting on hurry up and fix it i wanna buy some t's

lol jk! good luck



Br1anstewart@hotmail.com

 

[GailC]

Damn shame this has happened. I have nothing really helpful to say as I couldn't even begin to know what the cause is but I'm concerned about the food you feed the roaches and the long term affect.
A lot of chicken food has antibiotics added, also chemicals to induce laying/growing in the chickens and possibly steroids. Its usually the pelleted/mash type of food that are "supplemented"
I've raised chickens for years and I won't even feed that crap to the chickens, I've also heard of people having roach problems when fed on chicken food.
You can buy 40 LB bags of Purina cricket food, most feed stores can special order it for around $20-$25. I've been using it for two yrs now and the roaches are doing well.

 

[Talkenlate04]

I buy organic feed that has no chemical additives. Been using it for a few years now with no problems. But I might look into other feeds anyway.

 

[Talkenlate04]

I am just curious.......... does anyone think that lowering the temps could be responsible for stopping this? Maybe the "virus" or whatever it is needed to be warmer to thrive? Just throwing out ideas I guess.

 

[DrAce]

It's possible, but very unlikely. Some viruses are sensitive to 'normal' temperatures, others are not. I don't think it'll help. It may even stress out the spiders in a bad way.

 

[Anastasia]

I am just curious.......... does anyone think that lowering the temps could be responsible for stopping this? Maybe the "virus" or whatever it is needed to be warmer to thrive? Just throwing out ideas I guess.

That could be possible, I also dont keep temps over 76deg
dont really think its need to be